DUST Search - Another SCR Nerf Thread

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Borne Velvalor wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

I'm reserving judgement until I see the new rifles.

Bear in mind that the range buff isn't that significant, honestly. The majority of combat takes place within the current range - the maps are even designed for that kind of range. How often do you need 80m shots in the Gallente maps compared to sub-50m?

I use the TAR and kill enemies beyond my optimal all the time. The TAR optimal is 65m; much higher than the current ScrR and much lower than the 1.7 ScrR. My longest kill is usually around 75m in any given match. Because I have the range, I purposely choose areas where I have long sight lines in a couple of directions to set up shop. Obviously, combat in any sort of enclosed space forces everyone close together, you're right about that.

Also, as the ScrR does not have an ACOG scope, it should be much trickier to use at range, especially against anyone who has the brains to strafe. The new rifles' DPS seems to be around the same as the Assault Rifle, then impacted by spool time and burst delays. In a way, with the Rail Rifle, you've got an Assault Rifle variant (so to speak) with a huge range, too.

Really, I only have a problem with the ScrR when I round a corner, put several rounds into someone, and then they turn and hipfire their ScrR until I'm dead. It kills even faster than an AR in twitchy hands in CQC, which just makes no sense to me whatsoever. It should be a marksman's weapon, not a "lol I can spasm 8 bullets a second at your toe" weapon. I can click a mouse about 9 times a second with a solid effort, 8 times easy. That's up to 970 DPS a second on an Imperial set when a Duvolle with the same set is doing 640. That is a colossal difference.

That's the DPS difference (a little over 50%) between a Militia Assault Rifle with Proficiency 0 and a Balac's GAR-21 with Proficiency 5. You're matching the same set with an AR at less than 6 shots a second. From what I've read of people timing themselves, 6 seems pretty typical. However, many people can hit 8-10 without too much trouble and it's not like you need precise aim when the guy is 5m from you.

THE SCR IS NOT SUPERIOR TO THE AR, if thats what you are implying....
Yes you can do More DPS in a seconds but after you get 1 kill you overheat. The Duvolle has the ability to Kill 3 and up to 5+ enemies IN A ROW, without having to even release the R1 button.

On the rest, i agree. The main issue is the Capability the SCR has at CQ.


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Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1028	Posted - 2013.11.27 23:30:00 - [1] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I can agree to more hip fire spread, but not doing reduced damage as range closes. Full damage out to optimal, but hip fire accuracy prevents cqc dominance. The thing with hipfire spread on a semiautomatic gun that does 100+ damage a shot is that a degree of luck comes into play. I sometimes use my TAR at short range while getting shot at. Half the time most of my bullets connect and the guy dies before he can drop my shields. The other half of the time most of my bullets miss and he tears me a new one. Aisha Ctarl wrote: Checkmate you're now dead to me. SCR is fine as is. The cooldown exploit needs to be addressed. I'd like to see the RoF capped to a reasonable level and the hipfire spread being increased to be slightly more accurate than the TAR. RoF cap would mostly limit turbos and the small percentage of people hitting 900+ DPS. Hipfire spread, simply because it's too accurate. You can't claim the gun's DPS (even lowered for feasibility) is OK because it requires skill when you can just mash the trigger in CQC from the hip and mow everyone down. For everyone wanting a Scrambler Rifle in CQC, I suggest they pick up a Scrambler Pistol. The damage per shot is even higher than the SR, the RoF at PRO tier is high enough that the cap is not very noticeable at all, the hipfire is just as accurate (except when being hit), and it does 4.5x damage to the head. The only large downside is the tiny clip. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1029	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:13:00 - [2] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm reserving judgement until I see the new rifles. Bear in mind that the range buff isn't that significant, honestly. The majority of combat takes place within the current range - the maps are even designed for that kind of range. How often do you need 80m shots in the Gallente maps compared to sub-50m? I use the TAR and kill enemies beyond my optimal all the time. The TAR optimal is 65m; much higher than the current ScrR and much lower than the 1.7 ScrR. My longest kill is usually around 75m in any given match. Because I have the range, I purposely choose areas where I have long sight lines in a couple of directions to set up shop. Obviously, combat in any sort of enclosed space forces everyone close together, you're right about that. Also, as the ScrR does not have an ACOG scope, it should be much trickier to use at range, especially against anyone who has the brains to strafe. The new rifles' DPS seems to be around the same as the Assault Rifle, then impacted by spool time and burst delays. In a way, with the Rail Rifle, you've got an Assault Rifle variant (so to speak) with a huge range, too. Really, I only have a problem with the ScrR when I round a corner, put several rounds into someone, and then they turn and hipfire their ScrR until I'm dead. It kills even faster than an AR in twitchy hands in CQC, which just makes no sense to me whatsoever. It should be a marksman's weapon, not a "lol I can spasm 8 bullets a second at your toe" weapon. I can click a mouse about 9 times a second with a solid effort, 8 times easy. That's up to 970 DPS a second on an Imperial set when a Duvolle with the same set is doing 640. That is a colossal difference. That's the DPS difference (a little over 50%) between a Militia Assault Rifle with Proficiency 0 and a Balac's GAR-21 with Proficiency 5. You're matching the same set with an AR at less than 6 shots a second. From what I've read of people timing themselves, 6 seems pretty typical. However, many people can hit 8-10 without too much trouble and it's not like you need precise aim when the guy is 5m from you. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1029	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:28:00 - [3] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm reserving judgement until I see the new rifles. Bear in mind that the range buff isn't that significant, honestly. The majority of combat takes place within the current range - the maps are even designed for that kind of range. How often do you need 80m shots in the Gallente maps compared to sub-50m? I use the TAR and kill enemies beyond my optimal all the time. The TAR optimal is 65m; much higher than the current ScrR and much lower than the 1.7 ScrR. My longest kill is usually around 75m in any given match. Because I have the range, I purposely choose areas where I have long sight lines in a couple of directions to set up shop. Obviously, combat in any sort of enclosed space forces everyone close together, you're right about that. Also, as the ScrR does not have an ACOG scope, it should be much trickier to use at range, especially against anyone who has the brains to strafe. The new rifles' DPS seems to be around the same as the Assault Rifle, then impacted by spool time and burst delays. In a way, with the Rail Rifle, you've got an Assault Rifle variant (so to speak) with a huge range, too. Really, I only have a problem with the ScrR when I round a corner, put several rounds into someone, and then they turn and hipfire their ScrR until I'm dead. It kills even faster than an AR in twitchy hands in CQC, which just makes no sense to me whatsoever. It should be a marksman's weapon, not a "lol I can spasm 8 bullets a second at your toe" weapon. I can click a mouse about 9 times a second with a solid effort, 8 times easy. That's up to 970 DPS a second on an Imperial set when a Duvolle with the same set is doing 640. That is a colossal difference. That's the DPS difference (a little over 50%) between a Militia Assault Rifle with Proficiency 0 and a Balac's GAR-21 with Proficiency 5. You're matching the same set with an AR at less than 6 shots a second. From what I've read of people timing themselves, 6 seems pretty typical. However, many people can hit 8-10 without too much trouble and it's not like you need precise aim when the guy is 5m from you. THE SCR IS NOT SUPERIOR TO THE AR, if thats what you are implying.... Yes you can do More DPS in a seconds but after you get 1 kill you overheat. The Duvolle has the ability to Kill 3 and up to 5+ enemies IN A ROW, without having to even release the R1 button. On the rest, i agree. The main issue is the Capability the SCR has at CQ. I am not implying that the Scrambler Rifle is flat out better than the Assault Rifle, all the time. The Assault Rifle is easier to use and easier to be consistent with. Also, an Imperial set with 2 Mods and Proficiency can deal around 2200 damage in a constant stream of fire with no pauses. Add in target acquisition and a few natural fire pauses as you track and you can take out 4-5 average 500 HP suits before overheating. The cooldown is pretty quick, the overheat cooldown negates the heat from shots completely and the Amarr Assault Suit gives you the damage in one stream that an AR has in a full clip. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1029	Posted - 2013.11.28 00:40:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I can agree to more hip fire spread, but not doing reduced damage as range closes. Full damage out to optimal, but hip fire accuracy prevents cqc dominance. The thing with hipfire spread on a semiautomatic gun that does 100+ damage a shot is that a degree of luck comes into play. I sometimes use my TAR at short range while getting shot at. Half the time most of my bullets connect and the guy dies before he can drop my shields. The other half of the time most of my bullets miss and he tears me a new one. That just it. It isn't the gun being OP or the player abusing some gimmick. Its luck, plain and simple. A more reliable way to ensure his survival would be to switch to his sidearm, and finish off his foe. Honestly, I HATE the laser rifle, specifically because of the sweet spot. It .Ames no sense with real physics, it makes the gun useless outside of a small defined range, and it just... bugs me. Plus, it does constant damage as long as the trigger is held, unlike the scrambler which requires multiple trigger pulls. Hip fire dispersion, I can understand. But that wonky-ass damage profile on my weapon... I will not cede this point. I would prefer to negate the luck, myself. However, there's always going to be a degree of luck and it would be enough to deter anyone looking for long term survival. I used to only use the Laser Rifle for months, so I know exactly what you mean about it. The reverse damage drop ending in an instant, normal drop at the end leaving me with 19m to kill in, plus the annoying damage build mechanics making me have to fire 25-30 bullets in one stream before I hit TAR DPS made me leave. Why 'charge' my gun for 30 rounds while keeping a target within a 19m span when I can take out my TAR and mash the trigger for the same result, with no delays, at any range I want? The only advantage was being able to quickly burst kill multiple targets with the last 20 bullets in the stream, or so, which was hard to do if they weren't standing close together, without cover, not shooting at you. I think I've died only a handful of times to a Laser Rifle since 1.6 and killed a couple dozen Laser Rifle users, at most 10m out of their range. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.