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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
1534
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Posted - 2013.11.27 06:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make the "+1 HP armor repair bonus" actually a bonus.
If you don't fit any armor repairer or reactive plate, you shouldn't receive any bonus to your non-existent armor regeneration.
This would prevent Logi's from tanking extreme amounts of HP (if they want to benefit from your regeneration bonus), while it wouldn't actually penalize the Logistic class at all: More repairing means reduced inactivity times and more active Logi's, always ready to support. It would reduce the Slayer-Logi's efficiency, probably, as the HP cap is reduced.
Forcing Logi's to focus on Armor regeneration also means that can use those nanohives to support their team instead of sitting on top of them for the whole match.
I don't think that Logi's need terrible nerfs like "sidearm only". This might be a good starting point.
Feel free to discuss and keep it peaceful, please. Reasonable posts are welcome, flame will be ignored.
-1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m
-Goodbye my love, Tac AR
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
2123
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Posted - 2013.11.27 06:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
I never forgive myself for choosing HP over better equipment, but I do it anyway because I feel I die too damn fast every game. Not to mention equipment forces me to have no flexibility in weapon choices as the AR is the only weapon that performs decently in all scenarios without requiring massive amounts of CPU/PG at the advanced level (hoping the RR and CR will change that).
The Logistics bonus can alleviate this frustration by providing a fitting cost reduction to equipment. Either a uniform -5% to fitting cost to all equipment, or something like this:
Logistics Level 1: 10% reduction to fitting cost of repair tools and nanite injectors. Level 2: 15% reduction to fitting cost of nanohives. Level 3: 10% reduction to fitting costs of uplinks. Level 4: 20% reduction to fitting costs of remote explosives/proxy explosives. Level 5: 10% reduction to fitting costs of scanners.
Not really sure about those numbers, but that is the general idea.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
1534
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Posted - 2013.11.27 06:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I never forgive myself for choosing HP over better equipment, but I do it anyway because I feel I die too damn fast every game. Not to mention equipment forces me to have no flexibility in weapon choices as the AR is the only weapon that performs decently in all scenarios without requiring massive amounts of CPU/PG at the advanced level (hoping the RR and CR will change that).
The Logistics bonus can alleviate this frustration by providing a fitting cost reduction to equipment. Either a uniform -5% to fitting cost to all equipment, or something like this:
Logistics Level 1: 10% reduction to fitting cost of repair tools and nanite injectors. Level 2: 15% reduction to fitting cost of nanohives. Level 3: 10% reduction to fitting costs of uplinks. Level 4: 20% reduction to fitting costs of remote explosives/proxy explosives. Level 5: 10% reduction to fitting costs of scanners.
Not really sure about those numbers, but that is the general idea.
I like the idea.
-1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m
-Goodbye my love, Tac AR
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
170
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Posted - 2013.11.27 06:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I never forgive myself for choosing HP over better equipment, but I do it anyway because I feel I die too damn fast every game. Not to mention equipment forces me to have no flexibility in weapon choices as the AR is the only weapon that performs decently in all scenarios without requiring massive amounts of CPU/PG at the advanced level (hoping the RR and CR will change that).
The Logistics bonus can alleviate this frustration by providing a fitting cost reduction to equipment. Either a uniform -5% to fitting cost to all equipment, or something like this:
Logistics Level 1: 10% reduction to fitting cost of repair tools and nanite injectors. Level 2: 15% reduction to fitting cost of nanohives. Level 3: 10% reduction to fitting costs of uplinks. Level 4: 20% reduction to fitting costs of remote explosives/proxy explosives. Level 5: 10% reduction to fitting costs of scanners.
Not really sure about those numbers, but that is the general idea.
Useless skills. Most of logi don't even use Explosives and Scanners. These are used by scouts and assaults.
Calda and Amarr is 90% of time using : Repair tool / Drop uplink / Nanohives. The others same with Nanite.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
240
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Posted - 2013.11.27 06:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nerfing the crap out of Logi's isn't what's necessary. What we need to do is encourage players who want to play a certain way to use suits and setups that are designed to function like that.
Example:
Logi's were intended to be support players with lots of equipment. Give logi suits a PG/CPU reduction bonus to the equipment slots regardless of what's in them.
Assault were intended for more frontline combat. Give assault suits a PG/CPU reduction bonus to the high slots, where shields and damage mods are kept.
Players who want to be high DPS tanks will finally be better off with the assault suits. Players who like to support other players will be better off with the logi suits.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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Oswald Rehnquist
717
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Posted - 2013.11.27 07:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:I never forgive myself for choosing HP over better equipment, but I do it anyway because I feel I die too damn fast every game. Not to mention equipment forces me to have no flexibility in weapon choices as the AR is the only weapon that performs decently in all scenarios without requiring massive amounts of CPU/PG at the advanced level (hoping the RR and CR will change that).
The Logistics bonus can alleviate this frustration by providing a fitting cost reduction to equipment. Either a uniform -5% to fitting cost to all equipment, or something like this:
Logistics Level 1: 10% reduction to fitting cost of repair tools and nanite injectors. Level 2: 15% reduction to fitting cost of nanohives. Level 3: 10% reduction to fitting costs of uplinks. Level 4: 20% reduction to fitting costs of remote explosives/proxy explosives. Level 5: 10% reduction to fitting costs of scanners.
Not really sure about those numbers, but that is the general idea. Useless skills. Most of logi don't even use Explosives and Scanners. These are used by scouts and assaults. Calda and Amarr is 90% of time using : Repair tool / Drop uplink / Nanohives. The others same with Nanite.
I agree, one potential solution could be a "reduction to equipment" in general
Reduce logi cpu/pg by 10%, give it a +10% equipment reduction per level (50% is huge), and poof,
A logi that does not go heavy into equipment will not benefit from the suits bonus, and thus be a weaker assault, a logi that goes heavy into equipment will thus be invested into support while still having the ability to defend itself.
All I know is I"m in the logi keeping light weapon camp.
Below 28 dB
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Oswald Rehnquist
717
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Posted - 2013.11.27 07:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Make the "+1 HP armor repair bonus" actually a bonus.
If you don't fit any armor repairer or reactive plate, you shouldn't receive any bonus to your non-existent armor regeneration.
This would prevent Logi's from tanking extreme amounts of HP (if they want to benefit from your regeneration bonus), while it wouldn't actually penalize the Logistic class at all: More repairing means reduced inactivity times and more active Logi's, always ready to support. It would reduce the Slayer-Logi's efficiency, probably, as the HP cap is reduced.
Forcing Logi's to focus on Armor regeneration also means that can use those nanohives to support their team instead of sitting on top of them for the whole match.
I don't think that Logi's need terrible nerfs like "sidearm only". This might be a good starting point.
Feel free to discuss and keep it peaceful, please. Reasonable posts are welcome, flame will be ignored.
I also don't think its direct tank either that the issue between salts and logis, its just the cpu/pg issue which allows it to build any way it wants. (the tank issue is between logis and heavies, but that is for another thread)
Below 28 dB
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abarkrishna
WarRavens
81
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Posted - 2013.11.27 07:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
The problem is not that logis are over powered. The problem is the lack of a specific role for assaults. The truth is the only positive of running an assault suit over a logi is movement speed. There should be a better reason to choose assault over logi. Something that actually makes running an assault suit worthwhile other than speed. With time to kill being so low it is impossible not to tank armor no matter what class you are. Everyone is always so quick to jump on the nerf hammer band wagon.
That being said your idea is by far one of the best I have heard. (Taking away light weapons from logis and forcing them to use only side arms for example) Personally i think logistics suits are fine the way they are. They have a defined role on the battle field, as do heavies.
"Assault were intended for more frontline combat. Give assault suits a PG/CPU reduction bonus to the high slots, where shields and damage mods are kept." This sounds like a great start to the assault suit problem however TTK is far to low for that. Perhaps if they do something about DPS/HP it would work much better.
They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
277
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Posted - 2013.11.27 12:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Make the "+1 HP armor repair bonus" actually a bonus.
If you don't fit any armor repairer or reactive plate, you shouldn't receive any bonus to your non-existent armor regeneration.
This would prevent Logi's from tanking extreme amounts of HP (if they want to benefit from your regeneration bonus), while it wouldn't actually penalize the Logistic class at all: More repairing means reduced inactivity times and more active Logi's, always ready to support. It would reduce the Slayer-Logi's efficiency, probably, as the HP cap is reduced.
Forcing Logi's to focus on Armor regeneration also means that can use those nanohives to support their team instead of sitting on top of them for the whole match.
I don't think that Logi's need terrible nerfs like "sidearm only". This might be a good starting point.
Feel free to discuss and keep it peaceful, please. Reasonable posts are welcome, flame will be ignored.
You do realise that thsi would make the bonus even more powerfull do you? 5 HP/s bonus to armor repai modules would result in 11.25 HP/s per complex repairmodule .
On a side note the shieldrecharge bonus give a bonus of 5 HP/s shieldrecharge for most assault suits... |
Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
1556
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Make the "+1 HP armor repair bonus" actually a bonus.
If you don't fit any armor repairer or reactive plate, you shouldn't receive any bonus to your non-existent armor regeneration.
This would prevent Logi's from tanking extreme amounts of HP (if they want to benefit from your regeneration bonus), while it wouldn't actually penalize the Logistic class at all: More repairing means reduced inactivity times and more active Logi's, always ready to support. It would reduce the Slayer-Logi's efficiency, probably, as the HP cap is reduced.
Forcing Logi's to focus on Armor regeneration also means that can use those nanohives to support their team instead of sitting on top of them for the whole match.
I don't think that Logi's need terrible nerfs like "sidearm only". This might be a good starting point.
Feel free to discuss and keep it peaceful, please. Reasonable posts are welcome, flame will be ignored.
You do realise that thsi would make the bonus even more powerfull do you? 5 HP/s bonus to armor repai modules would result in 11.25 HP/s per complex repairmodule . On a side note the shieldrecharge bonus give a bonus of 5 HP/s shieldrecharge for most assault suits...
It wouldn't make it more powerful, they can already do that, right?
EDIT: Oh, no, I don't mean it would apply to each plate, just that they need to have some sort of native regen to benefit from the Logistic bonus.
-1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m
-Goodbye my love, Tac AR
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
466
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Posted - 2013.11.27 13:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:I never forgive myself for choosing HP over better equipment, but I do it anyway because I feel I die too damn fast every game. Not to mention equipment forces me to have no flexibility in weapon choices as the AR is the only weapon that performs decently in all scenarios without requiring massive amounts of CPU/PG at the advanced level (hoping the RR and CR will change that).
The Logistics bonus can alleviate this frustration by providing a fitting cost reduction to equipment. Either a uniform -5% to fitting cost to all equipment, or something like this:
Logistics Level 1: 10% reduction to fitting cost of repair tools and nanite injectors. Level 2: 15% reduction to fitting cost of nanohives. Level 3: 10% reduction to fitting costs of uplinks. Level 4: 20% reduction to fitting costs of remote explosives/proxy explosives. Level 5: 10% reduction to fitting costs of scanners.
Not really sure about those numbers, but that is the general idea. Useless skills. Most of logi don't even use Explosives and Scanners. These are used by scouts and assaults. Calda and Amarr is 90% of time using : Repair tool / Drop uplink / Nanohives. The others same with Nanite. I agree, one potential solution could be a "reduction to equipment" in general Reduce logi cpu/pg by 10%, give it a +10% equipment reduction per level (50% is huge), and poof, A logi that does not go heavy into equipment will not benefit from the suits bonus, and thus be a weaker assault, a logi that goes heavy into equipment will thus be invested into support while still having the ability to defend itself. All I know is I"m in the logi keeping light weapon camp.
I'm pretty sure what the devs are hinting at is something like what Vyzion suggests, with specific equipment bonuses, based on their original posts about it. I don't known that I like either because it seems against the whole sandbox thing and I don't want to have to unlock every dang logi suit to use equipment to its max potential. I prefer the blanket reduction along the lines of what Oswald said. I'll have to see what the devs cook up, but my main critique of Vyzions proposal is that it creates a hierarchical tree of equipment which is a little artificial. Who gets to say what equipment I use first? It should be up to me. Even if it was somehow racially based at least there would be a choice involved of picking the race that matches the equipment you want.
But, like I said, racial bonuses would make being a logi an even bigger SP sink than it is now, might even start rivaling vehicles! One way it could work though is that you get a blanket-type reduction on all equipment, plus an additional cherry-on-top bonus for one type in particular.
As for the OP, I'm not sure if the lack of repper use is really an issue, I think a fair amount of us (Amarr specifically) use at least one rep to take advantage of the racial bonus. I'd guess a decent amount of gallente do as well. Caldari would probably hate it, it's really not worth it for them to waste a slot on a rep module or reactive plate.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation
486
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Posted - 2013.11.27 15:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'a logi. I actually fit equipement and use it to support the team. I like this tread, it is actually discussing the problem instead of crying.
My idea: Give ALL logis a 50% reduction to ALL fitted equipement modules and reduce their pg/cpu. So that if you don't use equipements you end up with a gimped assault.
The true problem as someone already said is that assault have no clear role and their bonuses are crap (5% bonus to shield recharge on gallente suit? Lol)
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
234
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Posted - 2013.11.27 17:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
People who armor tank a logistics suit aren't dependent on that 5 hp/sec, it's nice but most people use an armor repairer anyway to bring it up to 11.25 (even more for amarr) and if they don't then they will after this changes so they can get the armor repair and they don't really need to sacrifice much to get that. It will help with making basic and maybe enhanced suits crappier but they aren't part of the "problem"
The armor repair bonus will be getting changed eventually anyway. |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
234
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Posted - 2013.11.27 17:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:I'a logi. I actually fit equipement and use it to support the team. I like this tread, it is actually discussing the problem instead of crying.
My idea: Give ALL logis a 50% reduction to ALL fitted equipement modules and reduce their pg/cpu. So that if you don't use equipements you end up with a gimped assault.
The true problem as someone already said is that assault have no clear role and their bonuses are crap (5% bonus to shield recharge on gallente suit? Lol)
No other suit really has a point because the logi is the only unique suit, all of the others can really only be combat oriented and have less flexibility, I'd say the only other one that's slightly unique is the heavy because it can use weapons no-one else can, too bad there's only 1 good heavy weapon and it's difficult for some to use against infantry lol |
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