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When exactly did you decide to put in the shield nerf?

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KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1473	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:25:00 - [1] - Quote I would think it was some time ago, definately not based on average gameplay lately, well at least I hope not. It makes you wonder, do they play the game? Armor has been dominating since launch of 1.6. There are rep hives all over the place these days.... The previous 588 shield Cal logi doesn't seem so bad now, compared to an armor stacked Galente (800+ armor) standing on 2 rep hives getting 140 HP back per second, the crazy repair tool with 175 hp on a tanked fatty etc.... Rooms filled with 15 rep hives.... I'm all for mechanics that encourages teamwork, but come on! Shields did not need a negative tweak! Well, at least my cal logi has its racial feature to fall back upon. I mean, with 3 complex shield extenders it gets a whopping 443 shields, glad that the racial bonus of 2% more efficiency to Shield Regulators finally becomes handy.... I wouldn't put 3 basic armor plates on a callogi, no sir, that would be crazy talk. Well I'm sort of happy to get my first proto armor tanked suit before this patch... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 132	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:27:00 - [2] - Quote What are you on about? Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1835	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:31:00 - [3] - Quote They talked about it a while ago, and my guess is that since the two new and likely popular weapons are going to be anti-armor, whatever has felt balanced up to this point would tip in the favor of shields again after the patch if they did nothing.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1473	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:33:00 - [4] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: What are you on about? Armor is already the dominating form of tank, these days you see what used to be shield tanked suits now more and more dual tanked due to armor being better in general. Just look at the performance of the basic armor plates vs the complex shield extender. Furthermore, the more rapid regen of shields is mostly countered, and more, by the ability to use rep hives and repairtools. In other words: Armor > Shields Then they give shields a nerf.... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1473	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:34:00 - [5] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: They talked about it a while ago, and my guess is that since the two new and likely popular weapons are going to be anti-armor, whatever has felt balanced up to this point would tip in the favor of shields again after the patch if they did nothing. That may be a valid point, though I doubt it. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5768	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:36:00 - [6] - Quote Armour's dominance is very much due to the 5 HP/s bonus on logis, the huge number of slots they have, and the fact that equipment primarily helps armour tankers. The logi class needs a rebalancing, really. I'm not sure the shield nerf is necessary but we'll see. In the meantime, compare a Calassault to a Galassault and see what the performance difference is, then compare the Galassault to a Gallogi. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1574	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:38:00 - [7] - Quote Shields could have the same 600HP, with a 20HP/s native regen rate Armor gets about 200HP more, with 0HP of native regeneration. If an armor tank wants that kind of regen, he will have to use multiple armor repair modules, which will reduce his armor tank anyway. Cry me a river, and drown to death in it. My Very First Thread About Tanks -HAND
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 920	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:39:00 - [8] - Quote After a weekend that they can only recall in hazy, fuzzy pictures and left them with a tattoo that says, Nerf Shields.
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 499	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:42:00 - [9] - Quote Probably back in the day when shield-tanking was the way to go and they only got to implement it just now thanks to their excellent communications. This is just going to be another example why this game needs a redesign instead of adjusting bad foundations.
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 277	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:43:00 - [10] - Quote the only reason why noone uses shields is because they use those slots for dmg mods Shields needed a downside way to long, just the timing seems to be awkward, thats all. another one bites the Dust...

Yoma Carrim Situation Normal all fraked up 59	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:47:00 - [11] - Quote Your Absolut End wrote: the only reason why noone uses shields is because they use those slots for dmg mods Shields needed a downside way to long, just the timing seems to be awkward, thats all. By the way the forums are reacting saying its awkward timing is an understatement. That time when you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1473	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:48:00 - [12] - Quote Well, the shield tanked suits seems to be fading away, it'll be either armor or dualtank, running a shield suit without armor plates will become more and more rare. And LOL at "shields needed a downside", try "amount" for starters... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8326	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:48:00 - [13] - Quote Did you ever think that they intend to put in remote shield reps and shield rep hives at some point? Win ISK / Vids / O7
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 184	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:50:00 - [14] - Quote They talked about a shield extender nerf back in 1.5 They were the only thing that could add on to EHP without any problems. You still have your speed. Learn to use an ENERGIZER on ur suit and ull be fine Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns please :D
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 132	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:53:00 - [15] - Quote Your Absolut End wrote: the only reason why noone uses shields is because they use those slots for dmg mods Shields needed a downside way to long, just the timing seems to be awkward, thats all. The recharge delay always was the downside of shield tanking, does a stray bullet stop a rep tool or triage hive from repping? The reason I always post about the active reps is because as a Caldari I have one option, and its tied to a vehicle. I just hope they don't give the penalty some insane percentage, and if they do no more $$$ from me. Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1473	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:54:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Did you ever think that they intend to put in remote shield reps and shield rep hives at some point? Then perhaps introduce the shield nerf at that point? http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8326	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:55:00 - [17] - Quote KingBabar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Did you ever think that they intend to put in remote shield reps and shield rep hives at some point? Then perhaps introduce the shield nerf at that point? ::shrugs:: It needed to be done, I imagine they just push stuff into the patches as it becomes available, and they just ship what they can, when they can. Shields were superior for over a year, I think they can handle another month or two of being the lesser option. Win ISK / Vids / O7
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 132	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:56:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Did you ever think that they intend to put in remote shield reps and shield rep hives at some point? I don't think thats on the road map, and it is truly the main factor that fucks any balance between the two. Where the hell is my bubble shield I was promised like 4 months ago. Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 338	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:06:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Armour's dominance is very much due to the 5 HP/s bonus on logis, the huge number of slots they have, and the fact that equipment primarily helps armour tankers. The logi class needs a rebalancing, really. I'm not sure the shield nerf is necessary but we'll see. In the meantime, compare a Calassault to a Galassault and see what the performance difference is, then compare the Galassault to a Gallogi. Adding in the recently buffed rep tool and triage hives armor WILL win out in most cases. Cal assault only defeats Gal Assault because of CPU/PG enhancers not because their tank is better. But yes GalLogi>ALL. It seems an inopportune time to add a shield penalty but there's finally a reason to not dual tank...granted people will still do it. Also I think to ultimately balance shields you are going to add a penalty sometime. Eventually they will be buffed...because they are subpar.
Aye Ayer Nyain Chan 5	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:08:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Shields could have the same 600HP, with a 20HP/s native regen rate Armor gets about 200HP more, with 0HP of native regeneration. If an armor tank wants that kind of regen, he will have to use multiple armor repair modules, which will reduce his armor tank anyway. That's true except the Logis. Pro-Logis can have 5HP/Sec rep which seems to be a bit low. But before shield starts to regen you can earn some HP. If you want fill your armour quickly like shield does then you can use hives. What I want say is that the balance between sheld and armour might be ok (now armour is bit better?) but Logis, especially Gal logi, has got better relatively in this 1.7 update.

KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1473	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:16:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: KingBabar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Did you ever think that they intend to put in remote shield reps and shield rep hives at some point? Then perhaps introduce the shield nerf at that point? ::shrugs:: It needed to be done, I imagine they just push stuff into the patches as it becomes available, and they just ship what they can, when they can. Shields were superior for over a year, I think they can handle another month or two of being the lesser option. Saying it needed to be done doesn't make it so. You said it yourselves, armor is currently the way to go. And no biggy on my part personally, I've been dualtanking for some time now, (getting 393 armor on a cal logi suit at a cost of 30 cpu, 6 PG and 6% speed loss is just too good, especially considered that my 443 shields, ON A SHIELD SUIT costs 162 cpu and 33 pg. With 40 more cpu and 9 more PG, you go from a K2 nanohive to an Allotek, making the recharge too go in favor of the armor tanker. Not saying that armor needs a nerf or that shields need a buff. I'm merely stating that shields definately don't need any form of nerfs ATM. Its just the loss of diversity that's bad IMO. Anyways, armor tank here I come!!! http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1281	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:24:00 - [22] - Quote Yoma Carrim wrote: Your Absolut End wrote: the only reason why noone uses shields is because they use those slots for dmg mods Shields needed a downside way to long, just the timing seems to be awkward, thats all. By the way the forums are reacting saying its awkward timing is an understatement. I wouldn't base my opinion on how the forums are reacting because we more often than not over react to every little thing. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 279	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:33:00 - [23] - Quote Yoma Carrim wrote: Your Absolut End wrote: the only reason why noone uses shields is because they use those slots for dmg mods Shields needed a downside way to long, just the timing seems to be awkward, thats all. By the way the forums are reacting saying its awkward timing is an understatement. by the way the forums reacting to anything they are run by 10 year old kiddos asking their parents (CCP) to buy them all the awesome stuff they saw on television promotions, and once they got it they see some other awesome bullcrap ;) another one bites the Dust...
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 1796	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:38:00 - [24] - Quote Even with 2 triage and 2 allotek hive you don't get 140 ehp back a sec. Hive clusters are longer than a second. Regardless. shields getting a nerf in delay is crap. We asked for shields to have a drawback, but not this. I wish we could've debated it before CCP decided to lock it in. Master naders: Geniuses at evening the odds. Favorite Skype: Zatara.Rought
Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 95	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:53:00 - [25] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I wish we could've debated it before CCP decided to lock it in. Right. Because "design by committee" has ever worked, and we players are privy to every scrap of data CCP has available. It's supposed to work like this: Armor has a lot of HP, but regenerates at a pitiful rate without the use of an Equipment item. Shields have slightly less HP and regenerate much faster. Know why Armor is "OP" right now? Because everybody is a damn Repair Hive PEZ Dispenser right now. Armor isn't the problem. Repair Hives aren't the problem. Being able to deploy more than 20 individual pieces of equipment by yourself GÇö as one GalLogi boasted GÇö is the problem. Fix that and suddenly things will be much more balanced.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11014	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:54:00 - [26] - Quote /me watches the whole meta shift over to anti-armor weapons again. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
Aisha Ctarl 0uter.heaven Proficiency V. 1967	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:57:00 - [27] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Armour's dominance is very much due to the 5 HP/s bonus on logis, the huge number of slots they have, and the fact that equipment primarily helps armour tankers. The logi class needs a rebalancing, really. I'm not sure the shield nerf is necessary but we'll see. In the meantime, compare a Calassault to a Galassault and see what the performance difference is, then compare the Galassault to a Gallogi. Pretty much this - I have an ADVANCED Amarr Logi that can pull 20 hp/s of reps and has around 800 eHP. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 785	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:57:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /me watches the whole meta shift over to anti-armor weapons again. Interesting. Any news on TTK fix? KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 32	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:19:00 - [29] - Quote There are a few layers and synergies here. First people would have had to compare and contrast shields vs armour. Then the pros and cons ie native regen vs none. So at flrst glance for the vets shields would have been even. But the Logi's have a three fold bonus towards armour: Rep tool Self armour repairing Nano hives All of which get more powerful as they go up in skill. To correct my colleague above you don't need to be a protologi to heal 5 hp/s you need to be level 5 of that logi type so aurum kits don't benefit but basic do. So there is a lag in figuring this out and which race is best for your playstyle and at different levels it will switch. Not only is there 3 armour rep bonuses happening within one suit. Those bonuses often get multipliers as they advance ie reps can target more the one, nano hives need to be higher skilled to deploy armour reps but at that point you can deploy multiple sets. Then you have TTK. Having such short TTK influences the other end of the spectrum too. Us newberries get far more mileage out of 85 hp that we can't heal over 22 that we never get the opportunity to heal as we are already dead. Armour tanking gives us some time to fire off our basic weapons. This leads to another weapon type. Scrambler rifle deadly in the hands of a vet mainly because noobs don't have enough points to get high enough weaponry after investing in basic plates and a dampener. Anyhow scrambler rifles make a mockery of most armour types with a head shot but they slice with ease through shields. My typical stomper is armed with a proto scrambler and good on them. Mercy kills are much more civilized and that's what you expect of an Amarr. tl;dr bunch of different skills have combined in one class to allow them and their team mates to have an advantage by armour tanking over shields. It started awhile ago but took people some time to find the sweet spots and optimise it. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 411	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:30:00 - [30] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Even with 2 triage and 2 allotek hive you don't get 140 ehp back a sec. Hive clusters are longer than a second. Regardless. shields getting a nerf in delay is crap. We asked for shields to have a drawback, but not this. I wish we could've debated it before CCP decided to lock it in. The shields do have a drawback - way low TTK. Essentially regulators, energizers, and recharges are only viable if the extender can keep you alive and still in armor long enoug to get to cover or disengage. Pure shield buffer is paper think right now. It also speaks volumes whent the most effective and efficeint defensive mod you can put on your suit is a basic armor plate...which out classes complex extenders.



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