DUST Search - This 1.7 tank re-balancing must be a joke.

Tank Missile wrote:

I heard from a lot of people that ammunition in vehicles would lead to, "more meaningful tank vs tank combat." And now it all boils down to who has the most SP.

Did you max out the skill that increases active module duration by 5% per level? Even though that redtank over there is better at this game than you, and has fitted his tank exactly the same as you, he has only gotten that skill to 3, so his active module will last less time, and you will be able to kill him once his mods run out, and yours are still going. If you both survive the encounter and run away from one another, did you max the skill that reduces active module cooldown by 5%? If so, that redtank only got that skill to 3 as well, so now you can chase after him with all your mods up before his have cooled off. Do both of you run out of ammo in your blaster clips? No problem, you maxed the skill that lets you reload 25% faster, and that redtank didn't have enough SP to even start that skill yet.

I know what many of you are thinking: "But infantry have skills that are very similar, and maxing those out only give you a slight advantage, not an instant Iwin button."

Here lies the problem: TTK. With infantry, TTK is low and reloading faster means nothing if the guy you got into a firefight with is dead before you even empty half your clip. In tanks, where it is nearly impossible to kill a Gunnlogi that has a hardener active in a single blaster magazine, TTK is very high. Now, reloading suddenly becomes VERY important. When your combat is focused around the fact that you must be using active modules, skills that increase that duration literally make your character straight-up more powerful than a character that doesn't have that skill. Not slightly better, but significantly greater in power. What we had before was unbalanced, but this is just a completely different realm from any sort of idea of "balance." The guy with the bigger stick is the one that walks away, the other guy dies. Doesn't matter how l33t your fps skills are, your modules will not last as long as his modules, so now you're screwed.

/rant

MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!

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Ld Collins The Phalanx Inc 82	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:17:00 - [31] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: Ld Collins wrote: It sounds like to me AV is doing its job if there were a tank on the field with you you'd be annihilated. Everyone has their roles to play on the field I placed 10 Proxy mines on the field and waited and a HAV blew up I laid 10 more and another HAV blew up. Do you call that skill. This is a team based game and assuming you took your HAV without any small turrets you assumed you could Solo a tanker with more SP than you? Your argument isn't even sort of making sense anymore. So you are saying that ineffectually shooting at my god-tank is the job of AV? Getting back to the topic of HAV vs HAV, you also think that I am somehow supposed to know that the other tank has more SP than me? How would I know that? STD vs PRO modules don't actually show a visible difference, seeing as how they simply have lower CDs. His tank didn't say: this guy has way more SP than you, all it said was: Gunnlogi. Well you said he blew you up then you called in another tank and got blown up again so your argument isn't even sort of making sense. Also Av requires team work or can be done solo with mines.
Ld Collins The Phalanx Inc 82	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:23:00 - [32] - Quote 8213 wrote: Tanks were fine pre 1.7. Good tankers still dominated battlefields. They were a specialty class all onto themselves. Now anyone can use a tank and dominate with it. They've dumbed it down. Tanks are now in the same family as ARs: skilless noob gear... There were very few good tankers pre 1.7 you really needed a massive amount of SP to be good and for new players tanking was a nightmare. Tanking will now become more about team play than ever before. Those vet tankers are really going to lead the way higher Sp will allow them to fit small turrets giving them extra fire power which will turn the tides. Having a crew will be much more vital and the low cost will encourage more tank battles especially in FW. Which is the best thing that could ever happen to tankers.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 328	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:24:00 - [33] - Quote Umm... I killed like 4 proto tanks today, as well as tons others. In a militia railgunsica. That and i almost killed a maddy with 3 clips of cbr8swarmies, and 3 av nades. Tanks are NOT about who has more SP. My 6mill sp tanker alt has 3 different setups to work with. First match, i skilled rails to 1, shield stuff to 1, and reload to 1. Killed 2 maddys, a sica and a gunny. One had an ion cannon. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I haz knife. Me get steak?
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 400	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:59:00 - [34] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Message from Godin: Just like it is in EVE. Whoever has the best skills, the best gear, and the best tactic, or a combo of the three (or one of them being skewed ridiculously in your favor) wins. Get over it. Welcome to new Eden. It's about to make you it's ***** In EVE you don't have to manually target enemies, they just auto-lock and fire. Accuracy is an entirely new front for this. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Jason Pearson 3265	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:41:00 - [35] - Quote Actually, it's not such a major increase, it's worthwhile sure, but for example.. You have the two skills, Core Grid Management increases the recharge rate for your active modules by 5% per level, so a little faster and Engine Core Calibration increase the duration of your active modules by 5% per level Let's look at a Complex Shield Hardener, it has a active duration of 24 seconds and a cooldown of 60 seconds Level 0 AD: 24 - CD: 60 Level 1 AD: 25.2 - CD: 57 Level 2 AD: 26.4 - CD: 54 Level 3 AD: 27.6 - CD: 51 Level 4 AD: 28.8 - CD: 48 Level 5 AD: 30 - CD: 45 So sure, you shave off 15 seconds from the cooldown and you get a full extra 6 seconds if the skills are maxed, the vet has a slight advantage and can maintain the fight a little longer, but if the lower SP player is smart he knows he needs to activate his modules AFTER the enemy, to make sure he survives and his enemy doesnt.. (Forgive me if any numbers are wrong, I've got the flu, am dying and I've been tanking all night) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 824	Posted - 2013.12.11 09:54:00 - [36] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: I heard from a lot of people that ammunition in vehicles would lead to, "more meaningful tank vs tank combat." And now it all boils down to who has the most SP. Did you max out the skill that increases active module duration by 5% per level? Even though that redtank over there is better at this game than you, and has fitted his tank exactly the same as you, he has only gotten that skill to 3, so his active module will last less time, and you will be able to kill him once his mods run out, and yours are still going. If you both survive the encounter and run away from one another, did you max the skill that reduces active module cooldown by 5%? If so, that redtank only got that skill to 3 as well, so now you can chase after him with all your mods up before his have cooled off. Do both of you run out of ammo in your blaster clips? No problem, you maxed the skill that lets you reload 25% faster, and that redtank didn't have enough SP to even start that skill yet. I know what many of you are thinking: "But infantry have skills that are very similar, and maxing those out only give you a slight advantage, not an instant Iwin button." Here lies the problem: TTK. With infantry, TTK is low and reloading faster means nothing if the guy you got into a firefight with is dead before you even empty half your clip. In tanks, where it is nearly impossible to kill a Gunnlogi that has a hardener active in a single blaster magazine, TTK is very high. Now, reloading suddenly becomes VERY important. When your combat is focused around the fact that you must be using active modules, skills that increase that duration literally make your character straight-up more powerful than a character that doesn't have that skill. Not slightly better, but significantly greater in power. What we had before was unbalanced, but this is just a completely different realm from any sort of idea of "balance." The guy with the bigger stick is the one that walks away, the other guy dies. Doesn't matter how l33t your fps skills are, your modules will not last as long as his modules, so now you're screwed. /rant You know what this makes me think of? Did you max out that skill that gives you a passive armor bonus of 5% per level? Even though that redguy over there is better at this game than you, and has fitted his dropsuit the same as you, he has only gotten his skill to 3, so his armor reserves will last less time, and you will be able to kill him once his armor runs out, and you are still going. If both of you survive the encounter and run away from one another, did you max out the skill that increases repair mod efficacy by 5%? If so, that redguy only got that skill to 3 as well, so now you can chase after him will all of your armor up before his are back up. Do you both run out of ammo in your blaster rifle clips? No problem, you maxed out the skill that lets you reload 15% faster, and that redguy didn't have enough SP to even start that skill yet. TTK for infantry needs to be closer to what it is for tanks (not QUITE that long, but about halfway between tanks and what it is now). But that aside, tanks are tactical. You work with your squad to find other tanks and get the jump on them, or you fit an active scanner so you know when you are about to come around a corner on one. If you get the drop on a higher SP player you increase your chances, and if you ACTUALLY WORK WITH YOUR SQUAD to kill the enemy tank, there is no tank you cannot kill with less SP. Teamwork beats out SP, and when that fails you have to rely on tactics. With infantry, you can put a 20,000,000SP player head to head with a 500,000SP player 1v1, and 9 times out of 10 the 20,000,000SP player will win because of SP investment alone, however using tactics and playing smart let's militia suits drop proto suits every day in Dust. Especially with the introduction of these new nitro boosters stats, tank combat has gotten FAR more tactical. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Bubba Brown Militaires Sans Jeux 224	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:40:00 - [37] - Quote haven't played in months did they ever make matchmaking not **** so 12mil sp veterans aren't constantly paired with 2mil sp newbies fresh from the academy?
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 957	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:55:00 - [38] - Quote Its all bout who has more skill.......... points Prt SL, SCR, SR . ADV FGs, MDs, LaZor, KNs. Gunnlogi, Falchion, Python, Caldari LDS. (+require) Prt L. Am, Adv HVY, LGS
Ld Collins The Phalanx Inc 86	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:43:00 - [39] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Actually, it's not such a major increase, it's worthwhile sure, but for example.. You have the two skills, Core Grid Management increases the recharge rate for your active modules by 5% per level, so a little faster and Engine Core Calibration increase the duration of your active modules by 5% per level Let's look at a Complex Shield Hardener, it has a active duration of 24 seconds and a cooldown of 60 seconds Level 0 AD: 24 - CD: 60 Level 1 AD: 25.2 - CD: 57 Level 2 AD: 26.4 - CD: 54 Level 3 AD: 27.6 - CD: 51 Level 4 AD: 28.8 - CD: 48 Level 5 AD: 30 - CD: 45 So sure, you shave off 15 seconds from the cooldown and you get a full extra 6 seconds if the skills are maxed, the vet has a slight advantage and can maintain the fight a little longer, but if the lower SP player is smart he knows he needs to activate his modules AFTER the enemy, to make sure he survives and his enemy doesnt.. (Forgive me if any numbers are wrong, I've got the flu, am dying and I've been tanking all night) Actually this is not entirely true the noob tankers are using militia fits or racial fits but they cannot fit modules that can best a more experienced tanker. For example a soma has 2 high 2 low and a maddy has 2 high 3 low. They are able to fit similar fits and have the same amount of armor and shield but the maddy can fit one small turret and a damage mod plus and ion cannon with enhanced and complex mods. If the maddy has another pilot inside his tank the only way a soma would kill that tank is if approached from behind. Or a maddy with experience can fit 2 damage mods and complex mods with an ion cannon and pretty much incinerate any tank in its path even with hardeners activated. Yesterday I spawned in my maddy with 2 damage mods and another tank saw my tank being delivered by the rvd and tried to blow it up before I got in. He did some pretty decent damage but the minute I got in my tank I applied my hardener and both damage mods and I blow his tank into dust.


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