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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
428
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
After seeing how under used Kinetic Catalystizers seem to go in the wake of new changes to hit detection I think I've come up with a brilliant Idea to bring them back--by tying them to the use of a new gun mechanic in the unreleased Ion Pistol.
I'm calling it the Run Gun initially (please suggest better names).
The premise is that the gun does not carry ammo or exchangeable battery cells, but rather uses the electrical potential of the entire dropsuit. It converts friction and the kinetic force needed to move a given mass over a 1m distance into a charge that's usable by the gun.
Additional Points:
-Overcharging the weapon is possible but only by running a longer distance at a high intensity. The weapon fires immediately at trigger depression; however it pays not to miss as you don't immediately have reserve munitions unless you run again and build up more charge.
-The weapon would come in either a one shot breach, or three shot assault variant.
Breach 3.2 kj = 195 hp 7.8 kj = 292 hp 16.2 kj = 365 hp
Assault 0.8 kj = 65 hp x 3 4.4 kj = 82.7 hp x 3 11.8 kj = 97.3 hp x 3
-You may carry more than one pistol however there is a stacking penalty on charge time.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
428
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
It would help to know the exact masses of each dropsuit to better calculate Kilo-joule measures. I may have lowballed my estimates.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
428
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Where are the physics experts of the Dust Community? I need your help!
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
What are we looking at for the fitting requirements and weapon accuracy?
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
430
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:What are we looking at for the fitting requirements and weapon accuracy? I was thinking along the lines of that it takes to fit nova knives, but with less PG draw. The weapon would be on par with the scrambler pistol for accuracy just with a greater range.
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DeadlyAztec11
Gallente Federation
2234
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Could just use the suit's stamina as ammo, makes good use if the Cardiac Regulators.
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd be cool if the pistol's charge cell had a dual function of instantly charging the users shields if the player tapped a secondary fire button.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
431
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Could just use the suit's stamina as ammo, makes good use if the Cardiac Regulators. That doesn't quite solve the issue of KinCats going under used. Kinetic Catalyzers allow mercs to generate more force to move across a given distance, therein doing more 'work,' which translates into a given number of Joules as a measure of energy.
Using Kilo-Joules as a measure of ammo reserve and damage potential would encourage both the use of Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers to build up charge faster. Technically putting these on a heavy frame suit would boost your numbers as you have to move a object of greater mass.
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MySpaceTom
Xer Cloud Consortium
55
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 Jadek for turning deadly combat into a weight loss program.
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DeadlyAztec11
Gallente Federation
2234
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Could just use the suit's stamina as ammo, makes good use if the Cardiac Regulators. That doesn't quite solve the issue of KinCats going under used. Kinetic Catalyzers allow mercs to generate more force to move across a given distance, therein doing more 'work,' which translates into a given number of Joules as a measure of energy. Using Kilo-Joules as a measure of ammo reserve and damage potential would encourage both the use of Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers to build up charge faster. Technically putting these on a heavy frame suit would boost your numbers as you have to move a object of greater mass. I understand, I was just offering something to think about. Hey, while we're talking about underused mods, have any ideas for Myofibril Stimulants?
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
431
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:+1 Jadek for turning deadly combat into a weight loss program. Lolz!!!
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DeadlyAztec11
Gallente Federation
2236
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:+1 Jadek for turning deadly combat into a weight loss program. Deadly? You calling me fat boy?
*Heavy eats donut.*
I don't have a problem!
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
431
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Could just use the suit's stamina as ammo, makes good use if the Cardiac Regulators. That doesn't quite solve the issue of KinCats going under used. Kinetic Catalyzers allow mercs to generate more force to move across a given distance, therein doing more 'work,' which translates into a given number of Joules as a measure of energy. Using Kilo-Joules as a measure of ammo reserve and damage potential would encourage both the use of Cardiac Regulators and Kinetic Catalyzers to build up charge faster. Technically putting these on a heavy frame suit would boost your numbers as you have to move a object of greater mass. I understand, I was just offering something to think about. Hey, while we're talking about underused mods, have any ideas for Myofibril Stimulants? Now that you say it, Myofibril Stimulants would also work to charge the gun. The measure of energy converted into the gun would be determined by the power of the suit's melee stats. This would work nicely for heavies...albeit it would look silly to see a merc swinging his arms in the air.
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MySpaceTom
Xer Cloud Consortium
56
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:MySpaceTom wrote:+1 Jadek for turning deadly combat into a weight loss program. Deadly? You calling me fat boy? *Heavy eats donut.* I don't have a problem! Nope....you just like to live large.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Now that you say it, Myofibril Stimulants would also work to charge the gun. The measure of energy converted into the gun would be determined by the power of the suit's melee stats. This would work nicely for heavies...albeit it would look silly to see a merc swinging his arms in the air. A part of me feels like that is going to be abused. Stacking Myofibril Stims and Cardiac Regulators to charge up your gun.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
431
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 18:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Now that you say it, Myofibril Stimulants would also work to charge the gun. The measure of energy converted into the gun would be determined by the power of the suit's melee stats. This would work nicely for heavies...albeit it would look silly to see a merc swinging his arms in the air. A part of me feels like that is going to be abused. Stacking Myofibril Stims and Cardiac Regulators to charge up your gun. No it's perfectly reasonable. Yet, I would opt for running generating more charge than melee strikes, unless those melee strikes connected with an enemy target.
I see a whole new brawler play style coming on.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 18:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Are you suggesting melee strikes would drain the enemy's stamina into your power cell....how the hell would that even work?
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
431
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 18:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
#Space Magic!
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 18:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
At least in the context of this 'one' gun you are talking about incorporating a quasi capacitor system, with energy drain mechanics?
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION
1004
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 18:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is a very unique idea which I like just for its out of the box nature if nothing else. I would like to point out that this would really limit user base for this weapon as most people don't try to speed tank; a fitting I don't think this gun would bring back into favor.
+1 for creativity though.
Fun > Realism
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
432
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Posted - 2013.11.24 18:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:This is a very unique idea which I like just for its out of the box nature if nothing else. I would like to point out that this would really limit user base for this weapon as most people don't try to speed tank; a fitting I don't think this gun would bring back into favor.
+1 for creativity though. Unless, the damage potential was increased giving players the ability to almost OHK other mercs.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
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Posted - 2013.11.24 18:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:This is a very unique idea which I like just for its out of the box nature if nothing else. I would like to point out that this would really limit user base for this weapon as most people don't try to speed tank; a fitting I don't think this gun would bring back into favor.
+1 for creativity though. Unless, the damage potential was increased giving players the ability to almost OHK other mercs. So it's like a walking charge sniper that takes 20 - 25 seconds to bring back to full capacity.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION
1005
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Posted - 2013.11.24 18:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote: Unless, the damage potential was increased giving players the ability to almost OHK other mercs.
Perhaps. It would still be so situational though. Speed fits are just too impacted by the low TTK to really be viable in almost any situation, and while giving speed fitters a OHK weapon would be fun your description would only give them a single shot. I understand that this is for balance but it has a huge negative impact on utility. You miss and you're boned after all.
This might be a bit more viable if running enough would fill the weapon's capacitors to the point where you could have 2 OHK shots, or even three. Perhpas the different tiers of weapons would have a different amount of capacitor storage with the proto-level being able to hold 3 overcharged shots. This would make the weapon a favorite with sneaky fast scouts who rely primarily on the stealth to close distances and accuracy to make their kills.
Fun > Realism
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
432
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Posted - 2013.11.24 18:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote: Unless, the damage potential was increased giving players the ability to almost OHK other mercs.
Perhaps. It would still be so situational though. Speed fits are just too impacted by the low TTK to really be viable in almost any situation, and while giving speed fitters a OHK weapon would be fun your description would only give them a single shot. I understand that this is for balance but it has a huge negative impact on utility. You miss and you're boned after all. This might be a bit more viable if running enough would fill the weapon's capacitors to the point where you could have 2 OHK shots, or even three. Perhpas the different tiers of weapons would have a different amount of capacitor storage with the proto-level being able to hold 3 overcharged shots. This would make the weapon a favorite with sneaky fast scouts who rely primarily on the stealth to close distances and accuracy to make their kills. I like that. I would still have to figure out what a fair overchrage capacitor level would be. How many joules would you need to produce either by running or melee damage to charge a multiple shots? With the overchrage figures you suggested a breach proto pistol could hold 3 shots, while an assault variant could hold a total of 9.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
5351
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like it.
Seeing as you like the idea of it being physics-based, what do you think of the exponential scaling from adding kincats?
As the kinetic energy of a dropsuit is 1/2 its mass multiplied by its velocity squared, there'd be an exponential increase in charging for the ion pistol.
Personally, I think it'd be quite nifty. Scouts would get even more use out of it and kincats would become even more valuable when combined with the ion pistol.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
433
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I like it.
Seeing as you like the idea of it being physics-based, what do you think of the exponential scaling from adding kincats?
As the kinetic energy of a dropsuit is 1/2 its mass multiplied by its velocity squared, there'd be an exponential increase in charging for the ion pistol.
Personally, I think it'd be quite nifty. Scouts would get even more use out of it and kincats would become even more valuable when combined with the ion pistol. I love it!
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
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Posted - 2013.11.24 21:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm going to repost this here.
Now there's something I didn't think of before. I wonder if the use of inertial dampeners could play into your mechanic of capacitor charge. There must be some type of heat build up when you use those dampeners.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
435
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:I'm going to repost this here. Now there's something I didn't think of before. I wonder if the use of inertial dampeners could play into your mechanic of capacitor charge. There must be some type of heat build up when you use those dampeners. This might work in some neat ways if there was a way to vary the strength of your dampeners (i.e. the longer you hold them down, the less force you hit the ground with. This was my game!!)
If you could change the speed at which you hit the ground this would give armor tanked fits a way to use the Ion Pistol by soaking the force of an arrested fall into a given energy value.
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MySpaceTom
Xer Cloud Consortium
56
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:(i.e. the longer you hold them down, the less force you hit the ground with. This was my game!!) You created a two mile crater.
10 points.
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MySpaceTom
Xer Cloud Consortium
56
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:-Charging additional rounds into the weapon is possible. Standard, Advanced, and Proto Tiers alter the number of additional shots you can hold. Additional shots are stored once the first shot is at max charge
example: Prototype Breach Ion Pistol 16.2 kj to 1st Max Charge + (12.9 kj to 2nd Max Charge) + (10.3 to 3rd Max Charge) = 3 shots of 1095 hp total base damage
example: Prototype Assault Ion Pistol 11.8 kj to 1st Max Charge + (9.4 kj to 2nd Max Charge) + (7.5 to 3rd Max Charge) = 9 shots of 875.7 hp total base damage Regardless of what I think about the Minmatar, how would this gun interact with their sidearm ammo capacity bonus?
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
435
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:Regardless of what I think about the Minmatar, how would this gun interact with their sidearm ammo capacity bonus? *Strokes Neckbeard* Mmmm....good question. I would suggest a maxed racial bonus offers a 25% decrease to charge time but that seems a little extreme.
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MySpaceTom
Xer Cloud Consortium
56
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:*Strokes Neckbeard* Mmmm....good question. I would suggest a maxed racial bonus offers a 25% decrease to charge time but that seems a little extreme. Especially considering, Minmatar are fast buggers to being with...this would be their go to weapon. Damn you Gallente scum for proposing such a weapon that favors this sub race!
4920616d204a6164656b204d656e616865696d277320526167696e672042696c652044756374
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Joel II X
AHPA
210
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
What if we made it the same as the Scrambler Pistol, except it is Gallente tech and uses smaller bolts, dealing a bit less damage,but a greater RoF and bigger clip size maybe?
When is the Ion Pistol coming anyways? |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
435
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:What if we made it the same as the Scrambler Pistol, except it is Gallente tech and uses smaller bolts, dealing a bit less damage,but a greater RoF and bigger clip size maybe?
When is the Ion Pistol coming anyways? The idea is not to have an ammo clip. It's a weapon that's charged by the kinetic potential of a moving dropsuit. I only proposed that this take the place of the ion pistol to conserve on developed art assets.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
What does the rest of this skill tree look like for this weapon. -Operation: 5% Reduction in Charge Requirements Per Level -Proficiency: 3% Increase in Weapon Damage Per Level -Sharpshooter: 5% Increase to Targeting refocus Per Level -Fitting Optimization: 3% Decrease to PG per Level
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Joel II X
AHPA
210
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Joel II X wrote:What if we made it the same as the Scrambler Pistol, except it is Gallente tech and uses smaller bolts, dealing a bit less damage,but a greater RoF and bigger clip size maybe?
When is the Ion Pistol coming anyways? The idea is not to have an ammo clip. It's a weapon that's charged by the kinetic potential of a moving dropsuit. I only proposed that this take the place of the ion pistol to conserve on developed art assets. That idea seems ridiculous on paper. I'm not saying my idea is better (my idea is actually horrible), but this just us unheard of.
What about removing the ammo clip and just have a single battery? That way you can either shoot various low-charged bolts, or a single mega-bolt? |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
436
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:What about removing the ammo clip and just have a single battery? That way you can either shoot various low-charged bolts, or a single mega-bolt? How would the battery system work? Are you suggesting a reload mechanic similar to the particle riffle?
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 23:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Joel II X wrote:What if we made it the same as the Scrambler Pistol, except it is Gallente tech and uses smaller bolts, dealing a bit less damage,but a greater RoF and bigger clip size maybe?
When is the Ion Pistol coming anyways? The idea is not to have an ammo clip. It's a weapon that's charged by the kinetic potential of a moving dropsuit. I only proposed that this take the place of the ion pistol to conserve on developed art assets. That idea seems ridiculous on paper. I'm not saying my idea is better (my idea is actually horrible), but this just us unheard of. What about removing the ammo clip and just have a single battery? That way you can either shoot various low-charged bolts, or a single mega-bolt? Don't be afraid to dream big sir. Jadek's method alleviates an issue of speed tanking going under utilized by incorporating those speed modules into the reload effectiveness of a powerful weapon.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
436
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dust 514 is set thousands of years into the future. On that token, humanity on all accounts should have figured out how to either end war or imagine some new and inventive ways to kill one another. The premise of this video game has somewhat settled on the later, but it's stuck with some of the conventional trappings of modern FPS titles *cough* AR *cough*
We already have this charging technology to some extent.
[Phone-charging boots: Walk (a lot) to talk]
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
185
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Posted - 2013.11.25 02:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Dust 514 is set thousands of years into the future. On that token, humanity on all accounts should have figured out how to either end war or imagine some new and inventive ways to kill one another. The premise of this video game has somewhat settled on the later, but it's stuck with some of the conventional trappings of modern FPS titles *cough* AR *cough* We already have this charging technology to some extent. [Phone-charging boots: Walk (a lot) to talk] If you want to talk about 'inventive' warfare, I don't think anybody has really scratched the surface on aural intrusion and psychological warfare in a videogame. I'm not saying we should go there because it would really kill a lot of the fun in playing a videogame.
EXTREME UNPLEASANT Binaural Beat "Vomit"
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
447
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Posted - 2013.11.25 03:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ehhhhh...I don't think my body is ready to cross that bridge in a game Jadu. I can imagine that actual soldiers train for that kind of emotional and psychological bombardment.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
447
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Does anyone have any input on the mass of suits so I can better balance charge times on Kilojoule rates?
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
187
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Does anyone have any input on the mass of suits so I can better balance charge times on Kilojoule rates? Still can't help you out, but if you are going by suit mass it would be interest to branch out into planetary gravity as a factor that 'technically' impacts your charge time for this weapon. Of course you'd being using stamina more quickly on heavier planets.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
447
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Does anyone have any input on the mass of suits so I can better balance charge times on Kilojoule rates? Still can't help you out, but if you are going by suit mass it would be interest to branch out into planetary gravity as a factor that 'technically' impacts your charge time for this weapon. Of course you'd being using stamina more quickly on heavier planets. That's still an interesting thought. If you really wanted to get creative, fighting more battles on larger mass planets would condition your body better to operate in those conditions, then when you switched to battles on lighter mass planets you'd perform better, stamina and strength wise.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
712
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Posted - 2013.12.18 19:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Still on my wish list. Does anyone have input on this?
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
227
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Did you ever get a response from CCP on this regarding the mass of dropsuits? It that information in the SDE?
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NDA Approved
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.12.23 06:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kudos for creativity. It seems for what you've described that you have to display external body mesh to inform an opposing player that this individual is carrying this OHK pistol. Otherwise you are going to get a lot of ragging players who can't prepare against it.
It really feels hard to balance something like this, regardless of how inventive and out of the box it appears.
Imma in ur base, browsin' docs on docs. Trust me, I have clearance.
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
596
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Posted - 2013.12.23 07:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:This is a very unique idea which I like just for its out of the box nature if nothing else.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Soda_Popper
"Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)"
GĒņ Horace, The Odes of Horace
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
769
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Posted - 2013.12.23 08:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Holy smokes! Yes! That's basically what I'm talking about without the actual uber mode. Awesome find.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
772
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Posted - 2013.12.23 16:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
I question is, would this be a weapon you'd like translated into Dust 514?
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Jadu Wen
Xer Deadspace
227
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Posted - 2013.12.25 05:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
What if, when your 'hype' meter was drained all shots would expend from your stamina bar? This way you always have some type of reserve on hand.
Shots using your stamina bar would do 25%-50% damage of 'hype' shots and cost 40 stamina points per shot.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
891
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Posted - 2013.12.25 06:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
No thank you, it's a silly concept for a weapon.
Keep the silliness in Team Fortress 2, people.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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