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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
179
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reduce the effectiveness of damage mods across the board. I've heard 2%/4%/7% for std/adv/pro. Now that they deal less damage...
Give assaults a role bonus that increases damage mod effectiveness by such a percent that it brings them back to their original effectiveness.
A logi should be able to stack damage mods if they want. But an assault should be able to do it better. Now it takes logos more damage mods to reach the equivalent of an assault suit. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4139
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes because a 1%/1%/3% damage reduction is totally going to solve this problem.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
180
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why not make it a 50% cut in effectiveness? Te numbers can be whatever. The concept remains the same: remove a percentile of the damage from them, and give assaults a role bonus that brings damage mods back to their original effectiveness.
This balances logis against assaults. TTK is a separate issue. |
Thorn Badblood
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
71
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lower CPU and PG on Logis so they can't fit everything without sacrificing some tank or DPS. Change the racial bonus on Gallente suits.
Increase CPU and PG on assaults and add a hi or low slot depending on the race.
D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
180
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thorn Badblood wrote:Lower CPU and PG on Logis so they can't fit everything without sacrificing some tank or DPS. Change the racial bonus on Gallente suits.
Increase CPU and PG on assaults and add a hi or low slot depending on the race. Logos should be more tanky than assaults. Assaults should deal more damage than logis. This is there tradeoffs, and how they balance against each other. As of now, logis can do more damage and have more tank. The role bonus corrects this, and doesn't hurt logibros at the same time.
I've already been proposing making the shield recharge bonus a damage bonus, but a role bonus increasing damage mod effectiveness makes things balance easier. Your suggestions would hurt logibros as well, which isn't fair to them. |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
581
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think all ideas for this (expressed throughout the forums) have some merit except the removal of the light weapon slot.
Munch
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
As do I. Logis need to kill, plain and simple. But assaults need to be able to kill better. This goes toward fixing the imbalance. Perhaps not all the way, but a step in the right direction. |
Thorn Badblood
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
71
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
A logi isn't supposed to be tanky, its supposed to be versatile. Right now its so versatile it can fit everything it wants and can outclass all other suits. Adding a role bonus won't change this.
D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
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Cody Sietz
Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance
1646
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Reduce the effectiveness of damage mods across the board. I've heard 2%/4%/7% for std/adv/pro. Now that they deal less damage...
Give assaults a role bonus that increases damage mod effectiveness by such a percent that it brings them back to their original effectiveness.
A logi should be able to stack damage mods if they want. But an assault should be able to do it better. Now it takes logos more damage mods to reach the equivalent of an assault suit. I've said to give Logis a higher stacking penalty.
People pissed.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Reduce the effectiveness of damage mods across the board. I've heard 2%/4%/7% for std/adv/pro. Now that they deal less damage...
Give assaults a role bonus that increases damage mod effectiveness by such a percent that it brings them back to their original effectiveness.
A logi should be able to stack damage mods if they want. But an assault should be able to do it better. Now it takes logos more damage mods to reach the equivalent of an assault suit. I've said to give Logis a higher stacking penalty. People pissed. This changes established mechanics, making one item have a different penalty than others. Plus, CCP would have to write a separate formula just for this one module. A role bonus let's them use the existing formula. |
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ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
179
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Posted - 2013.11.30 16:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Assaults are Frontline units. AKA Pawns. Don't Nerf the back line (Knights, Rooks, Bishops,) because pawns are week. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2013.11.30 17:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
How is this a Nerf? |
emtbraincase
Falconpunch Hatesurfers
33
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Posted - 2013.11.30 17:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:How is this a Nerf? Because for those of us who use Logi's as Proto Equipment carrying cases, instead of as mobile turrets, any larger reduction in CPU/PG would not allow me to carry my Proto equipment into battle and still bring my Dren AR to protect myself. Taking anything away from logi's now will only serve to make life even harder for those who aren't logi-tanking. Stop trying to nerf Logi and Buff the rest instead. I've got several posts for this very reason
Leave my Logi alone, and give people a better reason to play something else (like bonus plates for heavies and bonus damage mods for assaults). As it stands, almost no suit can do it's role better than a logi can do it. Versatility should require a sacrifice (be it damage, armor, shields, etc.), but that sacrifice should be in the form of a boost to other fits, not weakening the logi. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2013.11.30 17:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
emtbraincase wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:How is this a Nerf? Because for those of us who use Logi's as Proto Equipment carrying cases, instead of as mobile turrets, any larger reduction in CPU/PG would not allow me to carry my Proto equipment into battle and still bring my Dren AR to protect myself. Taking anything away from logi's now will only serve to make life even harder for those who aren't logi-tanking. Stop trying to nerf Logi and Buff the rest instead. I've got several posts for this very reason Leave my Logi alone, and give people a better reason to play something else (like bonus plates for heavies and bonus damage mods for assaults). As it stands, almost no suit can do it's role better than a logi can do it. Versatility should require a sacrifice (be it damage, armor, shields, etc.), but that sacrifice should be in the form of a boost to other fits, not weakening the logi. Did you read my post? This does not hurt CPU or pg at all. Just reduce the effectiveness of damage mods, and give assaults a role bonus for damage mod effectiveness. Where did you get Nerf from that? I'm being sincere. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
244
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Posted - 2013.11.30 18:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Its hard to balance this, and actually introducing a skill which only favors dmg mods, reduces the versatility and degrades ALL assault suit to the same fit/gamestyle: dmg mod and armor stacking.
What about caldari for example? they are build to shield tank and they would not get any advantage from that bonus.
Dmg mods are not the answer, it has to be like an inbuilt dmg mod, rather than a skill favoring those.
From what I read so far I liked the idea with reducing the dmg output on logi suits by gimping there dmg by a set percentage.(read something between 20-50%, I think something around 25-30% would be a viable option) Why?
Because ttk is already very low and lets say we have a +2%dmg skill on assaults, this would be another 10% ONTOP of proficiency and possible dmg mods, I only can imagine the rivers of tears...
I really think they should do the dmg nerf to logis, not to give that class a hit, but the main idea about logis is about supporting their team, a gimped dmg ould still be a viable support and turn the role in the direction its actually designed for wothout breaking them by reducing them to sidearms
another one bites the Dust...
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The Baby Shaker
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.11.30 18:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just make them have to have all equipment slots filled. This would stop them from being able to tank as much and would weed out the true logis from the rest. And since im running out of skills to spec into, im ready to hop on the logi bandwagon and have one nasty slayer suit |
emtbraincase
Falconpunch Hatesurfers
34
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Posted - 2013.11.30 18:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
That is about the only way to nerf a logi without altering the suit makeup. They will always be able to stack more mods than anyone else, so unless that is changed there will be no way to nerf a logi unless you either take away slots or PG/CPU. Either of those would penalize someone like myself (who dies much more often than I need to, see also "rep tools don't fire projectiles") just to get back at those people using logi's to slay people instead of reviving and repping them.
So again, please don't nerf my Logi, just give those who want to mainly kill with it a better alternative. Built in bonuses are the only way I can think of without weakening a Logi, used for repping, to the point of uselessness. Unless people are just hating on Logi's in general, regardless of playstyle, any nerf will mean those of us non-proto rep/rev logi are gonna be finding a new line of work. If that is the goal, then please nerf away. I would rather see Assaults be able to deal more damage, Heavies take more damage, and Scouts avoid conflict easier as opposed to logi's having some random weakening implemented that means I can't protect myself because a group of people thought Duvolle's, cmplx dmg, and proto logi suits were a great combo (they are, I'm sure) and others thought they were satan
Again, leave the logi alone, and make better alternatives. If something can kill faster than a logi, those you are upset with will flock there. |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
585
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Posted - 2013.12.01 01:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Assaults are Frontline units. AKA Pawns. Don't Nerf the back line (Knights, Rooks, Bishops,) because pawns are week.
Well said.
Munch
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Shruikan Iceeye
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
113
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Posted - 2013.12.01 01:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just dont let them use ARs |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
99
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Posted - 2013.12.01 01:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Message from Godin: Nah, some Logi's don't put on damage mods, yet still does insane damage (yea, I know, shocking). Just give them an outright damage nerf |
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
585
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Posted - 2013.12.01 01:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
emtbraincase wrote:That is about the only way to nerf a logi without altering the suit makeup. They will always be able to stack more mods than anyone else, so unless that is changed there will be no way to nerf a logi unless you either take away slots or PG/CPU. Either of those would penalize someone like myself (who dies much more often than I need to, see also "rep tools don't fire projectiles") just to get back at those people using logi's to slay people instead of reviving and repping them.
So again, please don't nerf my Logi, just give those who want to mainly kill with it a better alternative. Built in bonuses are the only way I can think of without weakening a Logi, used for repping, to the point of uselessness. Unless people are just hating on Logi's in general, regardless of playstyle, any nerf will mean those of us non-proto rep/rev logi are gonna be finding a new line of work. If that is the goal, then please nerf away. I would rather see Assaults be able to deal more damage, Heavies take more damage, and Scouts avoid conflict easier as opposed to logi's having some random weakening implemented that means I can't protect myself because a group of people thought Duvolle's, cmplx dmg, and proto logi suits were a great combo (they are, I'm sure) and others thought they were satan
Again, leave the logi alone, and make better alternatives. If something can kill faster than a logi, those you are upset with will flock there.
In order to preserve the intended use of each suit perhaps CCP should consider giving each type of suit a focussed bonus that directly boosts the suits intended role.
Specifically, the assault class needs a boost that will make it the preferred choice for those wanting to do CQC. Increased armor, PG/CPU or perhaps an extra high slot might help. Boosting stamina or speed might also be useful. Any of these things or a combination thereof will help.
Munch
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8123
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Posted - 2013.12.01 02:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Except for my MD and sidearm fittings, I don't really use damage mods on my logi suit.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
597
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Posted - 2013.12.01 02:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
i use dren assault/assault rifles with no damage mods and have received hate mail calling me allsorts. regardless of any changes people are always going to call us slayer logis as long as we kill with light weapons. that being said, call me what you want just stay away from my ******* light weapon.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:emtbraincase wrote:That is about the only way to nerf a logi without altering the suit makeup. They will always be able to stack more mods than anyone else, so unless that is changed there will be no way to nerf a logi unless you either take away slots or PG/CPU. Either of those would penalize someone like myself (who dies much more often than I need to, see also "rep tools don't fire projectiles") just to get back at those people using logi's to slay people instead of reviving and repping them.
So again, please don't nerf my Logi, just give those who want to mainly kill with it a better alternative. Built in bonuses are the only way I can think of without weakening a Logi, used for repping, to the point of uselessness. Unless people are just hating on Logi's in general, regardless of playstyle, any nerf will mean those of us non-proto rep/rev logi are gonna be finding a new line of work. If that is the goal, then please nerf away. I would rather see Assaults be able to deal more damage, Heavies take more damage, and Scouts avoid conflict easier as opposed to logi's having some random weakening implemented that means I can't protect myself because a group of people thought Duvolle's, cmplx dmg, and proto logi suits were a great combo (they are, I'm sure) and others thought they were satan
Again, leave the logi alone, and make better alternatives. If something can kill faster than a logi, those you are upset with will flock there. In order to preserve the intended use of each suit perhaps CCP should consider giving each type of suit a focussed bonus that directly boosts the suits intended role. Specifically, the assault class needs a boost that will make it the preferred choice for those wanting to do CQC. Increased armor, PG/CPU or perhaps an extra high slot might help. Boosting stamina or speed might also be useful. Any of these things or a combination thereof will help. Munch This is why I proposed damage modules as a role bonus. They are better at killing than slayer logos, while logibros get more health, as survivability is the logis tradeoff for less damage. |
Zekain K
Expert Intervention Caldari State
663
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Posted - 2013.12.01 03:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hows about we make it so damage mods simply do not work on logi suits.
CALDARI MASTER RACE
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
191
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Posted - 2013.12.02 06:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:Hows about we make it so damage mods simply do not work on logi suits. because that's the freedom of New Eden. You can fit whatever you so please. However, some modules only really work well with certain suits.
In EVE, there is nothing stopping me from taking a lgi ship and fitting combat modules on it. Only I'm going to die if I go against a ship that was built with combat in mind. Conversely, a combat ship can fit all the logi modules it pleases. But It's not going to be anywhere near as good as a logi ship with those modules.
I propose making the shield recharge bonus be a 2% increase in damage per level, and give assaults a role bonus that improves damage mod efficiency. Current TTK makes this seem extreme, but TTK needs to be fixed across the board regardless of the balance between assault and logis. Therefore, these changes still hold merit. I also propose removing the 10% damage buff from all weapons to help with TTK. |
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