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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1251
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Posted - 2013.12.10 22:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm fine with tanks moving like race cars. I watched a tank reverse at 160 m/s a second at least. it looked like a cartoon in fast forward reverse.
If a tank flying along like an LAV in reverse can hit a scout at full run, then there isn't any problems on a technical level to give us scouts back our speed tank. That excuse is nothing but the fail we all knew it was, IWS.
Speed tanking is now just irony.
And on the subject of speed tanking.. gallente is the Kin Cat manufacturer? Well, can the minja have some republic biotics then?
I'm thinking a purple jar of Core meth would do just about right, no?
#shittycoding
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HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4148
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
If a tank can move that fast why can a heavy move fast? The heavy is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with a vehicle and live.
Lmfao |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11175
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scouts have legs
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
753
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
IDEA: Apply rocket propelled rollerskates to scouts!
Parody Dust 514 Lyrics
Vote for Delt
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
248
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gameplay wise, it's because the hitbox of tanks is so large, even at those speeds, when you shoot at it, it will generally not be fast enough to move a significant portion of the animated tank you see outside of the hitbox that causes it to take damage.
Scouts, with a exponentially smaller hitbox, can move out of their hitbox at exponentially smaller speeds.
At least, this is the info I've gathered from the forums and tweets CCP has been doing this last year. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
1251
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Scouts have legs
Not really. They have geometry shaped like legs. But what's your point?
If a tank can hit me at that speed, and I am running- the physics are there for us scouts to be buffed. Because that physics equation goes both ways. It isn't a tank with treads and a scout with legs. It's two groups of polygons. If the tank can hit a small hit box at top speed, then so could a logi firing at the scout at buffed speed.
#shittycoding
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Jason Pearson
3245
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Speed nerf required, don't base balance around a broken thing.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire
Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5787
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Posted - 2013.12.10 23:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
/strokes his knives
Don't worry baby. I won't let CCP hurt you.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT
175
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Posted - 2013.12.11 00:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
How fast would you like them to move ??? They are already CQC kings . Besides their armor and shield limitations no one can catch them ( In the right hands ) and go toe to toe with them . I can't understand what you scout users are looking for . They are the fastest , most mobile and with a shotgun can put up mind blowing numbers so what more do you want ??? They will never be on a level with the other classes of suits but neither are the others a match for them either . All classes have strengths and weaknesses so it seems like you people want the best of both worlds because as soon as stealth comes out that's another thing that will be added to your arsenal .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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Knight Soiaire
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
3720
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Posted - 2013.12.11 00:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:They are already CQC kings
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.......
Wait, were you being serious?
Buff Shotguns
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1261
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Posted - 2013.12.11 02:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:How fast would you like them to move ??? They are already CQC kings . Besides their armor and shield limitations no one can catch them ( In the right hands ) and go toe to toe with them . I can't understand what you scout users are looking for . They are the fastest , most mobile and with a shotgun can put up mind blowing numbers so what more do you want ??? They will never be on a level with the other classes of suits but neither are the others a match for them either . All classes have strengths and weaknesses so it seems like you people want the best of both worlds because as soon as stealth comes out that's another thing that will be added to your arsenal .
What game do YOU play? lol.
I'm not talking about flying at 20 m/s. I'm talking about 10-11. The ability to glass canon at 12ish.
Better and more varied biotics would be cool at some point. A biotic that improved walking and sprint speed perhaps?
#shittycoding
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT
178
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Posted - 2013.12.11 02:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:They are already CQC kings HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ....... Wait, were you being serious?
Yes I am . I'm not talking about against a Heavy and even still with a Prototype Shotgun that's about three to four shots up close . Stop acting like there aren't guys that are EXPERTS in killing with nova knives and shotguns . Please spare me the attempt at humor because you are telling a joke and it not even funny . These guys are serious so I have to be as well .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
3251
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Posted - 2013.12.11 02:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:They are already CQC kings HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ....... Wait, were you being serious? Yes I am . I'm not talking about against a Heavy and even still with a Prototype Shotgun that's about three to four shots up close . Stop acting like there aren't guys that are EXPERTS in killing with nova knives and shotguns . Please spare me the attempt at humor because you are telling a joke and it not even funny . These guys are serious so I have to be as well .
Let me tell you on behalf of scouts... We are NOT the kings of cqc... Hell the HMG HEAVY is still NOT EVEN the king.... Wanna know what is? It's the AR gallente logi with 800 armor
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 3 | Warframe is awesome! | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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Ghost Kaisar
THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED
Dark Taboo
1036
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Posted - 2013.12.11 02:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:They are already CQC kings HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ....... Wait, were you being serious? Yes I am . I'm not talking about against a Heavy and even still with a Prototype Shotgun that's about three to four shots up close . Stop acting like there aren't guys that are EXPERTS in killing with nova knives and shotguns . Please spare me the attempt at humor because you are telling a joke and it not even funny . These guys are serious so I have to be as well .
For the record, Mollerz IS an an expert on Nova Knives, and both Knight and Myself are scouts in excellent standing.
The real king of CQC is the Gal-logi at the moment. No matter how fast we are, or how sneaky we can be, a Gal-Logi will rip a scout in half with his AR if he even gets 1/4th of a chance. No matter how close you get.
We still have claim to highest alpha damage though. Proto Knives eat through dropsuits like butter.
"All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
4051
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Posted - 2013.12.11 02:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
mollerz wrote:I'm fine with tanks moving like race cars. I watched a tank reverse at 160 m/s a second at least. it looked like a cartoon in fast forward reverse.
If a tank flying along like an LAV in reverse can hit a scout at full run, then there isn't any problems on a technical level to give us scouts back our speed tank. That excuse is nothing but the fail we all knew it was, IWS.
Speed tanking is now just irony.
And on the subject of speed tanking.. gallente is the Kin Cat manufacturer? Well, can the minja have some republic biotics then?
I'm thinking a purple jar of Core meth would do just about right, no?
Militia Nitrous is bugged at 100% bonus instead of 10%.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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noob cavman
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
Renegade Alliance
265
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Posted - 2013.12.11 02:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gal logi will end me before I get tje second shot off with my creo shotty. Thats with being sneaky sneaky from behind and him/she not being a dumb arse ie keep walk forward.
My view on knives..... I DON'T KNOW WHAT IM DOING @_@
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DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
3258
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Posted - 2013.12.11 03:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bump
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 3 | Warframe is awesome! | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
779
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Posted - 2013.12.11 03:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Scouts have legs
And tanks have tracks.
CALDARI MASTER RACE
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
357
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Posted - 2013.12.11 03:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:How fast would you like them to move ??? They are already CQC kings . Besides their armor and shield limitations no one can catch them ( In the right hands ) and go toe to toe with them . I can't understand what you scout users are looking for . They are the fastest , most mobile and with a shotgun can put up mind blowing numbers so what more do you want ??? They will never be on a level with the other classes of suits but neither are the others a match for them either . All classes have strengths and weaknesses so it seems like you people want the best of both worlds because as soon as stealth comes out that's another thing that will be added to your arsenal .
I want to be a scout in whatever game this guy is playing...it sounds glorious.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8523
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Posted - 2013.12.11 03:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Gameplay wise, it's because the hitbox of tanks is so large, even at those speeds, when you shoot at it, it will generally not be fast enough to move a significant portion of the animated tank you see outside of the hitbox that causes it to take damage.
Scouts, with a exponentially smaller hitbox, can move out of their hitbox at exponentially smaller speeds.
At least, this is the info I've gathered from the forums and tweets CCP has been doing this last year.
Aim assist.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
214
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Posted - 2013.12.11 03:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
amarr logi with 2 weapons poops on all other 60 bullet, 1 weapon suits |
AfroSunshineY Consequence
R 0 N 1 N
219
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Posted - 2013.12.11 03:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:How fast would you like them to move ??? They are already CQC kings . Besides their armor and shield limitations no one can catch them ( In the right hands ) and go toe to toe with them . I can't understand what you scout users are looking for . They are the fastest , most mobile and with a shotgun can put up mind blowing numbers so what more do you want ??? They will never be on a level with the other classes of suits but neither are the others a match for them either . All classes have strengths and weaknesses so it seems like you people want the best of both worlds because as soon as stealth comes out that's another thing that will be added to your arsenal .
This guy! You had me going! Thought you were serious there for a second.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4113
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Posted - 2013.12.11 04:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
LMAO at someone arguing AGAINST Knight when talking about Scouts.
It's been a LOOOOOOOONG time since I saw that pay off for anyone.
Also, Scouts are pretty close to the required speed. And more importantly, THAT ISN'T HOW HIT DETECTION WORKS. And more importantly still, with the amount I've heard about it, tanks probably need a (slight) speed nerf right now - I can't say that as confidently because I haven't played 1.7 yet - I'm on my second attempt at downloading the patch because the first try errored me out.
But back to hit detection, raw speed isn't all that matters when it comes to hitboxes. Size is also important. Larger hitboxes can move faster without compromising hit detection significantly, because of the nature of how hitboxes work. This is even more true when it's a large static hitbox compared with a smaller multi-sectioned hitbox that needs each part to synchronise its semi-separate movement in conjunction with the body animations. Effectively, you're comparing the main body of the tank and the turret (2 hitboxes total) with the two hitboxes for each leg, one for the torso, 2 for each arm, one for the gun and one of the head of your Dropsuit (11 hitboxes total). A running soldier is 11 TINY hitboxes that need to track and move in tandem with the 11 body part models that are also in motion, both in relation to one another and as absolutes moving through the game-world. Can you see how that might be SLIGHTLY more difficult to manage at high speed than 2 large hitboxes, one of which can rotate around a point and tilt up and down? |
One Eyed King
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2013.12.11 04:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:How fast would you like them to move ??? They are already CQC kings . Besides their armor and shield limitations no one can catch them ( In the right hands ) and go toe to toe with them . I can't understand what you scout users are looking for . They are the fastest , most mobile and with a shotgun can put up mind blowing numbers so what more do you want ??? They will never be on a level with the other classes of suits but neither are the others a match for them either . All classes have strengths and weaknesses so it seems like you people want the best of both worlds because as soon as stealth comes out that's another thing that will be added to your arsenal .
Maybe you are just bad at CQC.
Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.
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mollerz
Minja Scouts
1270
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Posted - 2013.12.11 04:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
@Garret
You didn't explain how hit detection works, and are basically making **** up. Here's the taker no matter the minutia of the customization they put into the unreal engine-
If a tank is moving fast, as is a scout whilst orbiting each other, and the game engine's netcode can calculate successful hits and misses so that the tank can hit the scout- then there should be no problems (outside epic QQ from all the crutch players getting decimated) with the same engine and netcode doing calculations of a gal logi shooting at a scout running faster than said logi.
Also, wait until you load up 1.7 and see tanks whipping around. It will make you  It's pretty jarring. But hey man- I think it's fine. Especially for when maps hopefully get way bigger. I am just saying now that the game engine is demonstrating hitscan is working at calculating small hitboxes at speed, there is no doubt scouts can have their old days if not better speed tank because it is obviously technically feasible. it's a good thing really! it means CCP dudes are getting it optimized.
#shittycoding
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
393
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Posted - 2013.12.11 16:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thats the point of speed tanking....to create a difficult hitbox to hit? I dont see why that is so difficult to understand.
The faster you go, the harder you are to hit. If the netcode is having a hard time keeping up, working as intended.
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Twitch
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