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Kovinis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
92
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Posted - 2013.11.24 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I actually use them also, and I see how they are bad. Actually I was against BPO then they were introduced. Who's idea was it any way?
With BPO there is no value in your death. With BPC I am afraid of dying and play more careful and don't go with expensive gear unless I know I won't lose it. I invest more in survivability and not in killability. But with BPO it's just another COD - I go directly to battlefield with 3 enemies and 1 sniper. I know I will die, but who cares? Maybe I kill someone! And when I'm dead I immediately respawn. I don't need to wait for someone to revive me. Because then I will have less ammo, and respawning is free anyway. The idea of reviving goes right out of the window, unless where is no near respawn "teleporters".
And a lot of people are asking why BPO are bad for economy. I can say what from my perspective: I almost exclusively use BPO and almost never spend my earned ISK. I play very rarely - maybe a few match per week. I'm afraid to lie, but I think I have over 50 mil ISK. But I don't really care, because I will not gonna spend them anywhere anyway (and I'm not giving it to you too, so sorry :) ) So whats the point of the economy and money if we never gonna spend them? And after few months if I actually decide to spend them... Actually if we all decide to spend them... The market would be flown in massive amount of ISK, and everything will be very expensive (basic economic knowledge)
Everything in New Eden have to have it's price, so DUST version of BPO have no place in it. It's game breaking, and economy breaking. So that's why I'm supporting BPO removal (well actually maybe not removal, but making it like EVE Online - where BPO, BPC and actual item are all different things). At least you could make that if I have BPO, I can buy my gear cheaper, than from market (like I'm actually making it myself), and not unlimited free stuff.
Or at least until changes are made you could quick fix BPO by lets say making limit on how much you could use them in one match (the same could be said about starter fittings, but thats entirely different story).
I'm Kovinis Sparagas, and I support BPO removal P.S. I'm not CCP dev alt, but I am a fan of EVE Universe
I support BPO removal
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Pvt Numnutz
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
298
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Posted - 2013.11.24 11:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
I just don't care, keep em cool, if not give me aur equivalent. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
900
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Posted - 2013.11.24 12:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
The problem with BPOs is that they are at militia level outside of the few standard level ones. The list that I am able to compile at the moment with their ISK variants' cost is as follows:
'Dren' Assault C-I -3000 'Dren' Logistics M-I -3000 'Dren' Sentinel A-I -3000 'Dren' Scout G-I -3000 'Dren' Scrambler Pistol -675 'Dren' Assault Rifle -1500 'Dren' Swarm Launcher -1500 'Dren' Shotgun -1500
That is the 'Dren' family.
'Covenant' Assault C-1 -3000 'Covenant' Sniper Rifle -1500
That is the 'Covenant' family.
Next are the few that don't have a "family".
'Exile' Assault Rifle -1500 'Dragonfly' Scout [nSv] -3000 'Valor' Scout G-I -3000
I currently am unable to bring up a list of the other gear that is standard and BPO, but I'm sure someone else can do it in my place. I also don't have every militia BPO (since I used standard anyways), so I'll also leave that to someone else that wants to put them up with the price of their ISK variants.
The costs of these items is extremely insignificant in the first place. Arguing that they are able to reduce the ISK loss too much is ignorant with the fact that militia gear is there for less than half the price of standard in most cases. You'll literally have to die over 50 times with no revives in a single match in order to lose money in full standard suit. The worst I have ever legitimately have seen someone die was at twenty-three and they still turned profit due to the insignificant cost of standard.
By the logic that BPOs reduce loss too much, then you'll also have to argue for the removal of militia. "But that's not the same thing!" Militia is there as a cost and skill reduced variant of the standards. They are disposable BPOs in that sense. Hell, they might as well be BPOs since they are so dirt cheap.
So, let's talk about the real crash of the ISK economy if it ever comes. Let's make people turn white and turn from the truth. There's a thing called "Planetary Conquest" that is the very definition of a broken system. By being part of PC, you make enough ISK to run proto without a single **** to the loss. The 3,000 ISK suit and the 1,500 Plasma Rifle that 'Dren' replaces is ******* scratch compared to the 57,000 ISK suit and 47,220 ISK Plasma Rifle that is thrown away like trash because of the broken system.
Prototype gear was meant to be the "all in" card. The "it's worth losing for the win". Not to be disposed of like militia gear.
Sit the **** down and wake up. BPOs are the poor man's way to save what little ISK he can against the people that cast away the "all in" like garbage.
Maggots.
"I am a mercenary, I do as I need. I'll shed Amarrian blood for the freedom of my Minmitar allies but only for a price."
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2284
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Posted - 2013.11.24 14:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
How do BPOs remove the fear of death? The only items they take the place of are items you wouldn't be afraid to lose in the first place.
No.
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Second Cerberus
Tested In Production
54
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Posted - 2013.11.24 14:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote: Prototype gear was meant to be the "all in" card. The "it's worth losing for the win". Not to be disposed of like militia gear.
Sit the **** down and wake up. BPOs are the poor man's way to save what little ISK he can against the people that cast away the "all in" like garbage.
Maggots.
This.
Removal of BPO's would create a larger ISK sink, but it is peanuts compared to the Corp ISK building up from PC.
I laugh when I hear people complain about the "game breaking" mechanic of BPO's. Have you ever heard of "BPO Stomping" in pubs? You haven't because people playing recklessly in BPO's is more easy kills for everyone else.
Play like an idiot, and for that we thank you.
Read the posts on the terrible ProtoStomping going on right now. People switch to STD or BPO fits when their team is being redlined. They are the ones using BPO's not the ProtoStompers. CCP should be working on a relevant ISK sink for PC, not stirring the pot over BPO's that worth less than a Proto rifle per match.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1016
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Posted - 2013.11.24 14:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kovinis Sparagas wrote:I ... don't go with expensive gear unless I know I won't lose it. BPOs are standard and militia gear. BPOs are not expensive; they are free. The only reason to use BPOs is because you are afraid of losing better gear or want to make ISK, in which case you'd fork over the couple of thousand ISK for a standard suit and gun without a second thought. BPOs don't replace prototype gear anymore than militia gear does. I run Templar gear to save a tiny amount of ISK for when I DO die, not so I can die MORE, and because it looks nice. I'm not running it instead of advanced or prototype gear any more than I used to run standard gear instead.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Pvt Numnutz
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
300
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:The problem with BPOs is that they are at militia level outside of the few standard level ones. The list that I am able to compile at the moment with their ISK variants' cost is as follows:
'Dren' Assault C-I -3000 'Dren' Logistics M-I -3000 'Dren' Sentinel A-I -3000 'Dren' Scout G-I -3000 'Dren' Scrambler Pistol -675 'Dren' Assault Rifle -1500 'Dren' Swarm Launcher -1500 'Dren' Shotgun -1500
That is the 'Dren' family.
'Covenant' Assault C-1 -3000 'Covenant' Sniper Rifle -1500
That is the 'Covenant' family.
Next are the few that don't have a "family".
'Exile' Assault Rifle -1500 'Dragonfly' Scout [nSv] -3000 'Valor' Scout G-I -3000
I currently am unable to bring up a list of the other gear that is standard and BPO, but I'm sure someone else can do it in my place. I also don't have every militia BPO (since I used standard anyways), so I'll also leave that to someone else that wants to put them up with the price of their ISK variants.
The costs of these items is extremely insignificant in the first place. Arguing that they are able to reduce the ISK loss too much is ignorant with the fact that militia gear is there for less than half the price of standard in most cases. You'll literally have to die over 50 times with no revives in a single match in order to lose money in full standard suit. The worst I have ever legitimately have seen someone die was at twenty-three and they still turned profit due to the insignificant cost of standard.
By the logic that BPOs reduce loss too much, then you'll also have to argue for the removal of militia. "But that's not the same thing!" Militia is there as a cost and skill reduced variant of the standards. They are disposable BPOs in that sense. Hell, they might as well be BPOs since they are so dirt cheap.
So, let's talk about the real crash of the ISK economy if it ever comes. Let's make people turn white and turn from the truth. There's a thing called "Planetary Conquest" that is the very definition of a broken system. By being part of PC, you make enough ISK to run proto without a single **** to the loss. The 3,000 ISK suit and the 1,500 Plasma Rifle that 'Dren' replaces is ******* scratch compared to the 57,000 ISK suit and 47,220 ISK Plasma Rifle that is thrown away like trash because of the broken system.
Prototype gear was meant to be the "all in" card. The "it's worth losing for the win". Not to be disposed of like militia gear.
Sit the **** down and wake up. BPOs are the poor man's way to save what little ISK he can against the people that cast away the "all in" like garbage.
Maggots. There is no economy right now. Proto suits aren't a card, they are the best equipment. The end game is to be the best equipped merc, if you had the money don't tell me you wouldn't run the best equipment that you could. I make a large profit from my bpos that fund my dropships, why is that a bad thing? I kill proto suits the same as other suits. Even if I die killing a pro suit 3 times that's only 30k isk and 150 wp, while his costs at least 100k for that one death. They earned that money, and they are spending it. I would have a fleet of pythons if I did PC.
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
43
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
BPO's are very good for the economy. Otherwise, there would be no way to make anything. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION
1006
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Posted - 2013.11.24 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Second Cerberus wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote: Prototype gear was meant to be the "all in" card. The "it's worth losing for the win". Not to be disposed of like militia gear.
Sit the **** down and wake up. BPOs are the poor man's way to save what little ISK he can against the people that cast away the "all in" like garbage.
Maggots.
This. Removal of BPO's would create a larger ISK sink, but it is peanuts compared to the Corp ISK building up from PC. I laugh when I hear people complain about the "game breaking" mechanic of BPO's. Have you ever heard of "BPO Stomping" in pubs? You haven't because people playing recklessly in BPO's is more easy kills for everyone else. Play like an idiot, and for that we thank you. Read the posts on the terrible ProtoStomping going on right now. People switch to STD or BPO fits when their team is being redlined. They are the ones using BPO's not the ProtoStompers. CCP should be working on a relevant ISK sink for PC, not stirring the pot over BPO's that worth less than a Proto rifle per match.
Oh we all agree that there needs to be a larger isk sink for higher end players but I think the new FW mechanics being introduced are supposed to be a first step in that direction. There does need to be a risk/reward dynamic in place for players in lower tier gear as well. Starter fits are the free "I'm going to go crazy," gear. After that you gain power and thus risk. Even though the price difference is extremely small this still brings the risk reward relationship down to the new players. BPO remove a portion of that relationship and thus, need to be removed.
Fun > Realism
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
48
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm all for removal of the BPOs (in its current form), and I have a lot of them... One can argue that with the limited price of militia gear BPOs makes no or little impact on the economy, but the same argument can actually be made FOR the removal of BPOs. If it makes no difference on your wallet, why not use standard militia gear?
I think the answer was touched before...usually because they LOOK good. They are seen as collector items, and that is the primary reason people fight for them.
Look, I really think the day will come where the rest of the BPOs will either be removed, or changed completely. What we should do (to quote the CPM), is to state what we want instead "to make our money worth"...
For me, I can accept equivalent Aurum... But that is a little boring. I still want to LOOK good, so preferably I would like all BPOs to be turned to unique "skins" which I can apply to any ISK suite I want. I can also go for the "manufacture" road, but that will require a lot more development on CCPs side I think.
So, what do you all want? |
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
146
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have 62 BPOs, all my loadouts are FREE, a 1.32 KDR, can go toe-toe with a Proto Cal-Logi without a second thought and still come out the other side..... oh, and 110,000,000 ISK saved up. Come at me bro.
I can has ISK
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