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Another suit balance thread (I hate myself for this): moved from General

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Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 03:04:00 - [1] - Quote LOTS of ideas getting thrown around regarding the logi, and I'm sad to see that most are total crap. Most of the complaint around Logi's boils down to lots of CPU/PG and ability to fit massive damage and tank while completely forsaking / minimizing equipment use. The 'assault logi' that people complain about, if you will. Some people say the logi needs to be nerfed, some say the assault suits need to be buffed. Why not take a fresh look at them instead? Assault suits have a ridiculous 5% shield bonus that does not belong, and BOTH of it's bonuses come from the relevant assault suit skill. Instead, why not have one skill liked to the generic 'Medium' frame skill, which can also open the door for the generic suits to also have a minor bonus based on the same skill. This makes them a bit more viable for newer players. On the assault suits, the appropriate prerequisite 'medium' suit skill could be tied to the suit itself, and the 'assault' skill tied to a class of weapons, much like how it is now but suit-specific and with better bonuses. Example: (numbers are just examples too) Amarr Assault 'Amarr Medium Dropsuits' skill - 5% increase in effectiveness of armour modules per level 'Amarr Assault Dropsuits' skill - 5% faster laser cooldown per level Amarr Basic Medium 'Amarr Medium Dropsuits' skill - 2% increase in effectiveness of armour modules per level This opens the door for EVE-style advancement to higher tiers of dropsuits while making the game more accessible to new players. Logistic suits now. Let me be clear, I want Logi suits to remain viable and durable suits that act as force multipliers, but I would like to see this (and I think I'm not alone in this) through proper logistics-oriented bonuses. This could easily be done by changing the bonuses around a bit, and adding a unique 'role' bonus to cut equipment CPU/PG usage while reducing the 'true' CPU/PGU of the suit to bring fitting of other modules in line with the assault suits. Example: Amarr Logistics 'Amarr Medium Dropsuits' skill - 5% armour repairer effectiveness per level 'Amarr Logistics Dropsuits' skill - 5% effectiveness of armour modules per level (The Amarr logi would remain the most combat focused logistics suit, but instead of a double bonus to armour repair it would get a bonus to its armour amount) Role bonus - 50% reduction in CPU/PG usage of equipment. With new bonuses, especially the role bonus, the suits can come together as the masters of special equipment, while retaining uniqueness through their other bonuses. Gallente logi's could have a bonus to their equipment effectiveness, minmatar could retain their awesome hacking abilities, and Caldari to shield durability, etc. Sky is the limit for possibilities. Hell, while we're giving logi suits a role bonus, we could give every second-tier suit a role bonus, like making the gallente assault's 25% weapon cpu/pg reduction a set bonus for all assault suits to open up their fitting options. Give Commando's a role bonus to the reduction of light weapon PG/CPU to help with its limited slot layout. Give Sentinels a role bonus to the effectiveness of shield/armour modules to make them truly feel like behemoths. Give Scouts a role bonus to the effectiveness of all sensor-related upgrades to make them see better and further, while staying hidden themselves. Etc, etc. At this point I'm ranting, so I'll stop. I'd like to see how people respond to this.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 173	Posted - 2013.11.29 04:37:00 - [2] - Quote The only reason I will argue against you is that Amarr suits are about having medium amounts of armor that rep fast, whereas Gallente are about lots of armor that rep slowly. Therefore, Amarr logistics should rep fast, and have moderate armor. other than that, I agree with you.
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 146	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:05:00 - [3] - Quote That is actually contrary to the established eve trends, where the amarr rely on super heavy armour, and the gallente prefer less armour augmented with active armour repair. Not that that is a BAD thing; I've always said that dust doesn't need to match eve precicely, since the realities of ground warfare are much different than starships. That being said, I would almost argue that Amarr suits seem to be geared toward massive hp values through dual tanking, rather than armour repair.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 0	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:10:00 - [4] - Quote If I was in charge of the Dust 514 project this game would of looked like EVE's Fist person shooter brother rather then distant cousin I hate what they have done with the skill trees the weapons and dropsuit trees in particular and would of mirrored EVE online in what they have done however i can come half way with what they have done and suggest the following. For example: Dropsuit operation Amarr Dropsuits Caldari Dropsuits Gallente Dropsuits Minmatar Dropsuits all 4 requiring dropsuit oporation level 1 Assault Dropsuit operation requiring dropsuit operation 3 armor & shield upgrades 5 Logistics Dropsuit operation requiring Dropsuit operation 3 Core upgrades 5 electronics & engineering 3 or 4 Scout Dropsuit operation requiring Dropsuit operation 3 dropsuit upgrades 4 biotic upgrades 5 Now for the Assault suits i would just look at the assault frigates and give them the same slot layout and CPU/PG and cut the shield and armor in half like so. IT may need more CPU one of the things this game is missing is resistance plating for infantry its really sad if you ask me and including shield and armor resistances would help bring a rock paper scissors aspect to the game making some lame tactics not work all the time like grenade spam on a nano hive Amarr Retribution Assault Dropsuit Shield Capacity 109 HPShield Em Damage Resistance 0 % Shield Explosive Damage Resistance 87.5 % Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance 70 % Shield Thermal Damage Resistance 20 % Armor Hitpoints 609 HP Armor Em Damage Resistance 50 % Armor Explosive Damage Resistance 80 % Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance 62.5 % Armor Thermal Damage Resistance 35 % powergrid Output 56 MW CPU OutputCPU Output 140 tf Light weapon, Side arm, grenade 1 equipment these are the high slots in EVE Med SlotsMed Slots 2 this is were weapon scrips shield upgrades and speed boosters go Low SlotsLow Slots 5 this is where damage mods and armor modules go For the bonuses they would be on the Dropsuits not the skills the bonus numbers are unaltered form the retribution's and could be adjusted for Dust 514 Amarr Dropsuit Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Laser weapon reduction to heat build up per level 7.5% bonus to Dropsuit Scan precision per level, or some kind of sensor bonus. Assault Dropsuit Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Laser weapon Optimal Range per level 5% bonus to Laser weapon Damage per level This game is part of EVE and it has been around for a while i don't see why not take whats already there and tweak it for Dust. oh well this is barley the tip of the ice burg of my ideas for this game just throwing it out there for now.
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 148	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:22:00 - [5] - Quote @Dunce I think one of the big issues with mirroring EVE is that concepts like Tech-2 do not work well. Stepping up from a basic suit to a specialized one should be like stepping from a a rookie ship to a base frigate. Stats and specialties change, but only so much. When you go from from a T1 to a T2 frigate, however, the changes are DRASTIC and overpowering. In general, T2 ships are made to hit well above their weight, a concept I believe would be detrimental to DUST. I kind of like the idea of having ONE assault/logistics/scout/etc skill that you can train, and unlocking the different racial ones depends on your skill level in the racial dropsuit skill. I also think that 2 bonuses from each skill is very overkill, not to mention that dropsuit skills improving weapon performance makes little sense, because you can't treat a solider with a gun like a starship. The suit making the gun better seems silly, but then again so are damage modules (can't wait until those are things you put on your gun, and not on your suit)
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 148	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:26:00 - [6] - Quote Not to mention that from a lore perspective, Tech-2 is a fairly new, and very expensive, cutting-edge technological development (all based around a special mineral called Morphite) that would be far too expensive to ever use in something as disposable as dropsuits, weapons, or infantry equipment.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 0	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:54:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah i see your points however i still think they should look at the frigates and have the slot layout the same and like i suggested half the shield and armor so its in line with Dust 514 the Dropsuits that would go into the assault version would look like this: Shield capacity 175 Armor hit points 250 Medium slots 3 Low slots 4 the Caldari would be revers Gallente Shield capacity 200 Armor hit points 225 Med slots 3 low slots 4 Minmatar Shield capacity 213 Armor hit points 213 Med slots 4 low slots 3 I think all the Dust players would welcome this change and for the millitia dropsuits just take away 3 slots but keep at least one med or one low. and with this change the minmatar wouldn't need the 1 passive armor rep they got on their dropsuits because they would have a militia armor repairer in the low slot. I would have the bonuses on the dropsuits still 1 for the normal dropsuits and 2 for the advanced version but for the love of this game for give the same bonus to every one like they are now its pointless the Caldari only benifit from the current assault bonus and the armor repair on the logi is also only realy benafiting the gallente with the current set up. If they would look at the frigates and do the same thing from the start we would have every lite and scout suit by now along with balanced logistics suits also the cammando could be like the destroyers and have a AV bonus to damage has a role maby 25% or more and still carry another light weapon.
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 158	Posted - 2013.11.29 09:55:00 - [8] - Quote So you make equipment cheaper in CPU and pg.......great now the slayer logi can fit equipment too......nope
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 150	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:07:00 - [9] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: So you make equipment cheaper in CPU and pg.......great now the slayer logi can fit equipment too......nope You clearly missed the part about lowering its base pg/cpu


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