DUST Search - About that whole "logis only get sidearms" idea.....

Ryme Intrinseca wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Marston VC wrote:

Philipp Achtel wrote:

Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem.

The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers".

And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought.

Idk what you want then dude, because this game along with just about any other MMO based game is BASED ON NUMBERS. The best way to make assault suits worth it is to either A.) make it so they can fit a ton of stuff in the modules they have. OR B.) make their racial bonus actually valuable.

both of which are viable ways to make these suits worth using.

Gallente assault is the only suit that's underpowered compared to its logistics counterpart. But core mechanics and lack of content can be to blame. (Imagine if we had hybrid sidearms and grenades) The real issue is assaults aren't much different from medium suits to make them attractive compared to logistics. Change some slots around, slight CPU or PG buff, extra base HP, anything to make the suit different would make the suit more worth the SP investment to a discerning eye.

Gallente assault is one of the best assault suits, with Amarr. Minmatar and Caldari look nice until you realize you need to waste a slot on a CPU extender. Basically lots of lows is better than lots of highs when you're CPU/PG limited, which assaults generally are, plus the Gallente has the hybrid weapon fitting bonus.

I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

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Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1299	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote Its gotten to the point to where I wouldn't be "opposed" to it, however there needs to be a lot of things done in order for it to be worthwhile. (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). The first thing that would need to be done is Assault suits across the board should get a CPU/PG BUFF. As it stands right now, assault suits simply DO NOT have enough CPU/PG to use all the modules we should be able to use. I have maximum core skills giving me a +30% to both PG/CPU and I still have to put a CPU/PG upgrade on my minmatar assault. That's just ridiculous. By increasing assault suits PG/CPU I feel assault suits will be much more capable at being...... assault suits. They'll be able to put on that good frontline tank they need in order to actually survive against the newly shortened TTK. Because as it is right now, you have to give up either that sidearm, or maybe even a whole module slot in order to make things fit, and that just doesn't make sense to me. (Especially considering ive done almost everything I can to maximize CPU/PG efficiency). The second thing that would need to be done is an introduction to the rest of the Racial sidearms. After 1.7 the light weapons will have their full racial variants. Being limited to only two (discounting the nova knives) side arms, would severely limit logis in what they can do offensively and even defensively. So I think it would be in everyones best interest to round out the rest of the weapon classes before we go ahead and make drastic balance changes like the one people keep ranting on about. The third and finale thing is this. If were reducing the light weapon slot down to a sidearm only slot, then I want some kind of compensation for it. A little bit more CPU/PG, maybe some kind of extra grenade slot that will allow for two types of grenades. Idc what so long as something is compensating for the drastic loss in potential firepower. And one finale not I would like to mention. If CCP was to take away light weapon slots from logis. What about the Amar logi? Would it just get two sidearm slots? Because I think that would take out A LOT of the appeal in using it. But heyyyyy maybe that's just me? Marston VC, STB director
Hecarim Van Hohen Knights of Eternal Darkness 279	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:41:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: I may have laughed (And before anyone panics, no, we're not swapping logis to sidearms instead of light weapons in 1.7) But yes, assault suits could use a buff and I'll leave that to smarter people than me to discuss. D-í¦¦¦¦i-ó¦¦¦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ç¦íe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Å¦+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-ó¦¦¦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1183	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:46:00 - [3] - Quote I'd kill for 2Sidearm slots on my Minmatar Logi, SMG + SP = precision and CQC murder spray. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 240	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:50:00 - [4] - Quote Im opposed to it only becuase it wouldnt stop the QQ. i run an SMG on my logi and top charts still, limiting me to sidearms does not hamper my ability to slay one bit. and one the folks who support the sidearms only idea figure that out, they will simply switch to some other idea of a nerf that also wont do anything useful. you simply cant prevent logis from killing people, and a good player is just as deadly in a logi as they are in an assault, the only difference is how they will fight you.
Zimander A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 8	Posted - 2013.11.28 18:53:00 - [5] - Quote To fix the Problem of Logi Slayer is simple "U need to stock up your Equipment" slot or the fit will be invigilate and if they remove use of Light Weapon From Logi Then Remove Equipment Slot from Assault
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 434	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:13:00 - [6] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Im opposed to it only becuase it wouldnt stop the QQ. i run an SMG on my logi and top charts still, limiting me to sidearms does not hamper my ability to slay one bit. and one the folks who support the sidearms only idea figure that out, they will simply switch to some other idea of a nerf that also wont do anything useful. you simply cant prevent logis from killing people, and a good player is just as deadly in a logi as they are in an assault, the only difference is how they will fight you. So you're saying that you would win an engadgment against an assault rifle logi? Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2477	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:16:00 - [7] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Im opposed to it only becuase it wouldnt stop the QQ. i run an SMG on my logi and top charts still, limiting me to sidearms does not hamper my ability to slay one bit. and one the folks who support the sidearms only idea figure that out, they will simply switch to some other idea of a nerf that also wont do anything useful. you simply cant prevent logis from killing people, and a good player is just as deadly in a logi as they are in an assault, the only difference is how they will fight you. So you're saying that you would win an engadgment against an assault rifle logi? I do that in a scout suit. Skill will negate any shortcomings of a class. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 A grunt of STB
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 243	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:45:00 - [8] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Im opposed to it only becuase it wouldnt stop the QQ. i run an SMG on my logi and top charts still, limiting me to sidearms does not hamper my ability to slay one bit. and one the folks who support the sidearms only idea figure that out, they will simply switch to some other idea of a nerf that also wont do anything useful. you simply cant prevent logis from killing people, and a good player is just as deadly in a logi as they are in an assault, the only difference is how they will fight you. So you're saying that you would win an engadgment against an assault rifle logi? I do that in a scout suit. Skill will negate any shortcomings of a class. have you met me in game? i dont go anywhere near people, i just blow them up with remote explosives.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2485	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:33:00 - [9] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Im opposed to it only becuase it wouldnt stop the QQ. i run an SMG on my logi and top charts still, limiting me to sidearms does not hamper my ability to slay one bit. and one the folks who support the sidearms only idea figure that out, they will simply switch to some other idea of a nerf that also wont do anything useful. you simply cant prevent logis from killing people, and a good player is just as deadly in a logi as they are in an assault, the only difference is how they will fight you. So you're saying that you would win an engadgment against an assault rifle logi? I do that in a scout suit. Skill will negate any shortcomings of a class. have you met me in game? i dont go anywhere near people, i just blow them up with remote explosives. I'm very happy to hear that. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 A grunt of STB
CharCharOdell 1698	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:44:00 - [10] - Quote and a respec. i doubt anyone skilled into logis expecting to lose their light weapons (between 1 and 4 for most vets) Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1299	Posted - 2013.11.28 21:51:00 - [11] - Quote Zimander wrote: To fix the Problem of Logi Slayer is simple "U need to stock up your Equipment" slot or the fit will be invigilate and if they remove use of Light Weapon From Logi Then Remove Equipment Slot from Assault are you people daft? Even if that was a requirement, all people would have to do is fit a bunch of compact nanohives to counter that! But its not like you would even NEED a bunch of compact nanohives purely because almost every logi suit I know is able to fit all their equipment slots anyway. That "fix" wouldn't fix anything, it would only serve to make the game more annoying to play around with. Marston VC, STB director
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Top Men. 56	Posted - 2013.11.28 23:04:00 - [12] - Quote Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem. The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers". And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1301	Posted - 2013.11.29 14:44:00 - [13] - Quote Philipp Achtel wrote: Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem. The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers". And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought. Idk what you want then dude, because this game along with just about any other MMO based game is BASED ON NUMBERS. The best way to make assault suits worth it is to either A.) make it so they can fit a ton of stuff in the modules they have. OR B.) make their racial bonus actually valuable. both of which are viable ways to make these suits worth using. Marston VC, STB director
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 291	Posted - 2013.11.29 14:50:00 - [14] - Quote Marston VC wrote: (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you? You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8104	Posted - 2013.11.29 14:52:00 - [15] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Marston VC wrote: (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you? You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether. That's cool, they've also said that they don't want them to be slayers, so for me, that's good enough. Anything that nerfs the I win button of logistics is good in my book. Read / Vid / Stream
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1301	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:05:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Marston VC wrote: (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you? You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether. That's cool, they've also said that they don't want them to be slayers, so for me, that's good enough. Anything that nerfs the I win button of logistics is good in my book. Its not an "I win" button though..... I don't know how it constitutes as that. Im not going to argue that assaults are better slayers then logis, but at the same time this isn't as "overpowered" as lets say..... fused locus grenades back in the day. You can actually compete with logi suits. You couldn't compete against instant grenade spam. Marston VC, STB director
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 291	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:12:00 - [17] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Marston VC wrote: (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you? You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether. That's cool, they've also said that they don't want them to be slayers, so for me, that's good enough. Anything that nerfs the I win button of logistics is good in my book. As I've said before, I think the best solution would be to give cal, min, and (maybe) gal assault a little more PG/CPU as that's the biggest thing holding those suits back. If that's still not enough for you we could equalize the base stats (since assaults don't seem to appreciate the advantage they have there anyway) and give assaults one or two more slots than they have now.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4776	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:17:00 - [18] - Quote I honestly can't see how people think these band-aids (sidearm only, PG/CPU nerf, required equipment) are going to solve the real problem that all suits have - Devs are attempting to define roles through slot counts and nothing else. More slots = better slayer (the only battlefield role we have), so of course the Logi is going to come out on top. This system is obviously not working, and all of the suggestions here do nothing but attempt to cripple the Logi and send everyone after the next FotM. Give the second link in my sig a read. It's a proposal to buff all suits in the areas they're supposed to excel at (including the logi). Never forget How to fix the Logi
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1412	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:22:00 - [19] - Quote Being able to only fit 3 maybe 4 Complex Modules on a top tier Proto suit is ridiculous. I shouldn't be able to put Militia **** on it, not forced into it. +1 Cheeseburgers.
Cosgar ParagonX 8083	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:25:00 - [20] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Philipp Achtel wrote: Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem. The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers". And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought. Idk what you want then dude, because this game along with just about any other MMO based game is BASED ON NUMBERS. The best way to make assault suits worth it is to either A.) make it so they can fit a ton of stuff in the modules they have. OR B.) make their racial bonus actually valuable. both of which are viable ways to make these suits worth using. Gallente assault is the only suit that's underpowered compared to its logistics counterpart. But core mechanics and lack of content can be to blame. (Imagine if we had hybrid sidearms and grenades) The real issue is assaults aren't much different from medium suits to make them attractive compared to logistics. Change some slots around, slight CPU or PG buff, extra base HP, anything to make the suit different would make the suit more worth the SP investment to a discerning eye. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 291	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:39:00 - [21] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: I honestly can't see how people think these band-aids (sidearm only, PG/CPU nerf, required equipment) are going to solve the real problem that all suits have - Devs are attempting to define roles through slot counts and nothing else. More slots = better slayer (the only battlefield role we have), so of course the Logi is going to come out on top. This system is obviously not working, and all of the suggestions here do nothing but attempt to cripple the Logi and send everyone after the next FotM. You'd have a point if the only slots were highs and lows. But sidearm and equipment slots make slot-based balancing a perfectly valid approach. A suit with a sidearm is better able to stay in a prolonged firefight, just as a suit with 3 or 4 equipment slots is better at logi stuff than a suit with 1 slot. The main problem is nothing to do with slots, but rather most assault suits' lack of PG/CPU. Quote: Give the second link in my sig a read. It's a proposal to buff all suits in the areas they're supposed to excel at (including the logi) by giving everyone powerful role bonuses. They're apparently unable to code for that. And besides, it would be too late to bring it in now unless they bring in a respec with it. It would be ridiculously unfair to announce that, say, Gallente logi is the specialist medic logi, when people who hate the injector (but are great at other logi stuff) have millions of points in the suit.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 291	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:44:00 - [22] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Marston VC wrote: Philipp Achtel wrote: Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem. The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers". And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought. Idk what you want then dude, because this game along with just about any other MMO based game is BASED ON NUMBERS. The best way to make assault suits worth it is to either A.) make it so they can fit a ton of stuff in the modules they have. OR B.) make their racial bonus actually valuable. both of which are viable ways to make these suits worth using. Gallente assault is the only suit that's underpowered compared to its logistics counterpart. But core mechanics and lack of content can be to blame. (Imagine if we had hybrid sidearms and grenades) The real issue is assaults aren't much different from medium suits to make them attractive compared to logistics. Change some slots around, slight CPU or PG buff, extra base HP, anything to make the suit different would make the suit more worth the SP investment to a discerning eye. Gallente assault is one of the best assault suits, with Amarr. Minmatar and Caldari look nice until you realize you need to waste a slot on a CPU extender. Basically lots of lows is better than lots of highs when you're CPU/PG limited, which assaults generally are, plus the Gallente has the hybrid weapon fitting bonus.
Cosgar ParagonX 8085	Posted - 2013.11.29 15:57:00 - [23] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Cosgar wrote: Marston VC wrote: Philipp Achtel wrote: Assault suits don't need a buff; they need something to distinguish themselves from logis. The fact that the two suits use the same model is indicative of the problem. The answer to "why should I choose an assault over a logi" shouldn't just be "bigger numbers". And sidearm-only logi is a horrible idea. I have no idea why people give it more than a moment's thought. Idk what you want then dude, because this game along with just about any other MMO based game is BASED ON NUMBERS. The best way to make assault suits worth it is to either A.) make it so they can fit a ton of stuff in the modules they have. OR B.) make their racial bonus actually valuable. both of which are viable ways to make these suits worth using. Gallente assault is the only suit that's underpowered compared to its logistics counterpart. But core mechanics and lack of content can be to blame. (Imagine if we had hybrid sidearms and grenades) The real issue is assaults aren't much different from medium suits to make them attractive compared to logistics. Change some slots around, slight CPU or PG buff, extra base HP, anything to make the suit different would make the suit more worth the SP investment to a discerning eye. Gallente assault is one of the best assault suits, with Amarr. Minmatar and Caldari look nice until you realize you need to waste a slot on a CPU extender. Basically lots of lows is better than lots of highs when you're CPU/PG limited, which assaults generally are, plus the Gallente has the hybrid weapon fitting bonus. A bonus for only 3 weapons (while the 4th is barely a weapon) doesn't make the Gallente ass attractive. Minmatar can arguably be considered lacking since the racial only applies to the scrambler pistol's base clip before the operation skill is applied. At least the SMG more than makes up for it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 158	Posted - 2013.11.29 16:02:00 - [24] - Quote Make logis only able to use sidearms but give them 2 sidearm slots
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1303	Posted - 2013.11.29 17:24:00 - [25] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: Make logis only able to use sidearms but give them 2 sidearm slots Then whats the point of the amar logi........ Marston VC, STB director
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 291	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:33:00 - [26] - Quote In frontline military use a sidearm is always a back up weapon. It would make no sense whatsoever to send infantry into combat without a primary weapon.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3874	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:34:00 - [27] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: I may have laughed (And before anyone panics, no, we're not swapping logis to sidearms instead of light weapons in 1.7) But yes, assault suits could use a buff and I'll leave that to smarter people than me to discuss. That quote is my favorite part of all these threads. They were clearly doing an abbreviated version of the thread title like with EVERY OTHER THREAD THEY'VE QUOTED but everyone lost their **** and started panicking about their Logi suits becoming garbage. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 4	Posted - 2013.11.29 19:39:00 - [28] - Quote With the new weapons that have even more range coming a sidearm is going to be even more limited in open ground encounters. There is something on the horizon for logi suits and if past history repeats itself ( Cal Logi) then it will not be good for those of us who are support logis. I commend those of you that have stomped your feet and caused a fit and complained with every ounce of your being for CCP has heard you. May your KDR always be as big as your egos.
Tectonic Fusion 633	Posted - 2013.11.29 19:50:00 - [29] - Quote Marston VC wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Marston VC wrote: (because believe me, my ishukone assault SMG is just as good as an AR). You take down a lot of reds at 40m+ with your SMG, do you? You guys can keep fantasising about sidearm only but CCP have said they won't do it, and it's obvious why. No one would use the logi suit, and lots of people would stop playing altogether. That's cool, they've also said that they don't want them to be slayers, so for me, that's good enough. Anything that nerfs the I win button of logistics is good in my book. Its not an "I win" button though..... I don't know how it constitutes as that. Im not going to argue that assaults are better slayers then logis, but at the same time this isn't as "overpowered" as lets say..... fused locus grenades back in the day. You can actually compete with logi suits. You couldn't compete against instant grenade spam. I could. It was a technique called using the Assault Rifle. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 30	Posted - 2013.11.29 20:21:00 - [30] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Im opposed to it only becuase it wouldnt stop the QQ. i run an SMG on my logi and top charts still, limiting me to sidearms does not hamper my ability to slay one bit. and one the folks who support the sidearms only idea figure that out, they will simply switch to some other idea of a nerf that also wont do anything useful. you simply cant prevent logis from killing people, and a good player is just as deadly in a logi as they are in an assault, the only difference is how they will fight you. So you're saying that you would win an engadgment against an assault rifle logi? I do that in a scout suit. Skill will negate any shortcomings of a class. Exactly. A I've won many a scout vs logi fight simply because the logi has to reload(or catching them reloading0, and that bunny hop will not save you from a good shotgunner. *I fly I shoot I rep I tank/ Heavy, Scout, Assault and Logi at range/ I'm the Jack of all trades/ Master of Some



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