more fun to drive

Wait maybe I am reading this wrong but are you complaining you couldn't solo a tank in a milita fit?

I destroyed a tank last night. Well that's not entirely true - WE destroyed a tank, all six of us, including another tank. It took 4 players with swarms to get the tank to retreat, and by chance a Forge gunner was on the other side of the bridge firing with a clear line of sight on the retreating tank, and even after this, a blueberry tank gave chase and managed to finish it off. Six people - one tank.

First of all, this seems like a high ratio of AV / Tank.

If we start looking at numbers:

- opposing team deploys a tank -> you deploy 4 AV (assuming they are coordinated and well equipped)
OR you deploy a tank of equal strength

- opposing team deploys two tanks -> you deploy 8 AV (if they are to be countered simultaneously)
OR you deploy two tanks

Naturally, the side fielding AV now has a reduced anti-infantry capacity. To level this, they can either deploy tanks OR not deploy AV at all - but thereby losing their anti-vehicle capacity, leaving an unstoppable anti-infantry machine roaming the map faster than any infantry can cover.

What this has done has created a type of zero-sum game: If I can deploy more vehicles than you, then I have the advantage on the field.

So now my side races to deploy as many vehicles as is allowed before you can deploy yours, and capitalize on those gains with the massive speed these provide (I can transport small numbers of infantry too, which will be used for capturing objectives if necessary, but now the infantry are peripheral to the action).

This has effectively transformed an INFANTRY based game into a VEHICLE based game, which it isn't or else there would be no limit on the number of vehicles we could deploy and also the terrain isn't entirely optimised for vehicles (numerous indoor areas, although last night I saw creative driving that put them in areas they previously could not go).

It's clear the current situation isn't optimal. Admiringly, the community has come up with a sandbox solution to a design issue - attaching RE's to LAV's and using these as missiles. It's pretty inspiring to see people try it, but it's very touch and go (tank just speeds out of the way, LAV gets destroyed, etc.) Having said that, I think it shows there is a disparity when people are creating their own AV solutions when those that are exclusively meant to destroy vehicles just simply do not work.

I'll leave the community to suggest solutions that don't swing the pendulum back to the other extreme -> one man Anti-vehicle killing machines... this is not ideal either. I feel we haven't found the sweet spot yet, but feel free to suggest your fixes.

Keep it constructive please. :)

Upset your crutch doesn't work as well anymore? Maybe you should squad with a competent tanker.

Let's see... you're complaining that MLT costs less than PRO?

I don't want to add more fuel to the flames right now but the changes have improved dust much more than any other point release to date, if I were to explain this with new eden logic (which I must because some of you are still unfamilliar with it) would look like this:

Let's take scout suits as frigs, lightest suits in the game that would make assaults,logis cruisers and heavies battlecruisers.

With the current skillset and modules vehicles in Dust resemble capitals in eve than anything else; different skills that affect differnt modules , separate command and core skills and vice versa, but the HAVs in dust seem to be like battleships now more than ever, the closed beta vets will remember the surya and the sagaris , they were supposed to have siege mods, but it was more like the bastion mod in the 'marauders' in EVE(!).

So you are saying than it is hard for you to take out a battleship/dread with inferior gear and tactics and claim that it is wrong somehow; this is in no way a personal attack but if you think you can take out a target several leagues above you without thought nor tactics you are gravely mistaken.

To, perhaps make it easier to deal with tanks, get a tank of your own.
It will make life much better for you, unless you have not a notion of how different vehicles are to dropsuits and their different pros and cons don't incite discussions absent purpose.

If you have a proper reason to why you are right please let me know.

the AR is above all other small arms in all categories

What's wrong with a tank being its own best counter?

Get this, this isn't Call of Duty: Space Edition. If you want no vehicles, go play Call of Duty.

Guess what.................. the AR is above all other small arms in all categories, except for range, in which only the sniper rifle has it beat.

How about an AV fit that costs the same ISK and SP as a comparable HAV and CAN kill it?

Anyone?

What makes you think I'm a bad player?

This was never an infantry-only or vehicle-only game. That kind of mindset poisoned the whole playerbase, and led to the near lifetime of nerfs that tanks suffered.

Also, how is it unfair to force you to take out AV? That's a childish thing to say.

What's wrong with a tank being its own best counter?

Because what other people post is insane.

Nuclear baseballs? Mining equipment more powerful than a gun that has a range measured in miles? Homing AV that still has rendering issues?

I know who's biased, and it's not us.

None of you ever provide a reason as to why tanks shouldn't be their own best counter. What should CCP balance this game on? Ambush? Or Faction Warfare and Planetary Conquest? Should they balance this on the thought that each team will have tanks, or that one team will have 5 and the other none, plus no AV, and make them weak accordingly?

You're not a tanker so you wouldn't understand.

None of you ever provide a reason as to why tanks shouldn't be their own best counter.