DUST Search - Do mercs have a soul?

True Adamance wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

No one has a soul. Not immortal mercs, not capsuleers, not the pious monks of the Amarr, not the regular people. Consciousness/mind is all there is, and its basically a process generated by the brain through natural means. Once your brain is destroyed, the process of "mind" ceases, but if you can recreate the brain of a person (through cloning and neural shaping) then you can make it start performing the action known as "mind" or "consciousness" again. Identical brains generate identical minds.
If I were to guess how our immortality implants work, I would say it works by transmitting the state/structure of our brain to a new brain after death, and the state/structure of the new brain is molded by the implant to be that of the destroyed one. If the brains are the same, then they will generate the same mind.

The physical parts are not important, it is the actions they perform and the information they store that matter. I suppose one could count the actions and information as a soul, but I would not.

That's a dark and ultimately hopeless way to live, I do pity you greatly.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 701	Posted - 2013.12.09 19:11:00 - [1] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: ((The Amarr have always been against cloning, because they believe it damns the soul. The royal family is forbidden to be cloned, and, whenever succession trials occur to determine a new emperor, the losing heirs all comit suicide. Sarum was cloned, but with the circumstances being very murky, and the 'divine powers' she seemed to demonstrate upon her return meant faithful Amarr overlooked the obvious means of her return in favor of divine intervention. To her credit, she is far more competent and rational than many of her predecessors, though she IS an athiest, and slightly mad thanks to the 'other' in her head. Thats the actual lore behind the second question. Donno if you just wanted in character answers)) ((When you are in an in-character forum, you would think that questions made there are in-character, y'know? Seriously, use the frigging DUST 514 Fiction if you want to discuss lore, don't ruin the IGS with OOC comments. But back to the topic)) I believe in a soul, and it is eternal. Death leads to rebirth, solution leads to more problems. When you fully understand the cycle through death and rebirth, you can move on. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 05/12/13
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 706	Posted - 2013.12.09 22:10:00 - [2] - Quote Mistaahh Juvenile wrote: And how do we get reborn? Science. Has nothing to do with a soul, at all. I wish I shared your optimistic vision, Denak. My soul was eternal before I was a soldier, and will be long after my clones are gone. Being a clone soldier is merely an extension of my faith, and I will continue the cycle after this body and its clones cease to exist. One day, once I have understood it completely, after years, decades, even centuries, I can break the cycle and move on. I have my views, you have yours, there's no point in arguing which one is more true. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 05/12/13
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 707	Posted - 2013.12.10 10:10:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: No one has a soul. Not immortal mercs, not capsuleers, not the pious monks of the Amarr, not the regular people. Consciousness/mind is all there is, and its basically a process generated by the brain through natural means. Once your brain is destroyed, the process of "mind" ceases, but if you can recreate the brain of a person (through cloning and neural shaping) then you can make it start performing the action known as "mind" or "consciousness" again. Identical brains generate identical minds. If I were to guess how our immortality implants work, I would say it works by transmitting the state/structure of our brain to a new brain after death, and the state/structure of the new brain is molded by the implant to be that of the destroyed one. If the brains are the same, then they will generate the same mind. The physical parts are not important, it is the actions they perform and the information they store that matter. I suppose one could count the actions and information as a soul, but I would not. That's a dark and ultimately hopeless way to live, I do pity you greatly. I do believe that there is more to a man than what you can physically measure and prove exist, and that the soul is eternal even beyond death. But everyone has their own views of the soul, and if they are certain of that belief, and are happy with it, who are we to argue how their life is? Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 05/12/13
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 712	Posted - 2013.12.11 13:24:00 - [4] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: You can phrase BS in the most poetic way, and sprinkle flower petals upon the words, but its still BS. Neither you (nor True Adamance) have yet to provide compelling arguments to the support of the existence of a soul. Simply accepting everyone has different views may sound nice and all, but that just means reason and facts get placed on equal footing as fairy-tale, no intellectual progress can be made if we just all agree to disagree. Who are we to not argue? we're intelligent complex organisms, and the only ones capable of pondering these things as far as I know. It would be a waste of our minds to not tackle these things. It is our right as human beings to question. If you believe it is BS, then you believe it is BS, what's your point? Make intellectual progress all you want, question the soul all you want, downplay my beliefs all you want, it's not going to affect me. I'm not trying to force you, or convince you or convert you to think how I think, nor do I plan to do so for anyone else. I'm not going to threaten you with eternal damnation if you don't do as I do. Me believing in what you say are fairy-tales does not affect you, nor should it I was originally here to state my views on the subject as the original poster asked, not argue if it is true or not so I'll leave it at that. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 05/12/13
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 714	Posted - 2013.12.11 17:33:00 - [5] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Bah! humbug! That's intellectual laziness, I want to fight pulls out Gallente research papers on the subject of consciousness and slaps you with them. Duel me you coward! poke holes in my logic. I'll need people to argue with the help fill up eternity, eternity is very very very long. Why would I want to argue about this? There's plenty of other, more productful activities to do. If you really want to have a debate over this, try Kador. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 05/12/13
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 718	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:28:00 - [6] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: .I think you purposely tried to arouse anger from me with your comment on the and "greatness" Amarr, and the "value" of their faith; had the astropoltical scene been different, it would have been the Caldari who were enslaved by them, I would love to hear your opinions of their faith as you writhe in pain on the floor and die painfully because of the Vitoc you've been injected with by your master. One day I will see to it that the Amarr Empire burns for all its crimes, even if it takes me a thousand years. I find this really amusing. You talk about how all Amarr are "evil" and use cruel methods to control their slaves, and the very next moment you talk about mass-murdering an entire nation, with no regard whatsoever to the political, economical, social, military and countless other reporcussions, all in the name of vengeance. You talk about how my faith is "false" with no proof, yet you clearly know very little about faith. You talk about not needing faith for morality, then you promote the Amarr as the epitome of evil, as if morality was only black and white and use it to justify your own horrific acts. You yourself show how bad the "natural" moral compass is. Why do you consider slavery as evil? Because you have been told your entire life that slavery is evil and nobody wants to be a slave. An Amarrian is told his entire life that slavery is right, and is part of the path to enlightment. Why are you right and the Amarrian wrong? You might say: "But they hurt slaves!", do they always? If the slave is obedient, he gets little punishment, and one day he can be relieved of his slave status and live as a functional part of the Amarr society. You are a firm believer in democracy and freedom, right? There's a lot of horrible acts done in the name of democracy, even moreso than Amarr. The Gallente executed Eturrer in the most gruesome way possible. They torture and abuse prisoners without any actual benefit gained. Then the Minmatar attacked Gallente forces, just because they didn't feel the Midular trial wasn't handled properly. Why do they do all this? For patriotism, for their "people", their "home". Morality is not a compass that always points to the north, the "right". Morality is a guideline of different shades of grey, and can be easily ignored for the sake of your own benefit. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 05/12/13