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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1884
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
As much as I would like protos to be excluded from pub matches, I wholeheartedly believe CCP won't change that. New Eden is built upon the idea of being brutal and ruthless.
I think the only way to solve this is by the community assisting the new player with learning the aspects of the game.
I do agree that the recruits should stay in Academy much longer. Not too long, but at least a three days worth to build up a momentum. But as I think about it as I type, I don't think nothing can fully prepare the recruit for the massacre that waits. The rite of passage must be done. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1886
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 05:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:Michael Arck wrote:As much as I would like protos to be excluded from pub matches, I wholeheartedly believe CCP won't change that. New Eden is built upon the idea of being brutal and ruthless.
I think the only way to solve this is by the community assisting the new player with learning the aspects of the game.
I do agree that the recruits should stay in Academy much longer. Not too long, but at least a three days worth to build up a momentum. But as I think about it as I type, I don't think nothing can fully prepare the recruit for the massacre that waits. The rite of passage must be done. 3 days? more like 3 months.
LOL woooow
Ya know, I was going to say a couple of months but then I scrapped the thought.
Read my mind |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1888
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 05:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:Trial by fire works for people who have calloused feet or the mind of a zen master, I'd suspect that alot of new players have neither. The game is tough, I came in at a decent time, i got to experience some protostomping but not to the level where people are saying they've run out of stuff to skill into. These guys are coming into a game where people have 35+ million skill points and tons of cash, do you really think telling them "oh it will get better a few months down the road" will convince more than a handful of them to stick around?
I do like the mentoring idea but it would have to be volunteer only, there would have to be players willing to join a designated corp that all new players came into where the volunteers could help acclimate them.
Still, going back to the metal gear online reference, I feel like this game would do better if the players had a little control over their matches, if they could make their own rooms with their own rules and number of clones or objectives or join anyone else's and stay in as long as they wanted, none of this getting kicked out to join an entirely new group of people. There was also a designated training section where players who were experience enough could share knowledge or just screw around with anyone who wanted to come in, in a room where stats weren't affected.
First, the trial by fire is real. I went through it as well as others. I kept pushing even though it was looking bleak at first. If you don't have the competitive fortitude, you don't have the competitive fortitude. Folks praised Demon's Souls for its difficulty, yet games were hard at one point without all the necessary hand holding and novice styled gameplay that is prevalent in plenty of games today.
There is a mentor corporation, Dust University and you have Fox Gaden's tutorials on the forums to help the new player. Now the question is, do they know of this? Hopefully the gamer is smart that they take to the internet to gain some wisdom about this game.
Lastly, I would love to have user created matches and a training room. That would be great. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1891
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 10:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:There's a difference between a game that's hard and a game that's punishing, I've played dark souls and the difference between dust and and anything in the souls series is that it's rewarding to overcome certain challenges, challenges that gradually become more difficult as you go on, if this were put in a souls setting it would be like introducing you to the four kings boss in the first 5 minutes.
This is exactly why things aren't changing, because people can comfortably sit back and say "well you'll just have to tough it out", and if someone quits it's because they weren't tough enough or didn't know to seek out dust uni or something, I have alot of friends who are hardcore gamers and I wouldn't even want to get them into the game because it would just be torturous and they would move on to play other things. It's just not fun to get your face shoved into the dirt by vets.
I'd rather think that if someone quits out of that kind of frustration then we (players and devs) could be doing a better job to make the game more enjoyable without sacrificing the kind of difficulty that helps people learn.
Well isn't that what we do with life itself? Tough it out? We do what is necessary to succeed. We are quick to tell someone to go out and make that push, but we cannot do that here? A freshmen in college from a poor background who works hard to pay for the education is more respected and have more fortitude than the freshmen who is guaranteed an all expense paid college education.
Demon's Souls and Dust 514 are both the same. You're punished for your mistakes. You will die alot until you learn what you're doing wrong. Some information needed to be gathered (as far as level progression in Demon's Souls, it matches SP progression) from the internet to make sure you're not off to a bad start. Both pretty much lack in game information (to be honest, Dust 514 has more info about what to do than DS). There are certain enemies you just have to run from (Prototype for the milita = Red eye demons for the rookies). Gear and so forth.
Let's be honest here, the New Eden universe is a critique on society and also a social experiment. To build, you must gather with other people. Find like minded folks who will motivate you. Folks that will remind you there's a sun behind those dark cloudy days. This further pushes the social experiment aspect.
In society we have folks who just sit around and cry about life is not fair. Then you have the ones who persevere, even in the face of defeat.
And seriously though (not being negative, just being blunt), if you're friends were true hardcore players, they would beat the game instead of allowing the game to beat them.
Again, I do agree the protostomps should stop but at the same time I see the other side of the coin and it's what made me a better player. I don't look at the uphill battle as a loss. I look at as a progression of wisdom to be gathered on how to master oneself on the battlefield.
It's all about perspectives and fortitude.
And if you truly want to help these young players, then maybe we the community, should band together and provide some New Eden education to these guys. We can do that with concentrated efforts.
"Why do we fall, Bruce?" |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1891
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 11:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
rpastry wrote:When I started playing dust in beta I got stomped, there wasn't even an academy back then.
That was a long time ago.
And i'm still playing.
Yea I started (march?) of this year and got heavily rolled on. And there wasn't a Academy. The SP graph wasn't as pretty as it is now (I remember looking at the original one like, WTF). It took google and a friendly corporation to help me get acclimated to this brutal world. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1895
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 11:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Michael Arck wrote:rpastry wrote:When I started playing dust in beta I got stomped, there wasn't even an academy back then.
That was a long time ago.
And i'm still playing.
Yea I started (march?) of this year and got heavily rolled on. And there wasn't a Academy. The SP graph wasn't as pretty as it is now (I remember looking at the original one like, WTF). It took google and a friendly corporation to help me get acclimated to this brutal world. But expecting newcomers to do the same thing is rediculous. That was one of the problems with DCUO pre-server-merge. There was too much ganking for the newcomers to even get in their stride, let alone get to the same level as the ones doing the ganking. The only people who DON'T want this are people who think killing newcomers EVERY MATCH is fun. I don't, I want close matches. Not all the time, but I want matches that were as close as the ones in Open Beta. When there was no tank, I mean.
Here's to hoping that every player finds the power of will to conquer what seems to be insurmountable odds. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1908
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 04:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Michael Arck wrote:As much as I would like protos to be excluded from pub matches, I wholeheartedly believe CCP won't change that. New Eden is built upon the idea of being brutal and ruthless.
I think the only way to solve this is by the community assisting the new player with learning the aspects of the game.
I do agree that the recruits should stay in Academy much longer. Not too long, but at least a three days worth to build up a momentum. But as I think about it as I type, I don't think nothing can fully prepare the recruit for the massacre that waits. The rite of passage must be done. Remember though that in a video game "brutal and ruthless" means "no one gives two f*cks" and "we will just move on to another game". Not everybody measures their c*cks by a video game. This is NOT EVE where you just set off into the world and do whatever freely. This game is a specific thing in a specific context. It must have parameters and arbitrary limits in order to function as what it is supposed to be. Right now the protostomping just makes everyone else give up and make a mockery of the game. There's so much f*cking around by those who know how to read a roster that it really isn't a combat war game. It's a frat party. All the tryhards might like to prove their manhood in this video game but CCP as a company can't afford to cater to them. DUST is already the butt of jokes even on its own forums.
Honestly though, what are you saying? And before you open your mouth, let me let you know that I understand what you are saying but still what is it are you exactly saying?
We aren't talking about measuring c*cks by a video game.
There are two groups here. One group will keep pushing forward even with the odds are not in their favor. Cause for them, personally, they will not give the enemy the satisfaction. They aren't going to start boo hooing and crying about its unfair.
Then you got the others who blows away like paper at the first light breeze that comes to them. They cry its unfair. Get upset when adversity beats them instead of learning from adversity.
So that's the thing. We are not made the same. It takes something for the human being to drive forward even when faced with certain defeat. Even when the odds work against them. Even when they see no way out but to fight. That takes a special person.
I admit, not everyone has that caliber. I don't care what you say, New Eden is still brutal and ruthless. No we don't give a ****, that's why we kill in this game with extreme prejudice. Duh!!
Why I am for helping the new people out any way possible, comments like yours when I offer my viewpoints is completely drenched in ignorance that you can't think outside yourself. Not everybody has that weak approach like you and some others might have. Because we choose to fight even we are losing, doesn't mean we do it to measure our c*cks or take action just to say we got the manhood and guts to do so.
We do it because it is in our nature. And if we can do it, then can as well. If not, hopefully you guys and others have the charmins and the shoulders for them. We shall send them in your direction for your care bear love. |
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