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Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 373	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:14:00 - [1] - Quote Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a *****. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them.
DeadlyAztec11 2471	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:17:00 - [2] - Quote Redline tanking is going to be 5x worse in 1.7. Particularly for Dropships. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1107	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:21:00 - [3] - Quote In public (High sec) redline tanking results in prescion strike and instant death. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
True Adamance Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4479	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:22:00 - [4] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a *****. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. Rail guns get better tracking to make them usable CQC? or AOE? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 22	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:23:00 - [5] - Quote And a bill for the orbital strike ammo... Faction ammo isn't cheap mmkay. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 354	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:46:00 - [6] - Quote Here here. Those cowards either need a nerf, a restriction, and/or a hard counter. Current maps are too small and are unsuitable for artillery type weaponry. Rails need to have range to out gun blasters and keep away from infantry, to be sure, but we really don't need an invincible tank camping in the redline being able to snipe across the map. I think their range should be reduced to about 300m (forges reduced to 200m as well, but that's for another thread), that gives plenty of space to be away from the enemy yet short to keep from doing any real work from the redline. I've though about restrictions for vehicles, such as timers, weapon penalties, and the like, for vehicles in the redline, but I don't like any of them because they inadvertently hinder the team if they're being redlined. What they really need is a hard counter, something that can effectively take them on. I don't know what this could be, (i'd imagine another vehicle like a dropship or something), but something that would be able to seriously damage them. I was thinking a deployable smart bomb, some kind of torpedo that can be launched from a dropship and had a small but powerful anti-material kick. It would be fired line of sight without targeting (similar to bombs in EvE, making stationary targets prime), and would only affect vehicles/ installations via nanites or thermite-like charge (different variants?), idk. Anything to punch a hole in their hulls. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
Sgt Buttscratch Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1070	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:47:00 - [7] - Quote How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! He hould have driven into the center of the map, got out his tank a tried using AV nades on your python. The rail tanks were designed specifically for what happened, they dont render infantry very well anymore, they need to get close to installations to render them. The only thing they render at range is enemy vehicles. working as intended I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
True Adamance Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4485	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:50:00 - [8] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: And a bill for the orbital strike ammo... Faction ammo isn't cheap mmkay. True but OB tactical ammo is. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 859	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:03:00 - [9] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! He hould have driven into the center of the map, got out his tank a tried using AV nades on your python. The rail tanks were designed specifically for what happened, they dont render infantry very well anymore, they need to get close to installations to render them. The only thing they render at range is enemy vehicles. working as intended Why are you talking about range? The thread is about a section of the playable zone where players can shoot out of across the map yet few if any can return fire. Rail Tanks are not vulnerable to a reasonable tactical response due to the red line. The people they can kill are vulnerable yet struggle to respond. This is the imbalance. I have to risk my dropship to act. as do all but redline players. It is simply not fair. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
ratamaq doc Edge Regiment 191	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:04:00 - [10] - Quote How you kill a redline tank

Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 260	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:36:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! He hould have driven into the center of the map, got out his tank a tried using AV nades on your python. The rail tanks were designed specifically for what happened, they dont render infantry very well anymore, they need to get close to installations to render them. The only thing they render at range is enemy vehicles. working as intended If a Rail kills me on the opposite side of the bridge tactically using range to his advantage I am OK but redline rail sniping is cowardly and should only ever be done against douche bags who set up Forge's on the towers or missile armor tanks. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
dogmanpig black market bank 71	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:42:00 - [12] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! He hould have driven into the center of the map, got out his tank a tried using AV nades on your python. The rail tanks were designed specifically for what happened, they dont render infantry very well anymore, they need to get close to installations to render them. The only thing they render at range is enemy vehicles. working as intended If a Rail kills me on the opposite side of the bridge tactically using range to his advantage I am OK but redline rail sniping is cowardly and should only ever be done against douche bags who set up Forge's on the towers or missile armor tanks. so every match, yes? You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 7 1/3 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 865	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:48:00 - [13] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: In public (High sec) redline tanking results in prescion strike and instant death. I'd like to argue that with the right fit and in the right location, an OB will only scratch you. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1157	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:45:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Tch Tch wrote: And a bill for the orbital strike ammo... Faction ammo isn't cheap mmkay. True but OB tactical ammo is. I don't understand why Dust players seem to think its expensive to drop an EVE OB. The amount of money it costs to fire an OB is so inconsequential it's not even a thought in a pilot's mind... Oh and for redline tanks just flank with with a team of 3-4 guys fit with suicide AV gear and hot drop him in a militia dropship. No tank can survive 12 AV grenades all at once following with additional AV DPS. Is glorious fun, yes? EDIT: And a fully fit HAV will be able to rep through a Warbarge orbital. If a HAV pops with a warbarge orbital, either it was already hurt, or the pilot needs to learn to fit it better. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 375	Posted - 2013.12.03 02:20:00 - [15] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! Why are you talking about range? The thread is about a section of the playable zone where players can shoot out of across the map yet few if any can return fire. Rail Tanks are not vulnerable to a reasonable tactical response due to the red line. The people they can kill are vulnerable yet struggle to respond. This is the imbalance. I have to risk my dropship to act. as do all but redline players. It is simply not fair. This is exactly the problem, well put judge. I don't have a problem with rails killing me at range, so long as its a fair fight and I can actually engadge them. Otherwise its just bs
True Adamance Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4497	Posted - 2013.12.03 02:23:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Tch Tch wrote: And a bill for the orbital strike ammo... Faction ammo isn't cheap mmkay. True but OB tactical ammo is. I don't understand why Dust players seem to think its expensive to drop an EVE OB. The amount of money it costs to fire an OB is so inconsequential it's not even a thought in a pilot's mind... Oh and for redline tanks just flank with with a team of 3-4 guys fit with suicide AV gear and hot drop him in a militia dropship. No tank can survive 12 AV grenades all at once following with additional AV DPS. Is glorious fun, yes? EDIT: And a fully fit HAV will be able to rep through a Warbarge orbital. If a HAV pops with a warbarge orbital, either it was already hurt, or the pilot needs to learn to fit it better. It costs me about 12K per gun to fire as many OB as I ever would like to. Pokey I had some ass holes try that to me, rush me, I fell back to the redline, and they tried to suicide AV me over and over again from the edge of the redline...needless to say I racked up about 10 kills darting in an out of cover. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 22	Posted - 2013.12.03 02:40:00 - [17] - Quote Oh I know how much ammo costs. It is tiny in proportion to anything else in Eve and is very cheap when you manufacture your own - i used to fly frigates that were all self manufactured from the ship to the modules to the various ammo types. But LP ammo does cost more and it would be to add insult to injury to go: Redline Orbital Strike Tank 500,000 isk Ammo 2 isk Tankers tears, priceless Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 134	Posted - 2013.12.03 02:49:00 - [18] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! He hould have driven into the center of the map, got out his tank a tried using AV nades on your python. The rail tanks were designed specifically for what happened, they dont render infantry very well anymore, they need to get close to installations to render them. The only thing they render at range is enemy vehicles. working as intended I agree, but tanks shouldnt actually be active until out of redline. I never redline camp, so boring! Go out and shoot! Blow up things people! Stop being an emo tanker! Been hunting Graboids in my Kubera since 2012
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 378	Posted - 2013.12.03 02:54:00 - [19] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a ****. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. That's like someone asking for a ceiling limit of 140 m so that dropships cannot escape from swarm launchers of any variant. Do You agree to this height change? If not say goodbye to your hypocritical proposal. Also, can infantry hide inside of buildings to get away from tanks? Yes? Why can't tanks use the redline to get away from infantry? Suddenly unfair to you? Also hypocrisy. :/ That's like complaining that a sniper can shoot you from further away than your AR can reach, then throwing a fit about it. If you can read this, it means you are reading.* Unless you are skimming
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8211	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:03:00 - [20] - Quote I think long range artillery cannons would be the hard counter for red line railguns, but that's not till 4087 so ISK / Vids / Stream

True Adamance Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4499	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:05:00 - [21] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Oh I know how much ammo costs. It is tiny in proportion to anything else in Eve and is very cheap when you manufacture your own - i used to fly frigates that were all self manufactured from the ship to the modules to the various ammo types. But LP ammo does cost more and it would be to add insult to injury to go: Redline Orbital Strike Tank 500,000 isk Ammo 2 isk Tankers tears, priceless 2 ISK isn't enough to even buy one turrets worth of OB rounds. 1 Gun will not take out a tank you need 7 of those bad boys..... launched from an Apocalypse..... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 210	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:07:00 - [22] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a *****. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. I'm not a tanker but I have to ask .. whats the difference between a Tank retreating to the redline and a dropship flying so high up in the sky that they can't be hit ???? My Theme
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 22	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:20:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Tch Tch wrote: Oh I know how much ammo costs. It is tiny in proportion to anything else in Eve and is very cheap when you manufacture your own - i used to fly frigates that were all self manufactured from the ship to the modules to the various ammo types. But LP ammo does cost more and it would be to add insult to injury to go: Redline Orbital Strike Tank 500,000 isk Ammo 2 isk Tankers tears, priceless 2 ISK isn't enough to even buy one turrets worth of OB rounds. 1 Gun will not take out a tank you need 7 of those bad boys..... launched from an Apocalypse..... It's not the literal cost that's important, its the idea that they get billed for it too that would add insult to injury. Also at this point as the economies are separate a Dusk isk does not equal an eve isk anymore then it equals an Icelandic one. They each have a different value. It does have a real world example where Chinese authorities charge the family of executed prisoners the cost of the bullet. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2683	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:21:00 - [24] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a ***. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. what>? Wait till Swarms Get the Range/Damage nerf and then with the everlasting Tanker QQ , even Forge guns might get a Range Nerf. THEN WHO WILL STOP RED LINE RAIL TANKS?** Yeah, guess you are not seeing the big picture about AV nerfing... heh.. Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 762	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:32:00 - [25] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a ****. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. I'm not a tanker but I have to ask .. whats the difference between a Tank retreating to the redline and a dropship flying so high up in the sky that they can't be hit ???? Exactly. I redline tank on my non tanker char in a militia tank when I need to push a better fit standard tank off a portion of the field. I shoot a dropship that can't evade. I miss the DS that can. I fly DS. I don't mind a redline rail tank any more than a rail tank being anywhere else and my team can't take it out. Not really a difference. The redline represents the enemy front where you just can't push further into. There's a place where artillery fire should be able to set up. Artillery weapons/vehicle would not nor should be staged inside a danger zone. The solution: make the maps bigger for artillery and vehicle warfare. Right now these maps are not where a tank would roll into unless it was on the way to an actual war zone. The present maps are like glorified, bowl shaped football fields. Tanks aren't going to patrol around in little circles especially with magical fantasy weapons like a forge gun or swarm launcher on the field. Due to it being a game though people want to play with tanks and DS but have no appropriate amount of field to play on. "It's made with bits of real Gallente. So you know it's good."* -GÇö Brian Fantana paraphrased
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 375	Posted - 2013.12.03 07:37:00 - [26] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a *****. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. I'm not a tanker but I have to ask .. whats the difference between a Tank retreating to the redline and a dropship flying so high up in the sky that they can't be hit ???? Dropships flying high up does not make them completely safe, where as the redline completely protects from any form of engadgement except orbitals. A rail tank can use a slight incline (or any mountain in the redline) to elevate their turret enough to hit dropships at the flight ceiling. Another dropship can engadge them if they fly higher. Point is a dropship threat can still be engaged if they use height to their advantage, a rail tank deep in the red line is untouchable yet still remains a threat. Also dropships that fly high and out of danger it can't aim down and blanket the ground with missiles. If a dropship retreats that high it is no longer a threat to the battlefield, and can still be engadged.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 266	Posted - 2013.12.03 07:38:00 - [27] - Quote Numnutz, you on Dust right now? I have something to show you. Also, redlining is for cowards. Names of playstyles
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 375	Posted - 2013.12.03 07:46:00 - [28] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Something must be done about these. Just lost a python to a rail tank that went allllllll the way back into his redline much farther than I could chase. My gunner and I almost go him too before he started running back into his red like a ***. My proposal is that no vehicle should be able to shoot from the friendly redline, tanks, dropships lavs, none of them. what>? Wait till Swarms Get the Range/Damage nerf and then with the everlasting Tanker QQ , even Forge guns might get a Range Nerf. THEN WHO WILL STOP RED LINE RAIL TANKS?** Yeah, guess you are not seeing the big picture about AV nerfing... heh.. Swarms were bull and you know it. RLRT have been problems since chromosome, I don't think av has been or will be the solution to it. I don't believe any vehicle should be able to engage enemies from the redline, especialy when they can one shot infantry and two shot vehicles. It should be about risk/reward. No risk, no reward. simple as that.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 375	Posted - 2013.12.03 07:47:00 - [29] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Numnutz, you on Dust right now? I have something to show you. Also, redlining is for cowards. Not currently but I'll be on tomorrow
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 267	Posted - 2013.12.03 07:48:00 - [30] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Numnutz, you on Dust right now? I have something to show you. Also, redlining is for cowards. Not currently but I'll be on tomorrow I'll send you mail right now, get in friends of destruction chat, I'll see you. Names of playstyles

Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 375	Posted - 2013.12.03 08:06:00 - [31] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: That's like someone asking for a ceiling limit of 140 m so that dropships cannot escape from swarm launchers of any variant. Do You agree to this height change? If not say goodbye to your hypocritical proposal. Also, can infantry hide inside of buildings to get away from tanks? Yes? Why can't tanks use the redline to get away from infantry? Suddenly unfair to you? Also hypocrisy. :/ That's like complaining that a sniper can shoot you from further away than your AR can reach, then throwing a fit about it. I'm not saying that tanks cannot go into the redline, I'm simply saying they cannot fire their gun when in the redline. Yes infantry can hide in buildings, like how tanks can hide behind buildings and mountains or in the redline. Again not saying they cannot enter the redline, I'm saying they should not be able to engage from the redline. Can a tank still kill a player in a building? Yes. If a sniper shoots at an ar player and he complains a sniper has more range than his assault rifle than he is an idiot. An intelligent ar player would find his position, find a route to close the distance and reengage the sniper on better terms preferably within his range where his weapon has the advantage. Now let's take that same situation but apply it to the topic at hand. The intelligent assault rifle player is hit by a powerful sniper and takes cover. He manages to locate the sniper. However the sniper is located on a mountain in the redline and even if he managed to close the distance without getting two shotted he will not be able to get close enough to engage with his assault rifle due to the redline. So the sniper is safe with no risk of any player (except another sniper) being able to kill him. This leaves the afore mentioned assault rifle player a few options, try to run into the redline and engage the sniper which will cost him his suit, run cover to cover and pray he doesn't get a hit, run out and die, or call another sniper for help. To make it abundantly clear, this is what I'm griping about. No vehicle should be able to engage from the redline with no risk, which is currently only rail tanks.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 269	Posted - 2013.12.03 08:20:00 - [32] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Numnutz, you on Dust right now? I have something to show you. Also, redlining is for cowards. Not currently but I'll be on tomorrow I'll send you mail right now, get in friends of destruction chat, I'll see you. EDIT: What's your EVE pilot's name? Reposting because Numnutz missed it. Names of playstyles
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 375	Posted - 2013.12.03 08:28:00 - [33] - Quote Cpt numnutz nuttingtons
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 301	Posted - 2013.12.03 08:29:00 - [34] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: How dare a long range attack vehicle, obviously designed to only kill other vehicles at range kill a vehicle at range!!! He hould have driven into the center of the map, got out his tank a tried using AV nades on your python. The rail tanks were designed specifically for what happened, they dont render infantry very well anymore, they need to get close to installations to render them. The only thing they render at range is enemy vehicles. working as intended Funny enough but I rarely see redline tanks when other tanks are on the map, but I do see redline tanks when there is no other tank that can shoot them. I guess they are sitting there just to look at how infantry perform...
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 269	Posted - 2013.12.03 08:29:00 - [35] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Cpt numnutz nuttingtons You can log in to EVE Gate, right? Do it. Names of playstyles
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 924	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:18:00 - [36] - Quote Nothing should be allowed to shoot from the redline period, or in. Since when can you score from out of bounds? If two opposing players are facing each other and one is 1" in the redline, they both should be able to shoot one another and do ZERO damage. But, the solution to red line tanks and either: ignore them, drop and Orbital, Have 6 FGs fire on it at once, or use your own rail tank to neutralize it. Remember, tankers are cowards, because their HAVs cost a lot of money. They'll back peddle at the first sign of confrontation. You give that tank enough grief, he'll either recall, or be in effective for the rest of the match.


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