DUST Search - THE SCOUT ISSUE

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

Dengru wrote:

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

DEZKA DIABLO wrote:

I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base?

If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can.

Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game.

when you take into account the armor buffs and how much hp a basic plate gives you with armor upgrades at 4 and above, 110 is not enough. Just look at the description, its says its supposed to be unmatched in melee combat.
Before the various changes in the game, you could actually stack to Mybrofils and do a very decent amount of melee damage, in conjunction with your strafe to mitigate damage.
Now with ppl running around with over 300 armor, even two mybrofils on a min scout is not really that good since thats just 379 damage. I can't imagine someone having wide success doing that with this suit. The melee bonus shouldve always been 20 points higher if they were really trying to make a unmatched melee fighter, like the description states.

I never said that it was enough or even was supposed to be. I never trust the descriptive text on anything in the game because English is usually not the dev's first language who wrote it and if it was then they probably wrote it based upon what they were told the item was supposed to do and NOT what it actually does. Instead I always ignore the "fluff" page and skip over to the actual stats page and make my own judgements based off what it actually does.

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Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1242	Posted - 2013.12.09 18:25:00 - [1] - Quote Which I'm surprised there even is a issue. Even you mmo players have your ninja's classes right? What's their main ability? See FPS games that have the scout class, all have pretty much the same unwritten rule of abilities almost like the AS class does. For in many fps games the scout can be killed very easily. But the trade off to that is that the scout is the only class that has the most OHK abilities. Simple. so where or how is the bloody confusion to what to do with the scout class? I blame the game "no class" system. Yeah.. and so the one main trait is taken from scout, and hence in this game it's gonna be very hard to see why have them around anyway. How you screw up something that's so simple? would OHK knives and actual cloaking (we know why this is not an automatic default for scouts) have changed the way battles were fought? were we have seen scouts all over the field cause of it? No. Scouts are indeed a hard class to play, and not everyone can play em. .....besides not enough ladies to impress in this game now, if scouts numbers increased. just saying. Here enjoy this Alexander Gustafsson vs Jon Jones highlight
trraacx Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 39	Posted - 2013.12.09 18:30:00 - [2] - Quote Scouts are fragile but really a different playing experience. Walking up behind a heavy unseen and shooting them in the back is fun for a change of pace. Just hanging out watching the battle without being noticed is cool. Yesterday I was able to come in behind another scout that had walked up behind a sniper and was meleing him to dreath. It was great shotgunning him to death. Would have been better if I had been a half second quicker and saved the sniper. Next time. It would be pretty easy to unbalance them if they were harder to kill.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 281	Posted - 2013.12.09 18:37:00 - [3] - Quote Dust is about as balanced as a one-legged hooker. Only the hooker sucks much less ****. CCP does not hear your Scoutly pleas of mercy. Instead even more rifles are being added and more nerfs happening to the Scout.
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 142	Posted - 2013.12.09 20:44:00 - [4] - Quote Yea stack armor an damage mods on a minja an a toxin AR ( working as intended)! I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? Nk is becoming less viable on gallente an I even have to charge an strike a extra hit on med frame logistics an heavies an that's with the pro scout an knive pro 4, sg are a joke for damage an lack of ohk power. How many time you sg a dude an he spins that Ar an kills you with 40 armor, friggen joke! Honestly I'm going back to my dragonfly scout with bpo gear,aur core nades , an camping cru an links, proto hunting. I'm gonna start playing as cheap an dirty as I used to. An scanner s make the game ******** considering two proto scouts, profile dampeners an I'm only at 300 HP an they still get a margin of error an a lite for a second of my position, what the hell was the point in skilling any of that if I can't hide? Games broke, an ccp left us in this spot for almost a yr, an only worked on crap that made life harder for us, take our slots, reduce CPU pg, reduce scan range, an then ignore every scout post?!
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 203	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:17:00 - [5] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Which I'm surprised there even is a issue. Even you mmo players have your ninja's classes right? What's their main ability? See FPS games that have the scout class, all have pretty much the same unwritten rule of abilities almost like the AS class does. See there is your first problem right there. There are no "classes" in DUST. You are meant to "play your own game." so for some being a light medic is what they want. For others being Minja or Slayer is what they want. Yet others like the OHK from a sniper rifle style of play. Honestly, the only "trade-offs" for a Light Suit is this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1571109#post1571109 And if you want to further add in lots of other roles for specific "class-style" play then this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1568428#post1568428
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 65	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:26:00 - [6] - Quote Sniper rifles only on scouts... Or give them a damage bonus. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 203	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:28:00 - [7] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can. Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 204	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:30:00 - [8] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Sniper rifles only on scouts... Or give them a damage bonus. Again, this may be what YOU want, but it may not be what I or someone else wants. I may want to be in a commando suit with a sniper rifle and an AR so that another sniper can't just one shot me so easily and still be capable if a minja tries to stab me in the back. It's all a matter of playstyle and how someone has fun. No one is the same.
Dengru Fatal Absolution 185	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:41:00 - [9] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can. Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game. Before various changes in the game, you could actually stack to Mybrofils and do a very decent amount of melee damage, in conjunction with your strafe to mitigate damage you were recieving. Now with ppl running around with over 300 armor, even two mybrofils on a min scout is not really that good since thats just 379 damage. I can't imagine someone having wide success doing that with this suit. The melee bonus shouldve always been 20 points higher if they were really trying to make a unmatched melee fighter, like the description states. The description actually says, unmatched hand to hand combatant. (>^_^)><(^.^<)
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1243	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:42:00 - [10] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Tch Tch wrote: Sniper rifles only on scouts... Or give them a damage bonus. Again, this may be what YOU want, but it may not be what I or someone else wants. I may want to be in a commando suit with a sniper rifle and an AR so that another sniper can't just one shot me so easily and still be capable if a minja tries to stab me in the back. It's all a matter of play style and how someone has fun. No one is the same. read my post again jadd. about how I blame the no class system for scout situation. With all that freedom there is very little place for a actual scout suit. then why have em if the medium can do it better? You understand what I'm getting at? there is always a trade off, and CCP not understanding 2 cents about FPS games is why dust is where it is now. Or is it that everyone is not seeing how awesome this game is? It's looks good on paper to write "you can play and be whatever you want. what ever suits your "playstyle" But it comes at a cost of something. and prince Nigeria pretty much summed up what happens when you try and cram things together while ignoring or not respecting one of the genres.

Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 204	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:45:00 - [11] - Quote Dengru wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can. Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game. when you take into account the armor buffs and how much hp a basic plate gives you with armor upgrades at 4 and above, 110 is not enough. Just look at the description, its says its supposed to be unmatched in melee combat. Before the various changes in the game, you could actually stack to Mybrofils and do a very decent amount of melee damage, in conjunction with your strafe to mitigate damage. Now with ppl running around with over 300 armor, even two mybrofils on a min scout is not really that good since thats just 379 damage. I can't imagine someone having wide success doing that with this suit. The melee bonus shouldve always been 20 points higher if they were really trying to make a unmatched melee fighter, like the description states. I never said that it was enough or even was supposed to be. I never trust the descriptive text on anything in the game because English is usually not the dev's first language who wrote it and if it was then they probably wrote it based upon what they were told the item was supposed to do and NOT what it actually does. Instead I always ignore the "fluff" page and skip over to the actual stats page and make my own judgements based off what it actually does.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1243	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:46:00 - [12] - Quote Not I'm talking about scouts getting a poo poo buff of 50% damage. I mean it when I say OHK. 100% damage, by either a bloody lightsabre or shield and armor ignoring CQ weapon. That will balance the scout dramatically. even with that scout won't put up the kill numbers of AS or HEAVY or HAV.
Dengru Fatal Absolution 185	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:49:00 - [13] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Dengru wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can. Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game. when you take into account the armor buffs and how much hp a basic plate gives you with armor upgrades at 4 and above, 110 is not enough. Just look at the description, its says its supposed to be unmatched in melee combat. Before the various changes in the game, you could actually stack to Mybrofils and do a very decent amount of melee damage, in conjunction with your strafe to mitigate damage. Now with ppl running around with over 300 armor, even two mybrofils on a min scout is not really that good since thats just 379 damage. I can't imagine someone having wide success doing that with this suit. The melee bonus shouldve always been 20 points higher if they were really trying to make a unmatched melee fighter, like the description states. I never said that it was enough or even was supposed to be. I never trust the descriptive text on anything in the game because English is usually not the dev's first language who wrote it and if it was then they probably wrote it based upon what they were told the item was supposed to do and NOT what it actually does. Instead I always ignore the "fluff" page and skip over to the actual stats page and make my own judgements based off what it actually does. You said it wasnt intended to be melee king of the game...you just tried correcting him on how melee was designed in this game, and it turns out you havent even read the description for min scout, which calls it an unmatched melee fighter You dont seem to have pratical experience with any of the mechanics in question (>^_^)><(^.^<)
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 65	Posted - 2013.12.09 21:57:00 - [14] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Tch Tch wrote: Sniper rifles only on scouts... Or give them a damage bonus. Again, this may be what YOU want, but it may not be what I or someone else wants. I may want to be in a commando suit with a sniper rifle and an AR so that another sniper can't just one shot me so easily and still be capable if a minja tries to stab me in the back. It's all a matter of playstyle and how someone has fun. No one is the same. So you are saying its fine that scouts are glass cannons without the cannon part? They don't run particularly fast, have toilet paper for pants (it has a use), some can passively scan a little further... Well within optimal range of most weapons, can't take anymore equipment then anyone else etc Mind you are scout STD is about the equivalent tank of a MLT with the right setup that moves faster and is harder to passively scan. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 143	Posted - 2013.12.09 22:07:00 - [15] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can. Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game. 1. I've played this since beta an scouts did amazing damage before uprising plus scan range was 25-30 We had more slots an equip, better stats an CPU pg. 2. They made a suit with a 25 % melee an nova knive damage, yet the base is 80, the only way to make use of that racial melee bonus is to complex H2h an drop shields on a proto suit from 343 to 270, an a advance suit from 270 to less than 198 shield if you can even fit that an keep speed 3. This suit can hardly fit anything, let alone complex h2h , shields, speed, endurance , a good gun, knives that don't even have a fitting optimization , a compact nano which is almos mandatory for a minja, an if you have to get under 30 db you need a mod an you lose that speed or endurance, 16 m scan is brutal to say the least, an out of all this your racial bonus an the suit style makes a mockery of being fast an stealthy to even use those racial bonuses. And last don't talk to me like I'm a idiot when my main account is close to 20 000 kills, more than half way up the scout kill board( top 60) an I have been scout since beta. So how about you not assume anything about me, you sound more like a tourist than anything
DEZKA DIABLO Commando Perkone Caldari State 145	Posted - 2013.12.09 22:20:00 - [16] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: I hear ya, melee has to be huge in compared to the what 80 base? If you stop right there and look at the damage for the other suits you will realize that CCP was gearing the power of a melee attack to the size of the suit. A light suit only does 80pts base, a medium does 110 pts base, and a heavy does 150pts base. Larger mechanisms = larger force. So they were NOT meant to be the melee damage kings of the game. However this still doesn't stop a person from trying to play the game their way and fitting Kin's with a nova knife and running around and melee killing everyone that they can. Have fun however you want to, but don't make random assumptions with this game. 1. I've played this since beta an scouts did amazing damage before uprising plus scan range was 25-30 We had more slots an equip, better stats an CPU pg. 2. They made a suit with a 25 % melee an nova knive damage, yet the base is 80, the only way to make use of that racial melee bonus is to complex H2h an drop shields on a proto suit from 343 to 270, an a advance suit from 270 to less than 198 shield if you can even fit that an keep speed 3. This suit can hardly fit anything, let alone complex h2h , shields, speed, endurance , a good gun, knives that don't even have a fitting optimization , a compact nano which is almos mandatory for a minja, an if you have to get under 30 db you need a mod an you lose that speed or endurance, 16 m scan is brutal to say the least, an out of all this your racial bonus an the suit style makes a mockery of being fast an stealthy to even use those racial bonuses. And last don't talk to me like I'm a idiot when my main account is close to 20 000 kills, more than half way up the scout kill board( top 60) an I have been scout since beta. So how about you not assume anything about me, you sound more like a tourist than anything
byte modal Algintal Core Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2013.12.09 22:34:00 - [17] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Which I'm surprised there even is a issue. Even you mmo players have your ninja's classes right? What's their main ability? See FPS games that have the scout class, all have pretty much the same unwritten rule of abilities almost like the AS class does. See there is your first problem right there. There are no "classes" in DUST. You are meant to "play your own game." so for some being a light medic is what they want. For others being Minja or Slayer is what they want. Yet others like the OHK from a sniper rifle style of play. I want to throw in here for a sec! Maybe it's just me, but this is something that has always bugged me about the subtle line between classes and the open sandbox concept that we have here in New Eden. Yes, we are free to skill in and play whatever role/class we wish at any given time. Please note though, that the keyword there is skill (points). Coming from EVE, I was totally jazzed by the concept of playing out any role I choose, so long as I'm willing to invest the time to skill the points required for a particular ship and fitting. If I'm out mining and I'm ganked, I'm not going to load up my hauler with railguns and hunt down my killer as he loots my hull. If that were the case, I wouldn't have been ganked to begin with because I would have already had the better defensive/offensive gear fitted up---while I'm mining. No, instead, I'd jump to station, board my BS/BC/whatever, with a loadout of rails and drones and go on a hunt to get revenge and maybe even recover something---something my mining ship was never designed to do, nor could it really. The freedom of New Eden, as I always understood it at least, is to have the ability to train skill sets that allow me to play other roles at my discretion under the control of the same character. I compound my abilities and compliment them with what I've chosen to train and specialize in. While those skills may compliment each other, depending on what role I am currently fitting, they do not take place equally at the same time, unfortunately. Now if I can run a ship with lasers, drones, missiles, rails, blasters, e-war, strip miners, with shield and armor tanks, and do it all to the same level or better than anyone who would specialize in either, then yes please. Anyway, I'm a bit off point of the OP perhaps, but I see this view pop up from time to time and, considering New Eden for what it is, I'm always confused as to how. Also, I know I'm throwing EVE jargon around in a Dust forum. It's just an existing model to compare, sharing the same universe. Alright. Back to lurking.... hugs n kisses all around, - me.


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