DUST Search - Sighting Lasers for the Forge Gun

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

"The laser feeds data to the onboard computer that adjusts for the target material and range, ensuring a solid hit."

Add this flavor text to the forge gun description, and viola. Laser that doesn't help out forge gunners, but is visible for vehicles and infantry. Alternatively, this laser can mark only vehicles, making forge guns an AV only weapon, just like the swarm launcher is. In any case, the ability to see where a forge gunner is immensely helps out vehicles, especially with the emphasis on hardeners now.

But that addition implies that the laser does supply a benefit by helping to optimize damage, which it doesn't. Still, if this was to be done, then every direct fire weapon should have a system that does the exact same thing for the target and all weapons should be adjusted to have a max range travel time to match the forge.

As long as all weapons can deal the same alpha damage as a forge gun.

It would be optimizing damage, to the damage values it has now. We pretend the laser has been there all along, but we weren't acknowledging its existence. The other weapons wouldn't need a laser for optimization, their mechanisms for accuracy are optics, such as ACOGs and iron sights. Whereas the forge gun has no optic, since its so massive. Therefore, this laser would represent that optic lore-wise, but gameplay-wise, it would serve as an identifier for vehicles to get their hardeners turned on.

Effectively, yes.

Actually, this could easily be combined with the concept presented here to implement an audible lock-on warning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_gqG4bNaeo

Indicating the shooter on your screen and on your map may be a little too much, but offering an audible warning like he suggests could also be initiated by the "aiming lasers" contacting your vehicle, thus allowing you to still have the warning even if you don't constantly drive around in 3rd person.


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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 858	Posted - 2013.12.02 00:57:00 - [1] - Quote Wow, I actually like this. This might be the warning every vehicle pilot needs in 1.7 to activate their hardeners before their shields go down with one shot, rendering their hardeners useless. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 859	Posted - 2013.12.02 02:41:00 - [2] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: "The laser feeds data to the onboard computer that adjusts for the target material and range, ensuring a solid hit." Add this flavor text to the forge gun description, and viola. Laser that doesn't help out forge gunners, but is visible for vehicles and infantry. Alternatively, this laser can mark only vehicles, making forge guns an AV only weapon, just like the swarm launcher is. In any case, the ability to see where a forge gunner is immensely helps out vehicles, especially with the emphasis on hardeners now. But that addition implies that the laser does supply a benefit by helping to optimize damage, which it doesn't. Still, if this was to be done, then every direct fire weapon should have a system that does the exact same thing for the target and all weapons should be adjusted to have a max range travel time to match the forge. As long as all weapons can deal the same alpha damage as a forge gun. It would be optimizing damage, to the damage values it has now. We pretend the laser has been there all along, but we weren't acknowledging its existence. The other weapons wouldn't need a laser for optimization, their mechanisms for accuracy are optics, such as ACOGs and iron sights. Whereas the forge gun has no optic, since its so massive. Therefore, this laser would represent that optic lore-wise, but gameplay-wise, it would serve as an identifier for vehicles to get their hardeners turned on. Effectively, yes. Actually, this could easily be combined with the concept presented here to implement an audible lock-on warning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_gqG4bNaeo Indicating the shooter on your screen and on your map may be a little too much, but offering an audible warning like he suggests could also be initiated by the "aiming lasers" contacting your vehicle, thus allowing you to still have the warning even if you don't constantly drive around in 3rd person. It's perfectly reasonable for the vehicle to detect such EM radiation used for targeting systems and then offer a warning that it is being locked onto or tracked. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 859	Posted - 2013.12.02 02:47:00 - [3] - Quote And I just realized, that with this kind of an early warning system, our hardeners will be equivalent to flares or smoke screens. Instead of popping out flares, you kick in the hardener to absorb the damage. Also, the lore for swarms states that they can't be defeated by simple countermeasures, so the only other way would be to enhance your resistance against them. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 863	Posted - 2013.12.02 06:23:00 - [4] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: But in all things I've seen in this game, one player's "effective" is another players "issue". I've read/heard dropship/HAV pilots actually stating that infantry based AV should be an annoyance, not a legitimate threat. The "only a HAV should make me sweat" mentality. Others stating that it should take a team of at least 3+ proto forge gunners to take their single manned HAV down. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the forge gun to kill a well fit unhardened HAV in one shot, but it shouldn't take six or more with a reload delay every four shots either. From what I understand of the new system, forges may be able to take out an unhardened HAV in two to four shots (depending on the forge gun) but, while the hardeners are on, it's going to take considerably more. Catching an HAV by surprise will become a necessity. The root of this whole problem is the "windows of opportunity." Vehicles have only two states they can exist in as of 1.7: hardened mode with 10k+ EHP or vulnerable mode with considerably less HP. Shield vehicles are on the downside of this because their HP ceilings have been reduced. With the forge guns staying as they are, it will pretty much be a necessity for shield vehicles to activate hardeners moments after leaving the redline, otherwise they risk getting most, if not all of their shields blown away by one shot. They will be able to see only a few seconds of battle before running back to the redline before their hardeners deactivate. I will also speculate about armor vehicles. They have higher HP ceilings, but their regeneration is much lower (shield boosters grant instantaneous HP boosts while armor repairers have a slow constant repair rate). A single forge gun shot on an armor vehicle won't be as dramatic as if it were on a shield vehicle, but a good chunk of armor will still go away with no means of regaining it quickly. Also with active armor resists being less than shield resists, armor will still feel a lot of damage even when hardened. I really don't think that this can play out well if forge guns remain unchanged. I imagine it looking like this for every vehicle: Start out in redline Go towards battle Activate hardeners once out of the redline Shoot stuff for a few seconds Run back to the redline Wait for modules to cooldown Repeat I believe that hardeners should be activated only when the vehicle gets targeted by AV. And in order for that to happen, we need warning systems that give us maybe a few seconds at most of a warning. This way, vehicles can remain on the battlefield for as long as they need to without being reliant on the active/cooldown cycle of the active hardeners. Only when they are needed should hardeners be activated and offer the vehicle protection as it either engages the threat or retreats. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32