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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
372
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Posted - 2013.11.24 04:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yah, I do think that the weapon should be improved. At advanced and prototype levels the swarm launcher out DPSs the plasma cannon Vs. shields - At proto, by quite a great margine. The plasma cannon is supposed to be strong against shields and the swarm launcher weak against shield, yet this is not so...
Oh wait, you were talking about using tha PC against infantry weren't you? Are people really still trying to do that?
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
374
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Posted - 2013.11.24 05:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Howabout we fix it to be a good AV weapon like it was intended to be. And yes I have used the PC in atempt to AV. I think that it is a great weapon, but there is no point in attempting to whether its short comings when the swarm launcher puts out more damage and has a fire and forge mechanic. The direct damage of the PC needs to be brought up to a point were it out DPSs the swarm Vs. shields. Any kind of viability against infantry should be an after thought, an added bonus if it exists.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
374
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Posted - 2013.11.24 05:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:I think the plasma cannon in theory is amazing.
How they did the plasma cannon is insulting... They made another OHKO weapon on purpose...
Plasma cannon needed to be a massive AOE weapon with slow as hell reload... so it would take out a chunk of everyone's health in a massive area...
This way you could be like "Hey Bob, we need a plasma cannon shot on that group of enemies over there~" and he's stuck only with that weapon as it reload's for 5-10 seconds after.
With Grenade spam, Mass drivers, Forge guns, plasma cannons... the 1-2 hit death's are what is hurting this game much more then any Assault rifle.
It's intended to be an AV weapon. People don't seem to grasp this concept even in the slightest. *facepalm* *shakes his head*
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
375
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Posted - 2013.11.24 05:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
itsmellslikefish wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Bethhy wrote:I think the plasma cannon in theory is amazing.
How they did the plasma cannon is insulting... They made another OHKO weapon on purpose...
Plasma cannon needed to be a massive AOE weapon with slow as hell reload... so it would take out a chunk of everyone's health in a massive area...
This way you could be like "Hey Bob, we need a plasma cannon shot on that group of enemies over there~" and he's stuck only with that weapon as it reload's for 5-10 seconds after.
With Grenade spam, Mass drivers, Forge guns, plasma cannons... the 1-2 hit death's are what is hurting this game much more then any Assault rifle.
It's intended to be an AV weapon. People don't seem to grasp this concept even in the slightest. *facepalm* *shakes his head* and i was under the impression that it was meant to be a AOE weapon like the MD without the need to sacrifice your balls.
Negative. It was intended to be a light AV weapon that was viable against shields, with the added bonus that it could also be used against infantry if need be.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
380
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:It's important to remember it's a light AV weapon. So in terms of light vehicles, think about damage to light and medium vehicles. You shouldn't be thinking about taking out an HAV with just one Light AV. That's what heavy weapons are here for.
Say what? Have you ever heard of the swarm launcher? The only heavy AV weapon there is in the game is th FG. AV weapons are meant to combat vehicles not a specific vehicle subset.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
380
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:No Ghaz post yet? There are bugs, but spend some time perfecting it. It's very potent in skilled hands.
Except it is supposed to be an AV weapon that is good Vs. shields, yet it is out DPSed Vs. shields by a weapon that is supposed to be bad against shields. Why don't we fix the weapon to work as intended.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
392
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Posted - 2013.11.25 02:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:It's important to remember it's a light AV weapon. So in terms of light vehicles, think about damage to light and medium vehicles. You shouldn't be thinking about taking out an HAV with just one Light AV. That's what heavy weapons are here for. Say what? Have you ever heard of the swarm launcher? The only heavy AV weapon there is in the game is th FG. AV weapons are meant to combat vehicles not a specific vehicle subset. swarm launcher is obviously op. I'm not saying it shouldn't be effective but that it shouldn't be the first choice in dealing with HAVs . as in Solo ability. Plasma Cannons are the only anti-shield AV choice we currently have. They should be able to deal with Gunnlogis better than a Forge Gun. Even if there was a Heavy anti-shield weapon, high Plasma Cannon DPS is completely justifiable. I think ~2500 direct damage would be reasonable. That's enough to down a Gunnlogi in 3 shots with a standard one. Any tanker that allows a Plasma Cannon to hit them 3 times (12 seconds) deserves the death. This would allow Plasma Cannons to kill in 12 seconds compared yo the Swarms 18 seconds. The fact that they aren't fire-and-forget alone justifies a lower TTK. Combine that with massive projectile drop, long reloads, single fire capability, and low splash, 12 seconds to kill a tank sounds reasonable.
I think that 2500 is probably a little to much, what with a natural 10% damage bonus and damage mods, and you're talking about doing this at std, Nah. The proto swarm only puts out 1,980 raw damage per volly - with resistance Vs. shield it is only 1,584. Against armor it is 2,376. I would support a buff to maybe 2000 or 2100 at proto level, but that's about as far as I would go, but I am thinking more like 1700 or 1800. Swarms are to OP as it is and need a nerf, which is coming in 1.7 anyway.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
392
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Posted - 2013.11.25 02:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
ACE OF JOKERS wrote:The PC is a weapon that needs attention, IMO it should work as RPG's in other FPS games.
Somehow it fails to do so...
I cant really give detailed points on how to fix them since :
1-im not good with it
2-I havnt used it that much either
Dumb fired rockets have been tried before, in dust (the original swarms) and they were incredibly OP.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
394
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:
I got my terms messed up, sorry. What I meant is that it is MANY times harder to use than a Swarm Launcher, and should do more damage than them, much more damage, actually.
Honestly, the Plasma Cannon could do 4000 direct damage and not be OP, that would give it a DPS of 606, still less than most Swarms do.
2500 is a good compromise I think...
Edit: I don't think Plasma Cannons are UP. My SIG is a response to them many supposed "fixes" that some people spew. It is a response to people wanting to dumb down the weapon. I want it's mechanics to remain as they are (aside from its bugs).
I second this. Don't touch the mechanics. The weapon should remain hard to be used - this way it rewards skill and time invested in getting good with it. We already have too many idiotically simple weapons in Dust (AR and Swarms come to mind). Improving performance against vehicles seems reasonable. Thank you. I needed someone to agree with me, I can't believe some people are against the Plasma Cannon outperforming Swarm Launchers.
Well I, for one, am not disagreeing on that particular point. What I am saying is that your idea that the should have a raw damage of 2500 at standard is just absurd, and I think that the numbers that I posted earlyer demonstrate that pretty well. Come on man, don't be ridiculous now.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
395
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Posted - 2013.11.25 05:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:
I got my terms messed up, sorry. What I meant is that it is MANY times harder to use than a Swarm Launcher, and should do more damage than them, much more damage, actually.
Honestly, the Plasma Cannon could do 4000 direct damage and not be OP, that would give it a DPS of 606, still less than most Swarms do.
2500 is a good compromise I think...
Edit: I don't think Plasma Cannons are UP. My SIG is a response to them many supposed "fixes" that some people spew. It is a response to people wanting to dumb down the weapon. I want it's mechanics to remain as they are (aside from its bugs).
I second this. Don't touch the mechanics. The weapon should remain hard to be used - this way it rewards skill and time invested in getting good with it. We already have too many idiotically simple weapons in Dust (AR and Swarms come to mind). Improving performance against vehicles seems reasonable. Thank you. I needed someone to agree with me, I can't believe some people are against the Plasma Cannon outperforming Swarm Launchers. Well I, for one, am not disagreeing on that particular point. What I am saying is that your idea that the should have a raw damage of 2500 at standard is just absurd, and I think that the numbers that I posted earlyer demonstrate that pretty well. Come on man, don't be ridiculous now. I was actually thinking 2500 would be ADV damage. 2260 would be STD damage, and 2740 would be PRO. This would also solve the problem of there being no reason to use ADV or PRO Cannons.
Nah, I can't support that at all man, not with prof skill, damage mods plus an inharent 10% damage bonus to shields. Like I said the highest I would be willing to support would be 2100 at proto, and I think that that is still to much. I would be comfortable with 1700 or 1800 raw damage.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
395
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Posted - 2013.11.25 06:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I firmly believe an Allotek Plasma Cannon should be able to 2HK a well fitted Gunnlogi. STD and ADV Cannons should take 3. A well fitted Maddy should take 3 Allotek rounds, or 4 non-Allotek rounds.
I don't believe this is unbalanced in any way, considering 3 shots with a Plasma Cannon take at least 9.9 seconds (with rapid reload to V) to let off. This is not accounting for the time it takes to aim, the time it takes the round to reach the target, or the short ~0.25 second lockup that happens after firing. This puts the TTK to ~10.4 seconds at point blank range, where aiming doesn't take much time at all, and the rounds make contact almost immediately.
These are the optimal TTKs for the different HAVs at point blank range, using an Allotek Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload to level V
Gunnlogi: ~5.05 seconds
Madrugar: ~10.4 seconds
Using an ADV or STD Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload V:
Gunnlogi: ~10.4 seconds
Madrugar: ~15.35 seconds
(These next numbers are speculation, and they are my rough estimates, based on experience)
At ranges of 30-50m expect those numbers to increase by about 15%
At ranges of 60-100m expect those numbers to increase by about 40%
At ranges of 100-250m expect those numbers to increase by about 120%
This assumes all the rounds hit at these ranges, and unless you are a machine, you will never land every round at extreme ranges.
In closing, I believe 2500 direct damage is reasonable.
Well, I don't think that infantry should be soloing tanks and this seems to be what you are interested in. Tanks have it hard enough as is. The last thing we need is another over powered AV weapon. If there were adv and proto tank I may be more inclined to agree with you. But there isn't nor does it look like there will be any time soon. Like I said I like my numbers better.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
402
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Posted - 2013.11.26 02:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
HUNK tm wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I firmly believe an Allotek Plasma Cannon should be able to 2HK a well fitted Gunnlogi. STD and ADV Cannons should take 3. A well fitted Maddy should take 3 Allotek rounds, or 4 non-Allotek rounds.
I don't believe this is unbalanced in any way, considering 3 shots with a Plasma Cannon take at least 9.9 seconds (with rapid reload to V) to let off. This is not accounting for the time it takes to aim, the time it takes the round to reach the target, or the short ~0.25 second lockup that happens after firing. This puts the TTK to ~10.4 seconds at point blank range, where aiming doesn't take much time at all, and the rounds make contact almost immediately.
These are the optimal TTKs for the different HAVs at point blank range, using an Allotek Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload to level V
Gunnlogi: ~5.05 seconds
Madrugar: ~10.4 seconds
Using an ADV or STD Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload V:
Gunnlogi: ~10.4 seconds
Madrugar: ~15.35 seconds
(These next numbers are speculation, and they are my rough estimates, based on experience)
At ranges of 30-50m expect those numbers to increase by about 15%
At ranges of 60-100m expect those numbers to increase by about 40%
At ranges of 100-250m expect those numbers to increase by about 120%
This assumes all the rounds hit at these ranges, and unless you are a machine, you will never land every round at extreme ranges.
In closing, I believe 2500 direct damage is reasonable.
This was a good post. I agree with you. If you manage to get close to a vehicle equipped with a plasma cannon, the vehicle should be in big trouble. It would mean risk vs reward is balanced in some sense. PLC should be like a shotgun for tanks. Who thinks shotgun is OP because a skilled scout closed the distance and shot you in the back 3 times? I also think that the PLC should be a formidable weapon for tanks but if it made the mistake of being surprised at close range. 2500 damage on a vehicle does not seem excessive considering the difficulty to hit with. I really think that this weapon must find its usefulness on the battlefield.
3,996.95152
The above number is the damage a PC with 2500 raw damage would do against shields with prof 5 and 3 DMs.
2,877.8051
The above number is the damage a PC with 1800 raw damage would do against shields with prof 5 and 3 DMs.
Two shots with the 1800 PC would dig into the armor of most well fit shield tanks, at a total of 5,755.6102 against shields.
At 2,877.8051 the PC would dig into the armor of a well fit LLAV with the first shot
This is pretty balenced
With the 2500 version of the PC two simultaneous shots from two would instapop any shield vehicle, giving the pilot absolutly no time to respond. The damage would be 7,993.90304
At 3,996.95152 it would almost certainly instapop any shield LAV.
What you guys are asking for is just to much, far far to much.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
402
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 03:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:HUNK tm wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I firmly believe an Allotek Plasma Cannon should be able to 2HK a well fitted Gunnlogi. STD and ADV Cannons should take 3. A well fitted Maddy should take 3 Allotek rounds, or 4 non-Allotek rounds.
I don't believe this is unbalanced in any way, considering 3 shots with a Plasma Cannon take at least 9.9 seconds (with rapid reload to V) to let off. This is not accounting for the time it takes to aim, the time it takes the round to reach the target, or the short ~0.25 second lockup that happens after firing. This puts the TTK to ~10.4 seconds at point blank range, where aiming doesn't take much time at all, and the rounds make contact almost immediately.
These are the optimal TTKs for the different HAVs at point blank range, using an Allotek Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload to level V
Gunnlogi: ~5.05 seconds
Madrugar: ~10.4 seconds
Using an ADV or STD Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload V:
Gunnlogi: ~10.4 seconds
Madrugar: ~15.35 seconds
(These next numbers are speculation, and they are my rough estimates, based on experience)
At ranges of 30-50m expect those numbers to increase by about 15%
At ranges of 60-100m expect those numbers to increase by about 40%
At ranges of 100-250m expect those numbers to increase by about 120%
This assumes all the rounds hit at these ranges, and unless you are a machine, you will never land every round at extreme ranges.
In closing, I believe 2500 direct damage is reasonable.
This was a good post. I agree with you. If you manage to get close to a vehicle equipped with a plasma cannon, the vehicle should be in big trouble. It would mean risk vs reward is balanced in some sense. PLC should be like a shotgun for tanks. Who thinks shotgun is OP because a skilled scout closed the distance and shot you in the back 3 times? I also think that the PLC should be a formidable weapon for tanks but if it made the mistake of being surprised at close range. 2500 damage on a vehicle does not seem excessive considering the difficulty to hit with. I really think that this weapon must find its usefulness on the battlefield. 3,996.95152 The above number is the damage a PC with 2500 raw damage would do against shields with prof 5 and 3 DMs. 2,877.8051 The above number is the damage a PC with 1800 raw damage would do against shields with prof 5 and 3 DMs. Two shots with the 1800 PC would dig into the armor of most well fit shield tanks, at a total of 5,755.6102 against shields. At 2,877.8051 the PC would dig into the armor of a well fit LLAV with the first shot This is pretty balenced With the 2500 version of the PC two simultaneous shots from two coordinated sources would instapop any shield vehicle, giving the pilot absolutly no time to respond. The damage would be 7,993.90304 At 3,996.95152 it would almost certainly instapop any shield LAV. What you guys are asking for is just to much, far far to much. Proficiency V and 3 Complex Damage mods shouldn't be requirements to destroy an HAV. I see no problem with a Plasma Cannon instapopping an LAV, if Proficeincy V and 3 Complex damage mods are used. Have you ever tried to hit a moving LAV with a Cannon? Its REALLY hard.
Yes I have use the plasma cannon. It not about needing prof 5 and 3 DMs it is about what is not only possible but inevitable. And what you guys are asking for is not fair or balances even in the slightest. Two guys with PCs should not be able to instapop at tank under any circumstances.
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