DUST Search - Why does the AR have the worst variants?

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Korvin Lomont wrote:

First of all the GAR has no advantage over the other Rifles any longer all have roughly the same damage output while the GAR has the lowest range.

At the moment, a GEK will perform on basically equal footing against ANY other Rifle's Assault variant. Duvolle outclasses all the other Assault variant Rifles in the game. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Why? Because the Assault variant is the Gallente specialty.

Quote:

And please compare the Gallente breach with the RR and tell me that there is a slightly difference Shocked

and carry on with the Tac compared to the SCR and finally look at the burst (well i think the burst is closer to the CR than the other variants are to their counterparts)

Uhhh... Breach. Yeah, saying "underwhelming" about that is a slight exaggeration of its value. I'll agree that one needs a buff. But the point stands that with SP invested into only one AR tree, it HAS to be Gallente if you want more than one option that isn't an Assault variant.

Flexibility is a valuable trait in itself in many cases. None of the other Rifle types let you - with only one set of skills trained - switch from Burst to Tactical to sort-of-Breach-but-not-really. It's really more of an advantage in SP efficiency than anything else.

I'm not saying they have the balance perfect as-is, just that it isn't as far off as some people seem to be claiming in this thread.

Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.

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DeadlyAztec11 2704	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:39:00 - [1] - Quote The Breach AR, Burst AR and now the TAR are mediocre. Though, from what I hear all the assault variants of the other variants are very much so competitive. Why is this? I expected the variants to be good at there Empire's range type. So all Gallante weapons would be really competitive at CQC range, the Caldari would have the best Long range variants and the Amarr and Minmatar would have the best midrange weapons with differences in there handling (precision vs. ROF). Anybody else agree that variants shouldn't be useless watered down versions of other weapons, but weapons in their own right that provide players with weapons that are still competitive by providing different characteristics? Discuss. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1256	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:41:00 - [2] - Quote At least you have more thank two and they suck because they're blaster tech copies of the other races rifles. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 779	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:41:00 - [3] - Quote Nope *CALDARI MASTER RACE*
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1242	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:41:00 - [4] - Quote I have to say it again: I find it very worrying that people are saying the AR is underpowered compared to the new rifles after it got a buff. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 755	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:42:00 - [5] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Breach AR, Burst AR and now the TAR are mediocre. Though, from what I hear all the assault variants of the other variants are very much so competitive. Why is this? I expected the variants to be good at there Empire's range type. So all Gallante weapons would be really competitive at CQC range, the Caldari would have the best Long range variants and the Amarr and Minmatar would have the best midrange weapons with differences in there handling (precision vs. ROF). Anybody else agree that variants shouldn't be useless watered down versions of other weapons, but weapons in their own right that provide players with weapons that are still competitive by being different. AR was king in 1.6 now its time to let other weapons shine. Rail rifle can out range AR and assault combat rifle can out DPS AR... Please don't start this. It's counter productive. There are many other weapons that need to be balanced before CCP pays attention to the weapon that carried KING in its name for the past couple of months. Plasma Cannon Advocate
DeadlyAztec11 2704	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:47:00 - [6] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I have to say it again: I find it very worrying that people are saying the AR is underpowered compared to the new rifles after it got a buff. I am not talking about the regular full auto AR. I am talking about the variants. As it stands the Full Auto variants of the other variants are extremely competitive. The full auto Scrambler Rifle is extremely lethal. I don't understand why people are alright with the assault Scrambler/Combat/Rail Rifle being competitive but are against the AR having competitive variants. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 16	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:48:00 - [7] - Quote I find it hard to believe that someone is complaining about one of the guns that has the most variants... Minmatar Logisis
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4593	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:55:00 - [8] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I have to say it again: I find it very worrying that people are saying the AR is underpowered compared to the new rifles after it got a buff. So what if it got a buff? That just shows how ridiculously powerful the new weapons are, if even after a buff they're still better. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Joel II X Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 313	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:56:00 - [9] - Quote lee corwood wrote: I find it hard to believe that someone is complaining about one of the guns that has the most variants... I did, too, until I took an ar-... Actually, yeah, until I took an AR variant and saw that op is right. Burst is nothing compared to CR. Tactical needs to havea better look at and the normal AR is... balanced (Thanks to the addition of more op Rifles). This is Rifle514 now. I saw a dude carrying a Federation plasma cannon, though (on the Caldari side o.o). He wasn't around for very long :/
DeadlyAztec11 2705	Posted - 2013.12.11 03:58:00 - [10] - Quote lee corwood wrote: I find it hard to believe that someone is complaining about one of the guns that has the most variants... Let us look at the Rifles like medals. Each race has a Gold medal, there regular rifle, then every race except the Gallante have a Silver medal, their assault variant. Meanwhile the Gallante has one gold medal and three bronze, the variants. I also know that CCP nerfed the TAR again because it was supposedly too strong, but yet they are fine with the assault variants being competitive. It just doesn't make sense when you get right down to it. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.

lee corwood The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 17	Posted - 2013.12.11 04:06:00 - [11] - Quote Joel II X wrote: lee corwood wrote: I find it hard to believe that someone is complaining about one of the guns that has the most variants... I did, too, until I took an ar-... Actually, yeah, until I took an AR variant and saw that op is right. Burst is nothing compared to CR. Tactical needs to havea better look at and the normal AR is... balanced (Thanks to the addition of more op Rifles). This is Rifle514 now. I saw a dude carrying a Federation plasma cannon, though (on the Caldari side o.o). He wasn't around for very long :/ I think since 'uprising 1.5' this game has been Rifle514. I'm glad I used cheap suits today to try out the CR. My kill feed looked like: Rail Rifle, Rail Rifle, Rail Rifle, duvolle rifle, rail rifle....with a splatter of CRs in there. Rail seems to be the fav. Minmatar Logisis
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1242	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:07:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: I have to say it again: I find it very worrying that people are saying the AR is underpowered compared to the new rifles after it got a buff. So what if it got a buff? That just shows how ridiculously powerful the new weapons are, if even after a buff they're still better. Yeah... Cat, I think you missed the point there. You just repeated the exact sentiment of the post you quoted. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 65	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:09:00 - [13] - Quote So the best combat rifle is an Assault combat rifle... sounds like assault rifles are still king. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Piercing Serenity Fatal Absolution 453	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:12:00 - [14] - Quote I thought it was: Galente have the best rapid fire:damage assault rifle - Duvolle wins that Ammar have the best Tactical rifle variant - Imperial Scrambler Rifle Minmitar has the best burst rifle variant - CR Caldari has the best Breech variant - RR From there, every other race tries to copy each other, but their copies are worse than the original. So the galante Burst rifle will always be worse than the minny one. The RR will beat out the breach AR, and the scrambler rifle beats TAR That's what I've heard anyway DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Cosgar ParagonX 8525	Posted - 2013.12.11 06:26:00 - [15] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: So the best combat rifle is an Assault combat rifle... sounds like assault rifles are still king. Except the standard combat rifle is so much better. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
HYENAKILLER X aggressive type 379	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:01:00 - [16] - Quote The tac ar is not to shabby if you fight in an organized squad. The breach ar is dirt though and the burst ar is plenty good with damage mods the combat only has auto fire on it. You are welcome for my leadership *Proven Aggressive Type
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2010	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:02:00 - [17] - Quote The TAC and BURST are PLACEHOLDER GUNS added by a team working on dust 514 over a year ago. They are suppose to be removed. Where is that post I made...
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 537	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:05:00 - [18] - Quote Lol people complaining about the worst AR.
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2010	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:17:00 - [19] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1425579#post1425579 I tried to tell them and I got more likes and any post in the thread but you know how CCP feel about player feedback.
Sleepy Zan 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 2926	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:26:00 - [20] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Breach AR, Burst AR and now the TAR are mediocre. Though, from what I hear all the assault variants of the other variants are very much so competitive. Why is this? I expected the variants to be good at there Empire's range type. So all Gallante weapons would be really competitive at CQC range, the Caldari would have the best Long range variants and the Amarr and Minmatar would have the best midrange weapons with differences in there handling (precision vs. ROF). Anybody else agree that variants shouldn't be useless watered down versions of other weapons, but weapons in their own right that provide players with weapons that are still competitive by being different. AR was king in 1.6 now its time to let other weapons shine. Rail rifle can out range AR and assault combat rifle can out DPS AR... Please don't start this. It's counter productive. There are many other weapons that need to be balanced before CCP pays attention to the weapon that carried KING in its name for the past couple of months. So what your saying is, in order not to be counter productive we have to ignore the weapons that were previously considered "KING" so that we can give other weapons the role. Which inevitably starts an ongoing cycle. ....genius the Nunc Stans Soldier

Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 980	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:30:00 - [21] - Quote I'm hoping it's just CCP rushing things out and not giving a damn about balance and will get around to rebalancing PAR so it becomes a short-medium range CQC king again.
HYENAKILLER X aggressive type 380	Posted - 2013.12.11 07:32:00 - [22] - Quote Put a scope on a gek and these new guns disappear. the Combat rifle isnt half as good as rail rifle and the rail rifle basically shoots you itself in cqc. But I can only see getting rid of breach ar. That thing is pure turd. Literally I took a dump and it scanned at 56 dmg per round. You are welcome for my leadership *Proven Aggressive Type
DeadlyAztec11 2711	Posted - 2013.12.11 10:03:00 - [23] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: The TAC and BURST are PLACEHOLDER GUNS added by a team working on dust 514 over a year ago. They are suppose to be removed. Where is that post I made... They are not removing the variants! You know they already confirmed they are working on variants for the New rifles. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 824	Posted - 2013.12.11 11:17:00 - [24] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I have to say it again: I find it very worrying that people are saying the AR is underpowered compared to the new rifles after it got a buff. TTK man, it's all on the.... huurrk! Not gonna change the subject.... Not gonna... change the subject.... not... gonna.... change.... the.... subject..... MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Seigfried Warheit 99	Posted - 2013.12.11 11:39:00 - [25] - Quote They are "watered down versions" cause they were just place holders for the other races rifles...if they were just as good as the real versions why skill into the other races? Just skill into AR and you get all of them for less sp cost...also the blaster rifles are really competitive in cqc......tears you to shreds..got torn up by duvolle ealier..(cant spell the name right :/ )
DeadlyAztec11 2713	Posted - 2013.12.11 11:42:00 - [26] - Quote Seigfried Warheit wrote: They are "watered down versions" cause they were just place holders for the other races rifles...if they were just as good as the real versions why skill into the other races? Just skill into AR and you get all of them for less sp cost...also the blaster rifles are really competitive in cqc......tears you to shreds..got torn up by duvolle ealier..(cant spell the name right :/ ) The Duvolle is not- I repeat, NOT a variant! I am talking about the Creodron Breach and Allotek Burst. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4121	Posted - 2013.12.11 12:45:00 - [27] - Quote Gallente Assault Rifle - standard model is an Assault variant. Best in its class. Caldari Rail Rifle - standard model is a Breach variant. Best in its class. Amarr Scrambler Rifle - standard model is a Tactical variant. Best in its class. Minmatar Combat RIfle - standard model is a Burst variant. Best in its class. Every other race gets their standard model and an Assault variant. Gallente get their Assault model as standard and variants competing with ALL the other race's models. Why is this a big deal? YOU ONLY NEED TO TRAIN ONE SKILL TO USE ALL OF THEM AT PEAK EFFECTIVENESS. The individual weapons are (very slightly) underwhelming compared with their competition for the same reason the other AR Assault variants are less impressive than the standard Gallente Rifle. The slight increase in underwhelming-ness is due to the adaptability of Gallente tech.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 315	Posted - 2013.12.11 12:46:00 - [28] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: lee corwood wrote: I find it hard to believe that someone is complaining about one of the guns that has the most variants... Let us look at the Rifles like medals. Each race has a Gold medal, there regular rifle, then every race except the Gallante have a Silver medal, their assault variant. Meanwhile the Gallante has one gold medal and three bronze, the variants. I also know that CCP nerfed the TAR again because it was supposedly too strong, but yet they are fine with the assault variants being competitive. It just doesn't make sense when you get right down to it. Its more like the gallente have silver and bronze....
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 315	Posted - 2013.12.11 12:50:00 - [29] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Gallente Assault Rifle - standard model is an Assault variant. Best in its class. Caldari Rail Rifle - standard model is a Breach variant. Best in its class. Amarr Scrambler Rifle - standard model is a Tactical variant. Best in its class. Minmatar Combat RIfle - standard model is a Burst variant. Best in its class. Every other race gets their standard model and an Assault variant. Gallente get their Assault model as standard and variants competing with ALL the other race's models. Why is this a big deal? YOU ONLY NEED TO TRAIN ONE SKILL TO USE ALL OF THEM AT PEAK EFFECTIVENESS. The individual weapons are (very slightly) underwhelming compared with their competition for the same reason the other AR Assault variants are less impressive than the standard Gallente Rifle. The slight increase in underwhelming-ness is due to the adaptability of Gallente tech. First of all the GAR has no advantage over the other Rifles any longer all have roughly the same damage output while the GAR has the lowest range. And please compare the Gallente breach with the RR and tell me that there is a slightly difference and carry on with the Tac compared to the SCR and finally look at the burst (well i think the burst is closer to the CR than the other variants are to their counterparts)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4121	Posted - 2013.12.11 13:00:00 - [30] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: First of all the GAR has no advantage over the other Rifles any longer all have roughly the same damage output while the GAR has the lowest range. At the moment, a GEK will perform on basically equal footing against ANY other Rifle's Assault variant. Duvolle outclasses all the other Assault variant Rifles in the game. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Why? Because the Assault variant is the Gallente specialty. Quote: And please compare the Gallente breach with the RR and tell me that there is a slightly difference and carry on with the Tac compared to the SCR and finally look at the burst (well i think the burst is closer to the CR than the other variants are to their counterparts) Uhhh... Breach. Yeah, saying "underwhelming" about that is a slight exaggeration of its value. I'll agree that one needs a buff. But the point stands that with SP invested into only one AR tree, it HAS to be Gallente if you want more than one option that isn't an Assault variant. Flexibility is a valuable trait in itself in many cases. None of the other Rifle types let you - with only one set of skills trained - switch from Burst to Tactical to sort-of-Breach-but-not-really. It's really more of an advantage in SP efficiency than anything else. I'm not saying they have the balance perfect as-is, just that it isn't as far off as some people seem to be claiming in this thread.

DeadlyAztec11 2713	Posted - 2013.12.11 13:10:00 - [31] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: First of all the GAR has no advantage over the other Rifles any longer all have roughly the same damage output while the GAR has the lowest range. At the moment, a GEK will perform on basically equal footing against ANY other Rifle's Assault variant. Duvolle outclasses all the other Assault variant Rifles in the game. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Why? Because the Assault variant is the Gallente specialty. Quote: And please compare the Gallente breach with the RR and tell me that there is a slightly difference and carry on with the Tac compared to the SCR and finally look at the burst (well i think the burst is closer to the CR than the other variants are to their counterparts) Uhhh... Breach. Yeah, saying "underwhelming" about that is a slight exaggeration of its value. I'll agree that one needs a buff. But the point stands that with SP invested into only one AR tree, it HAS to be Gallente if you want more than one option that isn't an Assault variant. Flexibility is a valuable trait in itself in many cases. None of the other Rifle types let you - with only one set of skills trained - switch from Burst to Tactical to sort-of-Breach-but-not-really. It's really more of an advantage in SP efficiency than anything else. I'm not saying they have the balance perfect as-is, just that it isn't as far off as some people seem to be claiming in this thread. Garret, we are both agreeing on the same points. I don't think the AR variants should receive buffs right now as that would be unfair. I believe they should get buffed when the other variants are introduced though. That way we can keep everything fair. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2015	Posted - 2013.12.11 14:03:00 - [32] - Quote [quote=Doc Noah]I'm hoping it's just CCP rushing things out and not giving a damn about balance and will get around to rebalancing PAR so it becomes a short-medium range CQC king again.[/quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ozvef7CvQ#t=3600 watch this and understand I DARE YOU
pyramidhead 420 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 217	Posted - 2013.12.11 14:07:00 - [33] - Quote ive been using the creodon breach ar w/ 3 complex damage mods, and beastly is an understatement. very under rated, because the standard and advance version give the breach ar a bad name.


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