DUST Search - Should AV add Debuffs on vehicles?

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Churning in my head a bit on how to make AV 'threatening' to vehicles considering that I just went a round where I parked a maddy and just ate everything shot at me by infantry. (approximately ate about 15 av shots and only got to half armor and didn't have hardener so there may be a number adjustment needed regardless)

As we all know the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth and now the pendulum is back in tank's favor in terms of infantry av vs tanks the problem I honestly feel is that throwing the numbers back is going to constantly just keep the pendulum swinging back and forth.

So what if we gave all the current AV weapons some form of 'debuff' that would hurt the targeted vehicles in ways they don't need to be hurt.

For example a Plasma Cannon shot becomes sticky and does its damage to the attached vehicle (or unlucky infantry) that get directly struck by it?

Forge guns slam so hard they disrupt hardeners biting into a second of effective up time remaining and increasing cooldown by a second for that cycle

AV grenades could lock up vehicle modules from activating. (this would require limiting the grenade to 1 throw)

Swarm Launchers slowing down vehicles?

These are just examples but there are plenty of legs on the stool to kick out aside from HP. like regen, shield delay, sensors, turret cooldown rates, ammo reserves the list goes on. Come up with your own that you might think would make them a viable threat and useful alone or in groups.

AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11176	Posted - 2013.12.10 23:47:00 - [1] - Quote Churning in my head a bit on how to make AV 'threatening' to vehicles considering that I just went a round where I parked a maddy and just ate everything shot at me by infantry. As we all know the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth and now the pendulum is back in tank's favor in terms of infantry av vs tanks the problem I honestly feel is that throwing the numbers back is going to constantly just keep the pendulum swinging back and forth. So what if we gave all the current AV weapons some form of 'debuff' that would hurt the targeted vehicles in ways they don't need to be hurt. For example a Plasma Cannon shot becomes sticky and does its damage to the attached vehicle (or unlucky infantry) that get directly struck by it? Forge guns slam so hard they disrupt hardeners biting into a second of effective up time remaining and increasing cooldown by a second for that cycle AV grenades could lock up vehicle modules from activating. (this would require limiting the grenade to 1 throw) Swarm Launchers slowing down vehicles? These are just examples but there are plenty of legs on the stool to kick out aside from HP. like regen, shield delay, sensors, turret cooldown rates, ammo reserves the list goes on. Come up with your own that you might think would make them a viable threat and useful alone or in groups. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Joel II X Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 309	Posted - 2013.12.10 23:50:00 - [2] - Quote Yes. I still want 200m on my Swarm Launcher due to Tanks' speed. Even with 3 swarm launchers locking on, we can't kill it because it runs away by the time we can get the second lock on.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 448	Posted - 2013.12.10 23:52:00 - [3] - Quote Or, now that active mods are king, EWAR equipment. Grenades that reduce "capacitor" (the time left on the module running). AoE Hives/Webifiers that slow vehicles/nullify nitrus boosts(could be activated when run over at high speed Just a few ideas. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 54	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:00:00 - [4] - Quote No, reduce the speed of vehicles. What was CCP thinking when they increased speed 10 fold. Doubling vehicle speed would have been a significant change. They went way over board.
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 176	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:01:00 - [5] - Quote I support the PLC sticking and applying a damage in a small radius after impact, It's a really good buff for the weapon. Make it do say 50 damage per second for 10 seconds to objects within a 1 foot radius. Don't despawn until after the 10 seconds so you can use multiple shots to block infantry in tight corridors and deal real damage to vehicles thus discouraging vehicles from getting close. Level 18 [======== ] Pure Gallente - Preferred Gamemode: PVE
Volgair Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 300	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:01:00 - [6] - Quote No, These effects would be better served if they were inflicted by new, non-damage based equipment or weapons. That way we could have two forms of man portable AV, Direct Damage and Spec War (e-war), mixing the two will only lead to abuse and cause that "Tank-Infantry pendulum" to have a plum point that is even harder to discern. "Paper is OP, scissor's are fine." -Rock
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 176	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:05:00 - [7] - Quote I would say proxy mines/remote explosives should slow vehicles, more specifically RE's if you preferred Proxys to do other things. Level 18 [======== ] Pure Gallente - Preferred Gamemode: PVE
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 102	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:07:00 - [8] - Quote Its almost like we need something to counter vehicles.... you know like how vehicles (tanks specifically) counter infantry.... Like a Rock to the scissors that is tanks.......
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1487	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:08:00 - [9] - Quote Get ewar in: problem solved "HP needs no buff, certain weapons need nerf. Or else all other become obsolete." GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
RECON BY FIRE Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 320	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:17:00 - [10] - Quote No, put AV damage back where it was, give the Swarm 200 to 300m lock range with 600m travel, and scale the speed back down. Tanks go so fast now it makes my eyes hurt a bit to actually drive one at full speed. Im not sure about forges, probly put them back to pre-nerf as well. I didn't really see much of a problem with them to begin with. Stuff....?

Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1763	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:21:00 - [11] - Quote I'd like my flux grenades to slow down or stop a tank, but that's mostly if CCP plans to keep current tank speed. That or give the swarm launch a alt fire webifier thing to slow down tanks. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 803	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:23:00 - [12] - Quote I don't know about armor tanks, but shield tanks feel really good. I can tank whatever they care to throw at me for 25 seconds after that I'm all squishy and any AV could take me down for 60 seconds. but I have my speed to save my sorry butt. the shield regen is also really good. I don't have to sit out half the match waiting for a passive regen. and I only have 1 mill SP in them so there is much room for improvement! shield tanking... 8/10 will do again. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Alpha 443-6732 266	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:31:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Churning in my head a bit on how to make AV 'threatening' to vehicles considering that I just went a round where I parked a maddy and just ate everything shot at me by infantry. (approximately ate about 15 av shots and only got to half armor and didn't have hardener so there may be a number adjustment needed regardless) As we all know the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth and now the pendulum is back in tank's favor in terms of infantry av vs tanks the problem I honestly feel is that throwing the numbers back is going to constantly just keep the pendulum swinging back and forth. So what if we gave all the current AV weapons some form of 'debuff' that would hurt the targeted vehicles in ways they don't need to be hurt. For example a Plasma Cannon shot becomes sticky and does its damage to the attached vehicle (or unlucky infantry) that get directly struck by it? Forge guns slam so hard they disrupt hardeners biting into a second of effective up time remaining and increasing cooldown by a second for that cycle AV grenades could lock up vehicle modules from activating. (this would require limiting the grenade to 1 throw) Swarm Launchers slowing down vehicles? These are just examples but there are plenty of legs on the stool to kick out aside from HP. like regen, shield delay, sensors, turret cooldown rates, ammo reserves the list goes on. Come up with your own that you might think would make them a viable threat and useful alone or in groups. Webifiers are needed. AV grenade variants that also slow are needed. Infantry based E-War is needed. AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
MRBH1997 Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 51	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:31:00 - [14] - Quote I like the idea of different forms of debuffs and such from AV weapons in some cases it makes sense like plasma it is just a shot of plasma and you'd think it'd have a kind of acidic damage effect. Also the force from forge guns knocking modules out for a longer cool down seems like a cool idea aswell. I do believe being a tanker myself that range should be increased a bit for swarms and that if damage will be this low that there be effects from infantry weapons that make vehicles vulnerable or weak. Something to give infantry a chance or even an advantage at points. CEO of Knights of Ender, Pro Jack of All Traits Corporation Website: http://koe.shivtr.com Skype: MRBH1997
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 4128	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:34:00 - [15] - Quote can we please not the repeat the "dropships and lavs are in a good place against AV, but tanks are a bit OP, lets buff AV. Oh look, now Dropships and lavs are dying too easily, ah well at least tanks are okay" rather than buff av, just do something about tanks specifically, dropships finally feel good again, hell all of the old dropship guys have come out of the woodwork and i have seen nothing but praise so far for the dropship changes. whatever you do, don't buff AV (well maybe buff swarms a tad), reduce tanks speed whatever instead. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
ladwar Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1921	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:36:00 - [16] - Quote always pushing this idea IWS... nothing new here folks. just IWS normal tricks. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1169	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:39:00 - [17] - Quote How about an AV Weapon of some sort that deactivates all modules and reduces speed by 25%? It would do no damage, and using multiple would have the same effect as using one. Make it work like a Proximity Mine. It would use an equipment slot and have a fairly high PG/CPU cost, about as much as a scanner of the same tier. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1264	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:41:00 - [18] - Quote Yes, though I also feel that we should be able to specifically target, tank tracks, lav wheels and dropship thrusters. EWAR mods and Void Grenades too.... Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 900	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:44:00 - [19] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Yes, though I also feel that we should be able to specifically target, tank tracks, lav wheels and dropship thrusters. EWAR mods and Void Grenades too.... Ohhh This is SO much better idea. If it's doable, that is. Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:
The-Errorist 550	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:30:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Churning in my head a bit on how to make AV 'threatening' to vehicles considering that I just went a round where I parked a maddy and just ate everything shot at me by infantry. (approximately ate about 15 av shots and only got to half armor and didn't have hardener so there may be a number adjustment needed regardless) As we all know the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth and now the pendulum is back in tank's favor in terms of infantry av vs tanks the problem I honestly feel is that throwing the numbers back is going to constantly just keep the pendulum swinging back and forth. So what if we gave all the current AV weapons some form of 'debuff' that would hurt the targeted vehicles in ways they don't need to be hurt. For example a Plasma Cannon shot becomes sticky and does its damage to the attached vehicle (or unlucky infantry) that get directly struck by it? Forge guns slam so hard they disrupt hardeners biting into a second of effective up time remaining and increasing cooldown by a second for that cycle AV grenades could lock up vehicle modules from activating. (this would require limiting the grenade to 1 throw) Swarm Launchers slowing down vehicles? These are just examples but there are plenty of legs on the stool to kick out aside from HP. like regen, shield delay, sensors, turret cooldown rates, ammo reserves the list goes on. Come up with your own that you might think would make them a viable threat and useful alone or in groups. Awesome ideas; here's what I would like them to be like: Anti-vehicle grenades - Slow down vehicles Flux grenades and Forgegun shots - Reduce Active duration of modules by 1 second and increase their cooldown by 1 second. Missiles from swarm launchers, remote explosives, and proxy mines - Reduce armor rep rate They should also get a buff to their explosive force, so they can disrupt steering and flight even more. Plasma Cannon shots - Reduce shield regeneration rate The projectiles also becomes sticky and does damage over time to the target that gets directly hit.

Defy Gravity Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 227	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:39:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Churning in my head a bit on how to make AV 'threatening' to vehicles considering that I just went a round where I parked a maddy and just ate everything shot at me by infantry. (approximately ate about 15 av shots and only got to half armor and didn't have hardener so there may be a number adjustment needed regardless) As we all know the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth and now the pendulum is back in tank's favor in terms of infantry av vs tanks the problem I honestly feel is that throwing the numbers back is going to constantly just keep the pendulum swinging back and forth. So what if we gave all the current AV weapons some form of 'debuff' that would hurt the targeted vehicles in ways they don't need to be hurt. For example a Plasma Cannon shot becomes sticky and does its damage to the attached vehicle (or unlucky infantry) that get directly struck by it? Forge guns slam so hard they disrupt hardeners biting into a second of effective up time remaining and increasing cooldown by a second for that cycle AV grenades could lock up vehicle modules from activating. (this would require limiting the grenade to 1 throw) Swarm Launchers slowing down vehicles? These are just examples but there are plenty of legs on the stool to kick out aside from HP. like regen, shield delay, sensors, turret cooldown rates, ammo reserves the list goes on. Come up with your own that you might think would make them a viable threat and useful alone or in groups. I like the idea of the forgegun stoping use of modules. & like sort of an EM effect upon impact with the vehical? Amarr FW Supporter. "I will melt you with my scrambler rifle Minmatar filth!"
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 363	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:39:00 - [22] - Quote Could we get Webs already?!? These are interesting ideas, though I think some simple DoT would be amazing for variants of weapons (and all Plasma Cannons). Why exactly can't they program in Damage over Time abilities? I know a Dev explained it, but, vehicles used to burn, couldn't that programming be modified to do less damage and over X number of seconds. Also adding some form of 'extinguisher' module for vehicles to stop the effect could add some variety. DoT works through Hardners (if hit before hardner was activated) and also cancels out regen, or at least slows it down. I don't act like I know vehicles, I fly ADSs, but, I don't know anything, so mighty tankers, please treat me with pity if you tear this post apart, I just asked 2 questions. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1927	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:42:00 - [23] - Quote Shooting the Main gun reduces the hardeners effect by 1% on blasters, 15% on Rails, and 3% on missiles. Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
The-Errorist 550	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:43:00 - [24] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Shooting the Main gun reduces the hardeners effect by 1% on blasters, 15% on Rails, and 3% on missiles. Bad idea and it isn't even relevant to what the OP is talking about or asking.
The-Errorist 550	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:46:00 - [25] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Could we get Webs already?!? These are interesting ideas, though I think some simple DoT would be amazing for variants of weapons (and all Plasma Cannons). Why exactly can't they program in Damage over Time abilities? I know a Dev explained it, but, vehicles used to burn, couldn't that programming be modified to do less damage and over X number of seconds. Also adding some form of 'extinguisher' module for vehicles to stop the effect could add some variety. DoT works through Hardners (if hit before hardner was activated) and also cancels out regen, or at least slows it down. I don't act like I know vehicles, I fly ADSs, but, I don't know anything, so mighty tankers, please treat me with pity if you tear this post apart, I just asked 2 questions. It's not that easy as taking the burning effect that vehicles had; based on what they said it would require new code which they don't have to time and resources to make (sounds like BS). Also an extinguisher module already existed in the test server and I don't think DoT damage would or should be that deadly to warrant dedicating a module slot to deal with it.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1476	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:48:00 - [26] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Or, now that active mods are king, EWAR equipment. Grenades that reduce "capacitor" (the time left on the module running). AoE Hives/Webifiers that slow vehicles/nullify nitrus boosts(could be activated when run over at high speed Just a few ideas. I like the way you think.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1238	Posted - 2014.03.07 05:05:00 - [27] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Swarm Launchers slowing down vehicles? They already do that... those explosion effects slow down my framerate considerably when I'm in first person view as they pretty much cover up my entire screen with blinding particle effects. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Billi Gene 496	Posted - 2014.03.07 05:28:00 - [28] - Quote 1. webber grenade's/deployable equipment(ala prox mines) AV and AP variants (one type cannot affect both vehicles and infantry[?]) 2. ewar: tracking disruptor handheld equipment, "energy neut" handheld equipment (drains remaining time on active mods.) only affects turrets (installation and vehicle mounted) 3. stackable DoT forge gun variants (low alpha damage, UI warning of DoT for driver), larger clip, faster RoF 1 and 2 together with any other form of AV will reduce blaster tank spam or idiocy. With scouts getting another equipment slot, these would open the door for double scout AV teams, or for a scout to be an advance AV unit, scramming HAV's till the heavy hitters rock up. 3 provides anti redline rail tank answers. >.< Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 809	Posted - 2014.03.07 05:38:00 - [29] - Quote Change AV nades to stop whatever modules are currently active? Something along those lines. Tanks should be nigh unkillable when hardeners are on. It'd be fair for AV nades to force those modules off and make the tank vulnerable as opposed to the crap damage they have now/ Best PVE idea I've seen.
The-Errorist 561	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:47:00 - [30] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Change AV nades to stop whatever modules are currently active? Something along those lines. Tanks should be nigh unkillable when hardeners are on. It'd be fair for AV nades to force those modules off and make the tank vulnerable as opposed to the crap damage they have now/ That, even though isn't doing damage to vehicles, is in my opinion, it's not the best alternative. What if there was an enemy caldari LAV around you that was passive tanking that has a gunner. A non damage dealing grenade that only stops the currently active module, would be useless. However, during tank fights, it would be an "I Win grenade". As proposed my others and I, having AV grenades do damage as well as slowing down vehicle, would be great.



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