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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
694
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Posted - 2013.12.04 15:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
There is an elephant in the room that must be shot once and for all. It comes in many forms and will be explained shortly after this Brief disclaimer:
**Please read the full post before commenting specially if it's to be nasty about it. A nasty well thought post can become a positive thing but a nasty ignorant post will just be viewed as flaming.
A powerful wave of emotion comes when you see a Duvolle wielding proto heavy charging at you, something is not right with this picture and you "sorta know it". An even more powerful wave of emotion comes in the minds of many mercenaries when the top slayer is a Slayer logi that actually did no logi work work at all. But all that emotion comes from one singular problem. The suits themselves do not affect a way a weapon performs. This in it's most basic form can drastically change how the game is played.
Before I get into the details of what should be done in dust, let me first explain how CCP manages the problem of roles in EvE online. In eve online there are different sizes of ships frigate, cruiser, battleship etc. Each size vessel has a bonus towards it's size of weaponry. So for example a battleship may have bonuses to large turrets but not be limited to only using these. Therefore you can equip the ship with small turrets but these will be less efficient on the ship than the large turrets would be. Aside from the fact the the large turrets deal more damage small turrets are not meant to be on that Battleship hence the small turrets will deal less damage on the battleship than they would if they where on a frigate. But the balancing of roles does not stop there. When a ship is meant, let's say, to be a logistics ship, apart from having hardpoints for equipping turrets reduced, these ships have no bonuses to weapons. You can put all the medium weapons you want on a logistics ship up to it's maximum allowed but these will never function as good as if they where in a heavy assault cruiser.
So where am I getting at? Well CCP obviously has intended roles for suits. A logistics suit should be a logistics suit, an assault suit should assault etc, etc. Therefore let's put this Hypothetical scenario out there; this is what I want you to debate. Lets say CCP reduces all weapon damage by say 20%. In turn they give the assault suits a bonus of 5% to medium weapon damage per level while the Logistics suit gets bonuses to repair tool efficiency or distance. The scouts get a similar bonus to sidearms or light weaponry (let the scouts decide this point) and the heavy gets the same bonus to the heavy weapon.
So what does this do in the end. Well for starters this will ensure that a logi can never deal as much damage as an assault while still maintaining it's light weapon slot; A heavy with a Duvolle will never be as scary as a heavy with an HMG and the assault will be recognized for it's intended role as being a slayer.
This would completely contribute to how roles are played.
On a side note I am not doing more videos till 1.7 because some mechanics might get changed. This is mere speculation but to not have to do the work twice and have people viewing outdated videos I have abstained from making more. They will continue to pop out as soon as 1.7 comes out... And possibly at a faster pace since FW will allow me to test with Squad Members.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
699
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Posted - 2013.12.04 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Give me heavy weapons that don't suck and I may consider it. Till then, my Duvolle Heavy Machine Gun is the only girl for me
Apart from that other elephant called weapon balancing; how do you think this could affect the overall roles in dust... In a utopic every weapon is balanced sort of way?
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
701
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Posted - 2013.12.04 15:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:to many weapons for this to work also there are no medium weapons soooo thats a thing.
some like their scout with NNs, some like it with a shotty, others still take an smg, I like mine with an AR, heck I even know a few who MD their scout.
so what bonus does the scout get? because a shotgun bonus for the gal logi though it makes sense wouldn't work for me and instead would simply further nerf my suit.
I beg to differ; In eve there are more than triple the amount of weapons in dust. This mechanic has functioned to outline roles while not constricting you to them
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
701
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Posted - 2013.12.04 16:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:While that Idea might indeed work for eve. In eve there are a greater number of roles in total. Not to mention we have enough problem with current damage modifiers.
In all honesty I don't actually see why we need an assault class, the only way to make an assault "Useful" would be to make it the best slayer, which is almost impossible without making it overpowered.
While an assault carrier maybe a damage dealer in EVE, down here in DUST you don't last nearly as long. The TTK of this game would never support that kind of play. I'm not just talking about assault rifles, I mean every weapon, unless a scout could literally sponge damage it wouldn't be useful.
But it is nice change to see someone thinking about something else, it's not that it's a bad idea, it makes sense, but at the same time, I just don't think it would work.
Dont forget that EvE has damage modifiers and I just told you how to make the assault be best without actually making it OP. Hence The only target section that actually has a drop in damage output is the LOGI because it's not intended as assault. All other classes stay the same because the damage reduction is gained by speccing into the suit...
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
702
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Posted - 2013.12.04 16:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
AP Grasshopper wrote:It would work, you just may not like it. You'll loose alot of currently viable fitting options. Though you could argue we have too much variety at the moment? I don't feel we have enough variety to be honest.
Hopefully this will be changed once CCP introduces all variants including officer etc.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
702
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Posted - 2013.12.04 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Ghaz, I kinda like where your head's at on this.
I think the key is not limiting people, they should run whatever fit works for them, and providing bonus for role optimization. Role optimization is ultimately what you're describing from the EVE side.
I am not a fan of logi's getting weapon options taken away and simply not optimizing their fit for slaying works elegantly.
On that note, Dust Fiend is also spot on...he plays an offensive style of heavy and this changes his weapon requirements. He pulls the logi along instead of the logi pushing him forward and that's fine. All that should mean is that he doesn't get the additional perks of using role optimized weapons.
this is an excellent post and an opportunity to state that there are many ways people fit their ships in eve that are not role optimized. The best example I can give you is that there is this ship called the ABBADDON that is meant to be used with laser weapons. All it's bonuses are for laser weaponry and defense but since laser weaponry is so Capacitor intensive (It depletes the battery faster), people started using it with minmatar weaponry. Of course It did less damage that it should if it had lasers but it had more capacitor (battery) to run it's tanking modules effectively enabling it to outlast it's opponents.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
703
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Posted - 2013.12.04 16:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:The role system is working fine its just nearly all dust pkayers are horrificly bad at this game, all suits fullfill their roles perfectly. But not all players are suited to the roles there trying to fill.
I.e assults that should really be heavys and vice versa. That said i do think the system could be improved but u cant blame ccp for players thinking logi suits make better assults, cuz they dont and never did. Its just noone new how to get the most out of an assult :-(
The truth is the truth. And slayer log's having more potential than actually assaults is unfortunately the truth.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR.
703
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Posted - 2013.12.04 16:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Always awesome to see your signature LOLZ... although I did put a point in command and got no such message, they must have taken it out for marketing reasons :P
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