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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1766
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Posted - 2013.12.06 13:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can we get a 33/55/77 HP pattern?
Make those basic and enhanced extenders actually useful, please, so that newer players can use something decent.
A bit longer TTK for poor newbies who gets insta-creamed by anyhing.
And a viable choice even for expert players, who can now use STD or ADV extenders to gain some CPU and PG for better equipment, weapons, or low slots.
.....
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3981
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Posted - 2013.12.06 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Can we get a 33/55/77 HP pattern?
Make those basic and enhanced extenders actually useful, please, so that newer players can use something decent.
A bit longer TTK for poor newbies who gets insta-creamed by anyhing.
And a viable choice even for expert players, who can now use STD or ADV extenders to gain some CPU and PG for better equipment, weapons, or low slots.
.....
Seriously? Shields have not been nerfed for no reason.
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Both new weapons coming in 1.7 do more damage to armor than shield, and when the TTK gets balanced out, stacking shield extenders and armor plates will be EQUALLY penalized.
Stop knee-jerk reacting to things without considering their future implications.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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abarkrishna
warravens
109
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP should stop introducing incomplete ideas.
Scouts have been **** for so long because they have been waiting for cloaks to make their role useful. There is still no word on the cloaks and yet scouts are still gimped. If CCP had the foresite to relase things at the same time to keep things in balance all of these problems would not be occuring
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
96
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:
Stop knee-jerk reacting to things without considering their future implications.
When things get balanced out? They have never been balanced! SoonTM. You know they don't test this **** before they put it out, so yes shields got nerfed for no reason. Shields have been crippled since 1.5 and will continue to be. Devs haven't made a statement anywhere that TTK is going away. So who's knee-jerk reacting?
This nerf is esp. crippling to the already gimped Minmatar Assault and Minmatar Scout suit. It is not a knee jerk reaction to be upset that CCP just made some players classes completely and utterly useless. People spend a lot of time playing this game and to have your class go from worthless to absolutely worthless in every possible scenario is not fair.
If you are going to build a game with a skill tree and grind like Dust, at least make sure the changes don't make an already underwhelming suit even more useless.
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1769
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Seriously?
The only reason why armor isn't trash... well, that's a good reason, in my honest opinion.
And maybe we should say that you can get from 500 to 750 armor easily, sit on triage nanohives, be healed by reppers and take advantage of the free Complex Repairer that all Logistic suits have.
So how is this going to change whenever (if) TTK is addressed? Let me guess, if right now Armor tankers are the only viable choice because they are difficult to take down, they are going to be living tanks then.
So what's the reason for the Shield nerf?
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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abarkrishna
warravens
111
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Seriously? The only reason why armor isn't trash... well, that's a good reason, in my honest opinion. And maybe we should say that you can get from 500 to 750 armor easily, sit on triage nanohives, be healed by reppers and take advantage of the free Complex Repairer that all Logistic suits have. So how is this going to change whenever (if) TTK is addressed? Let me guess, if right now Armor tankers are the only viable choice because they are difficult to take down, they are going to be living tanks then. So what's the reason for the Shield nerf?
So It's ok for a heavy or an assault to sit on repping hives but not a logi? And like 5 HP a second is really going to make a difference. 5 HP will make me live a whole 0.005 seconds longer. Oh my! That is so OP
Everyone is tanking HP because TTK is so low. Fix that and everyone will be happier.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1050
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
Stop knee-jerk reacting to things without considering their future implications.
Devs haven't made a statement anywhere that TTK is going away.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1534407#post1534407
They're on it. A shield penalty has been asked for by many players and for quite some time now.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1771
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:
So It's ok for a heavy or an assault to sit on repping hives but not a logi? And like 5 HP a second is really going to make a difference. 5 HP will make me live a whole 0.005 seconds longer. Oh my! That is so OP
Everyone is tanking HP because TTK is so low. Fix that and everyone will be happier.
Heavies can't carry hives.
5 HP instead of nothing is a big difference, yes, especially since you can use that module slot for an extra plate instead of a repper.
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
1433
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
actually i agree shields are in need of a buff for a few reasons actually.
first and foremost they had higher requirements and lower gain because 1 they recharge naturally, and 2 their was no down side.
so now that their is a downside an increase in in total gain should be warrented.
second armor's down side to speed is pretty close to irrelevant with speed tanking removed.
third and most importantly I don't believe the devs understood the power and value of damage mods when balancing the shields, as it stands currently shields need to be weighed against having a damage mod in that same slot, their is no equivalent sacrifice for armor tankers.
all of these reasons combined should result in a pretty substantial increase in shield mods imo. |
Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
567
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:abarkrishna wrote:
So It's ok for a heavy or an assault to sit on repping hives but not a logi? And like 5 HP a second is really going to make a difference. 5 HP will make me live a whole 0.005 seconds longer. Oh my! That is so OP
Everyone is tanking HP because TTK is so low. Fix that and everyone will be happier.
Heavies can't carry hives. 5 HP instead of nothing is a big difference, yes, especially since you can use that module slot for an extra plate instead of a repper.
How many times have you sacrificed a Higher Meta level weapon for a Higer meta of other gear? I do it all-the-time for my support suits as a Logi. I also carry rep hives alot of the time because that 5hp per second could be achieved through the use of a complex armor repper but rather than that I skilled something that would be useful for your fat suit. Why else would you have more armor and shields combined than a LogiBro? You will survive (in most cases) a charged sniper round to the head, me not so much.
Logi God in the Flesh
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abarkrishna
warravens
111
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Posted - 2013.12.06 15:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:abarkrishna wrote:
So It's ok for a heavy or an assault to sit on repping hives but not a logi? And like 5 HP a second is really going to make a difference. 5 HP will make me live a whole 0.005 seconds longer. Oh my! That is so OP
Everyone is tanking HP because TTK is so low. Fix that and everyone will be happier.
Heavies can't carry hives. 5 HP instead of nothing is a big difference, yes, especially since you can use that module slot for an extra plate instead of a repper.
Um I am pretty sure that every suit has one equipment slot except the commando.
Squad up with a logi who will heal you then. And if you have ever run proto reppers you would know they are useless on an assault or a heavy who likely has a logi following behind them anyways. The only reason logis even have it is because who is going to heal us when we get injured. It sure as hell is not going to be the assault holding down the front lines preventing the enemy from pushing forward. It won't be the scouts who are placing links behind the enemy to prepare for a flank. We really have no one to count on to heal us. It's not like I can just leave my team hanging while I go switch suits.
Also no real logi would stand on his own hives. That takes away from precious WP I could be earning from helping my team.
The fact of the matter is even on my assault suits which i have already proto'd out I do not run Proto reppers because it is a waste of a slot as you said yourself. I still stack on the armor plates. Wanna know what the difference is? I have dedicated logis to back me up while I do my job.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1776
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:
Um I am pretty sure that every suit has one equipment slot except the commando.
Squad up with a logi who will heal you then. And if you have ever run proto reppers you would know they are useless on an assault or a heavy who likely has a logi following behind them anyways. The only reason logis even have it is because who is going to heal us when we get injured. It sure as hell is not going to be the assault holding down the front lines preventing the enemy from pushing forward. It won't be the scouts who are placing links behind the enemy to prepare for a flank. We really have no one to count on to heal us. It's not like I can just leave my team hanging while I go switch suits.
Also no real logi would stand on his own hives. That takes away from precious WP I could be earning from helping my team.
The fact of the matter is even on my assault suits which i have already proto'd out I do not run Proto reppers because it is a waste of a slot as you said yourself. I still stack on the armor plates. Wanna know what the difference is? I have dedicated logis to back me up while I do my job.
I have a STD Heavy and it doesn't have equipment slots.
Anyway, I didn't want to turn this into a "logi is OP" thread. Please, don't misunderstand.
What I wanted to say it's that armor gives many HP and there are multiple ways to heal it very quickly. Of course Logi's are advantaged at this. That's the point.
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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abarkrishna
warravens
111
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Posted - 2013.12.06 15:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:
I have a STD Heavy and it doesn't have equipment slots.
Anyway, I didn't want to turn this into a "logi is OP" thread. Please, don't misunderstand.
What I wanted to say it's that armor gives many HP and there are multiple ways to heal it very quickly. Of course Logi's are advantaged at this. That's the point.
As a dedicated logi since closed beta I have been very unimpressed with the anti logi love and am sick of people saying it is OP. So please forgive me for any hostilities regarding that.
Now that being said I get what you are saying. I believe CCP is looking into re-balancing TTK/DPS. When that happens people will not have to stack as much HP as they are now and still be able to live for a while. Naturally when this occurs there will be much more diversity in suits and it will make modules such as regulators, and othe such modules that get neglected in this very low TTK era we are currently enduring.
Speaking from experience pre 1.7 Shield suits are among the hardest to kill at times because of the fast regen rate. I did not have much of an issue with this as flux grenades do the trick quite well. But many people complained about this problem because with TTK being so low armor suits have a disadvantage when not running with a logi or rep hives. As I had already stated 5 HP armor regen is miniscule compared to the regen of shields. Unfortunately a large portion of the users of this game choose to run alone and die like tards. They come here expecting COD and are unhappy when they can not solo and cry about every little thing.
This time it just happened to be the shield regen rate. If it makes you feel better I feel your pain as my logi is going to get nerfed in the near future because of shared root cause.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4448
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Seriously? The only reason why armor isn't trash... well, that's a good reason, in my honest opinion. And maybe we should say that you can get from 500 to 750 armor easily, sit on triage nanohives, be healed by reppers and take advantage of the free Complex Repairer that all Logistic suits have. So how is this going to change whenever (if) TTK is addressed? Let me guess, if right now Armor tankers are the only viable choice because they are difficult to take down, they are going to be living tanks then. So what's the reason for the Shield nerf?
My Caldari Assault has 500 shields.
The eHP difference between my Caldari and Gallente is 88hp.
It regenerates uber fast, moves faster than my Gallente, and the damage difference between the two is 5%.
It has a delay of 2-3 seconds.
It can also carry a better nanohive.
Yup, totally underpowered.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1789
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 17:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
My Caldari Assault has 500 shields.
The eHP difference between my Caldari and Gallente is 88hp.
It regenerates uber fast, moves faster than my Gallente, and the damage difference between the two is 5%.
It has a delay of 2-3 seconds.
It can also carry a better nanohive.
Yup, totally underpowered.
While I might agree about the Gallente assault not being the best (but you're taking the most fragile armor suit as example), I can't find a reason for the shield nerf.
Shield tanking performances have gone down constantly since 1.4, this is a fact. This nerf was totally unnecessary.
I can't see how someone could say that shield tanking is in a good place right now. Or after 1.7.
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
225
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Seriously? The only reason why armor isn't trash... well, that's a good reason, in my honest opinion. And maybe we should say that you can get from 500 to 750 armor easily, sit on triage nanohives, be healed by reppers and take advantage of the free Complex Repairer that all Logistic suits have. So how is this going to change whenever (if) TTK is addressed? Let me guess, if right now Armor tankers are the only viable choice because they are difficult to take down, they are going to be living tanks then. So what's the reason for the Shield nerf? So It's ok for a heavy or an assault to sit on repping hives but not a logi? And like 5 HP a second is really going to make a difference. 5 HP will make me live a whole 0.005 seconds longer. Oh my! That is so OP Everyone is tanking HP because TTK is so low. Fix that and everyone will be happier.
5hps you know healing but if it doesn't matter that much you'd be fine with it going away right?
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
433
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Posted - 2013.12.06 18:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
My Caldari Assault has 500 shields.
The eHP difference between my Caldari and Gallente is 88hp.
It regenerates uber fast, moves faster than my Gallente, and the damage difference between the two is 5%.
It has a delay of 2-3 seconds.
It can also carry a better nanohive.
Yup, totally underpowered.
While I might agree about the Gallente assault not being the best (but you're taking the most fragile armor suit as example), I can't find a reason for the shield nerf. Shield tanking performances have gone down constantly since 1.4, this is a fact. This nerf was totally unnecessary. I can't see how someone could say that shield tanking is in a good place right now. Or after 1.7.
Some good points on both sides.
I would have had no issue at all with the stacking penalty if they buffed the HP per tier. Right now you pay more ISK for a complex extender, big CPU/PG draw, less HP than a basic armor plate. If the shield HP was enough to let you get into cover and let the energizer, regulator, or recharger work I think that's pretty legit. It just dosn't feel like the massive DPS levels out there support that.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1634
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:actually i agree shields are in need of a buff for a few reasons actually.
first and foremost they had higher requirements and lower gain because 1 they recharge naturally, and 2 their was no down side.
so now that their is a downside an increase in in total gain should be warrented.
second armor's down side to speed is pretty close to irrelevant with speed tanking removed.
third and most importantly I don't believe the devs understood the power and value of damage mods when balancing the shields, as it stands currently shields need to be weighed against having a damage mod in that same slot, their is no equivalent sacrifice for armor tankers.
all of these reasons combined should result in a pretty substantial increase in shield mods imo.
No equivalent sacrifice? Do you even use enhanced or complex armor plates?
We move super slow and have terrible sprint speeds. And unlike shields where you can hop behind a corner and watch your health shoot back up, armor takes forever to regen. They will never be able to have the same regen power of shields.
And shield tankers also have modules to boost their regen even further in their opposite tank slots. As well as a CPU enhancer.
All armor tankers have is damage mods. We don't have an armor hardner in our opposite tank slots or a PG extender to boost what our HP depends on without gimping our main source of HP.
Armor and shields both suck with this low TTK.
And the lack of support modules for armor makes it suck even more.
My Very First Thread About Tanks
-HAND
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abarkrishna
warravens
126
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:abarkrishna wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Seriously? The only reason why armor isn't trash... well, that's a good reason, in my honest opinion. And maybe we should say that you can get from 500 to 750 armor easily, sit on triage nanohives, be healed by reppers and take advantage of the free Complex Repairer that all Logistic suits have. So how is this going to change whenever (if) TTK is addressed? Let me guess, if right now Armor tankers are the only viable choice because they are difficult to take down, they are going to be living tanks then. So what's the reason for the Shield nerf? So It's ok for a heavy or an assault to sit on repping hives but not a logi? And like 5 HP a second is really going to make a difference. 5 HP will make me live a whole 0.005 seconds longer. Oh my! That is so OP Everyone is tanking HP because TTK is so low. Fix that and everyone will be happier. 5hps you know healing but if it doesn't matter that much you'd be fine with it going away right?
Sure why the **** not. Ill just bring out proto repping and proto ammo hives and camp them and spam mass driver rounds at the enemy. You all thought you hated us now. just wait and see what happenes if you take away our regen.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
959
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Posted - 2013.12.06 21:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
nerfed? no. fixed? yes.
modules without stacking penalties are stupid. |
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1813
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Posted - 2013.12.06 21:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
low genius wrote:nerfed? no. fixed? yes.
modules without stacking penalties are stupid.
It's a nerf, by definition. And there are other modules without stacking penalties.
Why stupid?
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1644
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Keri, I don't think you are seeing the big picture here.
Shields are being given a stacking penalty because of the new weapons having a damage efficiency towards armor. If shields weren't given stacking penalties then we'd create another CalLogi FoTM and Caldari suits would basically become the next insanely used FoTM.
However, I do believe that the stacking penalties will be a serious problem for Minmatar suits, as they primarily rely on shields but lack a strong base HP to balance out with the shield nerf.
I also believe that even though they have a good health regeneration speed, the shield extenders do need to have an increase of HP given. A complex shield extender will only allow you to survive about 3-5 bullets from even a MLT Assault Rifle. That's a problem.
Shields and armor both suck right now, but armor only seems better because of it's high HP ceiling in comparison to shields. Until the current TTK is addressed there is no balancing or fixing shields and armor. Armor will always be better in this low TTK situation. A good regeneration ability won't do much if you can't live long enough to regenerate.
My Very First Thread About Tanks
-HAND
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1192
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Posted - 2013.12.06 22:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sure I think shields could use the buff but I'd make them wait just a tad bit longer ya know because of the past its had.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1645
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Posted - 2013.12.06 22:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Sure I think shields could use the buff but I'd make them wait just a tad bit longer ya know because of the past its had.
Your an idiot.
It's this ideal and the whole "I see people do just fine running slol with it in PUBs" mentality that caused things such as the Heavy and the Scout to be in the position they are in now.
You can't keeps something UP because it was considered OP in the past. That's counterproductive and leads to even more balancing issues than it solves.
My Very First Thread About Tanks
-HAND
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Saoa Scum
Judge Mercenaries
39
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Posted - 2013.12.06 22:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
The ONLY reason armor isn't trash right now is because the TTK is out of whack and the only way to get kills anymore is to stack damage mods, which armor can do without sacrificing HP.
What do you think happens when that gets fixed? Shield is back on top again.
Seriously? The only reason why armor isn't trash... well, that's a good reason, in my honest opinion. And maybe we should say that you can get from 500 to 750 armor easily, sit on triage nanohives, be healed by reppers and take advantage of the free Complex Repairer that all Logistic suits have. So how is this going to change whenever (if) TTK is addressed? Let me guess, if right now Armor tankers are the only viable choice because they are difficult to take down, they are going to be living tanks then. So what's the reason for the Shield nerf? My Caldari Assault has 500 shields. The eHP difference between my Caldari and Gallente is 88hp. It regenerates uber fast, moves faster than my Gallente, and the damage difference between the two is 5%. It has a delay of 2-3 seconds. It can also carry a better nanohive. Yup, totally underpowered.
Im consider myself a nice guy and hardly ever call people names but you sure has earned it.
You sir...are an idiot!
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