DUST Search - Do Active Scanners really need a nerf?

axis alpha wrote:

Ridire Greine wrote:

Ok, maybe they do, just a little. (Removing the messages that are displayed to the user, specifically "Some Margin of Error")

But most of the nerf requests have come from people who play Pubs, what about PC?

It only takes 2 Complex Dampeners for an Assault to dodge the Proto Scanner.

Now answer honestly, how many of you complaining have really invested into the required skills to dodge scanners? How many of you actually use the modules this skill offers?

Logis, and Heavies are limited on how to dodge scans, because most of the Logis, and the Heavies rely on Armour tanking (Except for the CalLogi, who can still do both.....)

But then again, Heavies aren't supposed to be sneaky, nor are Logis supposed to be trying to sneak.

So dont base these nerf requests based on how they perform in pubs (Against a lot of newberries that dont understand the importance of Dampening, nor do they have the SP to do it), the Scanner isn't broken, matchmaking is.

I'm an assault I have better crap to put in my slots than dampeners... if I wanted to do that id be a scout... its not in an assaults nature to put dampeners

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Ridire Greine 108	Posted - 2013.11.27 13:52:00 - [1] - Quote Ok, maybe they do, just a little. (Removing the messages that are displayed to the user, specifically "Some Margin of Error") But most of the nerf requests have come from people who play Pubs, what about PC? It only takes 2 Complex Dampeners for an Assault to dodge the Proto Scanner. Now answer honestly, how many of you complaining have really invested into the required skills to dodge scanners? How many of you actually use the modules this skill offers? Logis, and Heavies are limited on how to dodge scans, because most of the Logis, and the Heavies rely on Armour tanking (Except for the CalLogi, who can still do both.....) But then again, Heavies aren't supposed to be sneaky, nor are Logis supposed to be trying to sneak. So dont base these nerf requests based on how they perform in pubs (Against a lot of newberries that dont understand the importance of Dampening, nor do they have the SP to do it), the Scanner isn't broken, matchmaking is. Property of Knight SoiaireGäó R 0 N 1 N [VGTG]
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 375	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:12:00 - [2] - Quote I would make it so if the scan profile of the person being scanned is 15% lower than the scanner, there is no error detected. That would also incentivise scouts to actually invest in the profile dampening skill. As of now we can hide from proto scanners with level 5 scout, level 2 damps and basic dampener. Whereas going level 5 scouts and damps with a complex dampener would give you a profile of 22.7. 23% lower than the proto scanners 28db. 'Insert witty signature here'
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1612	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:15:00 - [3] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: I would make it so if the scan profile of the person being scanned is 15% lower than the scanner, there is no error detected. That would also incentivise scouts to actually invest in the profile dampening skill. As of now we can hide from proto scanners with level 5 scout, level 2 damps and basic dampener. Whereas going level 5 scouts and damps with a complex dampener would give you a profile of 22.7. 23% lower than the proto scanners 28db. I'd like it. I'd also like it so when you use a scanner and your profile is higher then the scanner you use, you blip on the screen of the enemy for 1 sec. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 577	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:17:00 - [4] - Quote answer is yes SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 146	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:17:00 - [5] - Quote no nerf needed. just remove them from the game.
Ridire Greine 111	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:19:00 - [6] - Quote Kam Elto wrote: no nerf needed. just remove them from the game. And completely remove the benefit Scouts recieve from their passive, and turn DUST into even a bigger game of EHP? I like Scanners, they encourage people to sacrifice some HP, to dodge the scan. Property of Knight SoiaireGäó R 0 N 1 N [VGTG]
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 316	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:27:00 - [7] - Quote Yes they need a nerf. Nerf the 360 twirl Nerf margin of error message Nerf cooldown being less than time scanned, meaning an area can stay perma scan. Nerf insta pop of scan, make it take the full time to bring the dots up.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 751	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:40:00 - [8] - Quote They do need a nerf. The spinning/sweeping and error message should be addressed, but the biggest problem with the scanner is that you can scan often enough that the enemy is always scanned. Allowing one or both teams to have a constant feed of the enemy's location kills the usefulness of tactics and simplifies the battlefield so that you're only either pushing forward or falling back. For example, want to try a flanking maneuver? You just divided your forces in half and the enemy can capitalize on that by focusing on the smaller of the two groups. This is why scanners need to have a cooldown of 7x or 8x the time enemy's are spotted. Why so high? That way a dedicated scan logi could provide a good feed on enemy locations, but it isn't perfect which gives room for the enemy to attempt other tactics. For everyone else, the scanner then becomes a tool to get a snapshot of enemy locations allowing attackers to know how many defenders they are up against or to find weaknesses in the enemy formations such as a weak flank. The problem with saying people should use profile dampeners to counter scanners is that dampeners are a specialization. They are a module that is meant for a specific purpose (to build a stealth suit). However, with the current scanner, they are almost a requirement for using any tactics more advanced than push forward or fall back. Profile dampeners should aid in performing tactics by allowing the user to avoid scanners, not be a requirement. (Side note: This change would reduce the necessity and utility of dampeners as scanners would become less of a threat and less common. However, this is a problem with scan profile, not the dampeners. Scan profile has limited use aside from avoiding scanners. I'm hoping CCP will expand upon the uses of scan profile (and scan precision) in the future through E-Warfare and changes to line-of-sight spotting.) !
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5349	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:45:00 - [9] - Quote I don't really see much of a problem with them since I have Minmatar Scout Dropsuit Level 5 and Profile Dampening to Level 3 which alone is enough to evade more scanners with the exception of the prototype scanners. But even the most powerful proto scanners can be evaded if you specced into Gallente Scout Dropsuit Level 5 and have all four low-slots fitted with Complex Profile Dampeners. This just makes the Gallente Scout all the more valuable. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 278	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:45:00 - [10] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Ok, maybe they do, just a little. (Removing the messages that are displayed to the user, specifically "Some Margin of Error") But most of the nerf requests have come from people who play Pubs, what about PC? It only takes 2 Complex Dampeners for an Assault to dodge the Proto Scanner. Now answer honestly, how many of you complaining have really invested into the required skills to dodge scanners? How many of you actually use the modules this skill offers? Logis, and Heavies are limited on how to dodge scans, because most of the Logis, and the Heavies rely on Armour tanking (Except for the CalLogi, who can still do both.....) But then again, Heavies aren't supposed to be sneaky, nor are Logis supposed to be trying to sneak. So dont base these nerf requests based on how they perform in pubs (Against a lot of newberries that dont understand the importance of Dampening, nor do they have the SP to do it), the Scanner isn't broken, matchmaking is. If i want to be sneake I run an adv scout + Damage mod but still no stealth because the scanner yells there is somebody hiding. In short in the current situation dampeners are not worth the effort the one with the scanner know you are there, even if you are using the most stealthiest fragile suit that is especially designed to avoid beeing scanned...

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1031	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:54:00 - [11] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Yes they need a nerf. Nerf the 360 twirl Nerf margin of error message Nerf cooldown being less than time scanned, meaning an area can stay perma scan. Nerf insta pop of scan, make it take the full time to bring the dots up. There are really OP, but that's a bit much. The first two I can agree with, but the third and fourth when paired with the first one is just too much. The 360 spin is what makes them OP, the error message isn't a huge issue, but still needs a fix. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 66	Posted - 2013.11.27 14:57:00 - [12] - Quote Message from Godin: Yea, nerf scanners; But Buff them for Gal Scouts so they can have a big impact.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 316	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:05:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Yes they need a nerf. Nerf the 360 twirl Nerf margin of error message Nerf cooldown being less than time scanned, meaning an area can stay perma scan. Nerf insta pop of scan, make it take the full time to bring the dots up. There are really OP, but that's a bit much. The first two I can agree with, but the third and fourth when paired with the first one is just too much. The 360 spin is what makes them OP, the error message isn't a huge issue, but still needs a fix. While I can understand the apprehension, EVERYONE should get a break from scanner scanning. You should not be able to hold down an area perma scanned...unless the scan only tracks where you were not constantly. Insta pop is silly, make variants that scan faster but don't make it instant. Or make it instant but lose fidelity through objects. The 360 is probably the biggest issue, yes, it MUST go. While you may not think the error message is a big deal my dampened scout thinks otherwise. If you know what you're doing you can pinpoint where a person is from the message alone. Kind of goes against dampeners in the first place.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 346	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:08:00 - [14] - Quote I actually think the scanners are fine. Not enough folks are using dampeners to actually find out if there is an effective counter to scanners. In my experience dampeners can be quite effective. I need proto damps on my Caldari assault to defeat Adv scanners...fair trade. As to the 360 twirl and cool down time....I don't have that big an issue with that either. Effectively it makes the scanning player much less effective in combat to run continual scans. What most folks are actually experience is multiple people running scanners on the other team and many aren't coordinated so it looks like scanner spam and not a single guy constantly doing pirouettes. I've seen more than a few guys soloing skirmish with scanners in addition to the single scanner that each of our squads carry...that can be a lot of scans.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1174	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:18:00 - [15] - Quote Logi with Complex Damps usually fitted and I rarely see "You have been Scanned". Personally, I don't really see a problem with Active Scanners. Active Scanners == Rock CCP has given you Paper, stop ignoring it for Scissors. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 316	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:39:00 - [16] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I actually think the scanners are fine. Not enough folks are using dampeners to actually find out if there is an effective counter to scanners. In my experience dampeners can be quite effective. I need proto damps on my Caldari assault to defeat Adv scanners...fair trade. As to the 360 twirl and cool down time....I don't have that big an issue with that either. Effectively it makes the scanning player much less effective in combat to run continual scans. What most folks are actually experience is multiple people running scanners on the other team and many aren't coordinated so it looks like scanner spam and not a single guy constantly doing pirouettes. I've seen more than a few guys soloing skirmish with scanners in addition to the single scanner that each of our squads carry...that can be a lot of scans. While this is a possibility I know from personal experience with the scanner that I ALONE can keep an area perma scanned from a good distance. This may only help my squad but there is no break. I don't really needed to be combat effective, I can scan switch weapons have 14 secs of firefight go back scan again. So in 30 secs I might lose 4 secs of fire. And if I'm dedicated I can tell you from where a dampened player is coming just from the error message. The twirl makes no sense, why do they have "angle of scan" if they meant for active scanners to be 360 spotters?
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 600	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:45:00 - [17] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Yes they need a nerf. Nerf the 360 twirl Nerf margin of error message Nerf cooldown being less than time scanned, meaning an area can stay perma scan. Nerf insta pop of scan, make it take the full time to bring the dots up. I don't understand the 360 twirl...It's a smart move and when you do it(at least with STD versions) you're likely to miss some dots. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 552	Posted - 2013.11.27 15:58:00 - [18] - Quote Scanners have completely ruined the battles. Gone are the days of actually having to pay attention to your surroundings, instead you always know where every enemy is. Plus the redonkulous cooldown time and they are literally the most OP weapon in the game. What's even more crazy is that I can't even spawn without being instascanned. It's stupid, and as a heavy there's literally nothing I can do about it unless I waste my precious slots with profile dampeners. Scan tools should be scout class equipments and if someone tries to equip it on something else there should be major CPU/PG penalties. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
axis alpha Red Star. EoN. 84	Posted - 2013.11.27 16:09:00 - [19] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Ok, maybe they do, just a little. (Removing the messages that are displayed to the user, specifically "Some Margin of Error") But most of the nerf requests have come from people who play Pubs, what about PC? It only takes 2 Complex Dampeners for an Assault to dodge the Proto Scanner. Now answer honestly, how many of you complaining have really invested into the required skills to dodge scanners? How many of you actually use the modules this skill offers? Logis, and Heavies are limited on how to dodge scans, because most of the Logis, and the Heavies rely on Armour tanking (Except for the CalLogi, who can still do both.....) But then again, Heavies aren't supposed to be sneaky, nor are Logis supposed to be trying to sneak. So dont base these nerf requests based on how they perform in pubs (Against a lot of newberries that dont understand the importance of Dampening, nor do they have the SP to do it), the Scanner isn't broken, matchmaking is. I'm an assault I have better crap to put in my slots than dampeners... if I wanted to do that id be a scout... its not in an assaults nature to put dampeners The best part of waking up, is whiskey in my cuuuuup!
Ridire Greine 113	Posted - 2013.11.27 16:19:00 - [20] - Quote axis alpha wrote: Ridire Greine wrote: Ok, maybe they do, just a little. (Removing the messages that are displayed to the user, specifically "Some Margin of Error") But most of the nerf requests have come from people who play Pubs, what about PC? It only takes 2 Complex Dampeners for an Assault to dodge the Proto Scanner. Now answer honestly, how many of you complaining have really invested into the required skills to dodge scanners? How many of you actually use the modules this skill offers? Logis, and Heavies are limited on how to dodge scans, because most of the Logis, and the Heavies rely on Armour tanking (Except for the CalLogi, who can still do both.....) But then again, Heavies aren't supposed to be sneaky, nor are Logis supposed to be trying to sneak. So dont base these nerf requests based on how they perform in pubs (Against a lot of newberries that dont understand the importance of Dampening, nor do they have the SP to do it), the Scanner isn't broken, matchmaking is. I'm an assault I have better crap to put in my slots than dampeners... if I wanted to do that id be a scout... its not in an assaults nature to put dampeners Well then, enjoy a lifetime of 'You have been scanned' Property of Knight SoiaireGäó R 0 N 1 N [VGTG]

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2379	Posted - 2013.11.27 16:25:00 - [21] - Quote Make scanners scout only,like they should be, that solves a whole batch of problems right there. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 A grunt of STB
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 936	Posted - 2013.11.27 16:31:00 - [22] - Quote I wish they didn't exist. They will turn you into a squad kill if you try to hp tank or an easy fragile kill if you try to stack profile dampeners. What the fox say?


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