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Fizzer94
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its fine. Don't "fix" it.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
HUNK tm wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Its fine. Don't "fix" it. I know what you think of when you think of a CCP "repair". ^^ But I think this is unfortunate that this weapon is almost nonexistent on the battlefield.
I am in favor of getting rid of its bug infestation. I shot a Gunnlogi 12 times today with a Plasma Cannon, 12 of the hits got a shield flare, I did no damage with what should have been enough rounds to destroy it 3 times over. It was infuriating.
The only buff to Plasma Cannons I would be okay with would be an increase to direct damage. 2 rounds from an Allotek should blow up any shield tank, 3 for Armor Tanks. And before you tankers say anything, think about this, this is reasonable.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
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Posted - 2013.11.24 11:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:I think the plasma cannon in theory is amazing.
How they did the plasma cannon is insulting... They made another OHKO weapon on purpose...
Plasma cannon needed to be a massive AOE weapon with slow as hell reload... so it would take out a chunk of everyone's health in a massive area...
This way you could be like "Hey Bob, we need a plasma cannon shot on that group of enemies over there~" and he's stuck only with that weapon as it reload's for 5-10 seconds after.
With Grenade spam, Mass drivers, Forge guns, plasma cannons... the 1-2 hit death's are what is hurting this game much more then any Assault rifle.
Are you seriously complaining about Plasma Cannons doing too much damage!?
For the sake of my sanity, never post again. WE DON'T NEED MORE EASYMODE WEAPONS, WE HAVE PLENTY.
If it were up to me, I would remove Locus Grenades, Mass Drivers, Swarm Launchers, Flaylocks, ARs, SMGs, HMGs, and Sniper Rifles. I would make ScRs charge only as well.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
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Posted - 2013.11.24 13:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:If CCP wanted to buff the AV capabilities, one option would be to give it adhesion like AV 'nades. It could be stronger adhesion the faster the vehicle is moving, with none if the vehicle is stationary. It's nearly impossible to hit a fast-moving LAV or Dropship, but this could make it more doable (still difficult) without making it OP against infantry.
I'm not sure what I think about this. Part of me wants to scream"NO, NOOB EASYMODE GO AWAY!", but the other part of me wants the Plasma Cannon to be viable against Vehicles. I think I would still prefer a direct damage buff, though.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
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Posted - 2013.11.25 00:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:It's important to remember it's a light AV weapon. So in terms of light vehicles, think about damage to light and medium vehicles. You shouldn't be thinking about taking out an HAV with just one Light AV. That's what heavy weapons are here for. Say what? Have you ever heard of the swarm launcher? The only heavy AV weapon there is in the game is th FG. AV weapons are meant to combat vehicles not a specific vehicle subset. swarm launcher is obviously op. I'm not saying it shouldn't be effective but that it shouldn't be the first choice in dealing with HAVs . as in Solo ability.
Plasma Cannons are the only anti-shield AV choice we currently have. They should be able to deal with Gunnlogis better than a Forge Gun.
Even if there was a Heavy anti-shield weapon, high Plasma Cannon DPS is completely justifiable. I think ~2500 direct damage would be reasonable. That's enough to down a Gunnlogi in 3 shots with a standard one. Any tanker that allows a Plasma Cannon to hit them 3 times (12 seconds) deserves the death.
This would allow Plasma Cannons to kill in 12 seconds compared yo the Swarms 18 seconds. The fact that they aren't fire-and-forget alone justifies a lower TTK. Combine that with massive projectile drop, long reloads, single fire capability, and low splash, 12 seconds to kill a tank sounds reasonable.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
945
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 03:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:It's important to remember it's a light AV weapon. So in terms of light vehicles, think about damage to light and medium vehicles. You shouldn't be thinking about taking out an HAV with just one Light AV. That's what heavy weapons are here for. Say what? Have you ever heard of the swarm launcher? The only heavy AV weapon there is in the game is th FG. AV weapons are meant to combat vehicles not a specific vehicle subset. swarm launcher is obviously op. I'm not saying it shouldn't be effective but that it shouldn't be the first choice in dealing with HAVs . as in Solo ability. Plasma Cannons are the only anti-shield AV choice we currently have. They should be able to deal with Gunnlogis better than a Forge Gun. Even if there was a Heavy anti-shield weapon, high Plasma Cannon DPS is completely justifiable. I think ~2500 direct damage would be reasonable. That's enough to down a Gunnlogi in 3 shots with a standard one. Any tanker that allows a Plasma Cannon to hit them 3 times (12 seconds) deserves the death. This would allow Plasma Cannons to kill in 12 seconds compared yo the Swarms 18 seconds. The fact that they aren't fire-and-forget alone justifies a lower TTK. Combine that with massive projectile drop, long reloads, single fire capability, and low splash, 12 seconds to kill a tank sounds reasonable. Your sig does not compute. Considering also that a plasma cannon is fire-and-forget; in that it is not guided by the operator after launch, but dumb-fire, half of your post makes no sense. If you are talking about the PC being AV, then splash damage is not even relevant. Also, in response to those of you responding to me about Ghaz not yet posting in this thread, I never said he was an authority. But the 10 vids he has made and posted about the use of the PC has been more informative of it's capabilities and short-comings then this random theory crafting going on here. 2500 base damage?! Really? 
I got my terms messed up, sorry. What I meant is that it is MANY times harder to use than a Swarm Launcher, and should do more damage than them, much more damage, actually.
Honestly, the Plasma Cannon could do 4000 direct damage and not be OP, that would give it a DPS of 606, still less than most Swarms do.
2500 is a good compromise I think...
Edit: I don't think Plasma Cannons are UP. My SIG is a response to them many supposed "fixes" that some people spew. It is a response to people wanting to dumb down the weapon. I want it's mechanics to remain as they are (aside from its bugs).
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
|
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
945
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 04:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Let's Compare.
.GǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪ..GǪ|Swarms| Forge Guns| Plasma Cannons
Damage per roundGǪGǪGǪGǪGǪ.| x | |
Range | | x |
DPS | x | |
Anti Infantry Capabilities | | x |
Maximum Ammo | | x |
Reload Speed | x | |
Ease of Use | x | |
Utility | | x |
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
|
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
945
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 04:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:
I got my terms messed up, sorry. What I meant is that it is MANY times harder to use than a Swarm Launcher, and should do more damage than them, much more damage, actually.
Honestly, the Plasma Cannon could do 4000 direct damage and not be OP, that would give it a DPS of 606, still less than most Swarms do.
2500 is a good compromise I think...
Edit: I don't think Plasma Cannons are UP. My SIG is a response to them many supposed "fixes" that some people spew. It is a response to people wanting to dumb down the weapon. I want it's mechanics to remain as they are (aside from its bugs).
I second this. Don't touch the mechanics. The weapon should remain hard to be used - this way it rewards skill and time invested in getting good with it. We already have too many idiotically simple weapons in Dust (AR and Swarms come to mind). Improving performance against vehicles seems reasonable.
Thank you. I needed someone to agree with me, I can't believe some people are against the Plasma Cannon outperforming Swarm Launchers.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
|
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
945
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Posted - 2013.11.25 05:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:
I got my terms messed up, sorry. What I meant is that it is MANY times harder to use than a Swarm Launcher, and should do more damage than them, much more damage, actually.
Honestly, the Plasma Cannon could do 4000 direct damage and not be OP, that would give it a DPS of 606, still less than most Swarms do.
2500 is a good compromise I think...
Edit: I don't think Plasma Cannons are UP. My SIG is a response to them many supposed "fixes" that some people spew. It is a response to people wanting to dumb down the weapon. I want it's mechanics to remain as they are (aside from its bugs).
I second this. Don't touch the mechanics. The weapon should remain hard to be used - this way it rewards skill and time invested in getting good with it. We already have too many idiotically simple weapons in Dust (AR and Swarms come to mind). Improving performance against vehicles seems reasonable. Thank you. I needed someone to agree with me, I can't believe some people are against the Plasma Cannon outperforming Swarm Launchers. Well I, for one, am not disagreeing on that particular point. What I am saying is that your idea that the should have a raw damage of 2500 at standard is just absurd, and I think that the numbers that I posted earlyer demonstrate that pretty well. Come on man, don't be ridiculous now.
I was actually thinking 2500 would be ADV damage. 2260 would be STD damage, and 2740 would be PRO. This would also solve the problem of there being no reason to use ADV or PRO Cannons.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
|
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
945
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 05:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
I firmly believe an Allotek Plasma Cannon should be able to 2HK a well fitted Gunnlogi. STD and ADV Cannons should take 3. A well fitted Maddy should take 3 Allotek rounds, or 4 non-Allotek rounds.
I don't believe this is unbalanced in any way, considering 3 shots with a Plasma Cannon take at least 9.9 seconds (with rapid reload to V) to let off. This is not accounting for the time it takes to aim, the time it takes the round to reach the target, or the short ~0.25 second lockup that happens after firing. This puts the TTK to ~10.4 seconds at point blank range, where aiming doesn't take much time at all, and the rounds make contact almost immediately.
These are the optimal TTKs for the different HAVs at point blank range, using an Allotek Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload to level V
Gunnlogi: ~5.05 seconds
Madrugar: ~10.4 seconds
Using an ADV or STD Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload V:
Gunnlogi: ~10.4 seconds
Madrugar: ~15.35 seconds
(These next numbers are speculation, and they are my rough estimates, based on experience)
At ranges of 30-50m expect those numbers to increase by about 15%
At ranges of 60-100m expect those numbers to increase by about 40%
At ranges of 100-250m expect those numbers to increase by about 120%
This assumes all the rounds hit at these ranges, and unless you are a machine, you will never land every round at extreme ranges.
In closing, I believe 2500 direct damage is reasonable.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
|
|
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
945
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 06:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I firmly believe an Allotek Plasma Cannon should be able to 2HK a well fitted Gunnlogi. STD and ADV Cannons should take 3. A well fitted Maddy should take 3 Allotek rounds, or 4 non-Allotek rounds.
I don't believe this is unbalanced in any way, considering 3 shots with a Plasma Cannon take at least 9.9 seconds (with rapid reload to V) to let off. This is not accounting for the time it takes to aim, the time it takes the round to reach the target, or the short ~0.25 second lockup that happens after firing. This puts the TTK to ~10.4 seconds at point blank range, where aiming doesn't take much time at all, and the rounds make contact almost immediately.
These are the optimal TTKs for the different HAVs at point blank range, using an Allotek Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload to level V
Gunnlogi: ~5.05 seconds
Madrugar: ~10.4 seconds
Using an ADV or STD Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload V:
Gunnlogi: ~10.4 seconds
Madrugar: ~15.35 seconds
(These next numbers are speculation, and they are my rough estimates, based on experience)
At ranges of 30-50m expect those numbers to increase by about 15%
At ranges of 60-100m expect those numbers to increase by about 40%
At ranges of 100-250m expect those numbers to increase by about 120%
This assumes all the rounds hit at these ranges, and unless you are a machine, you will never land every round at extreme ranges.
In closing, I believe 2500 direct damage is reasonable.
Well, I don't think that infantry should be soloing tank and this seems to be what you are interested in. Tank have it hard enough as is. The last think we need is another over powered AV weapon. If there were adv and proto tank I may be more inclined to agree with you. But there isn't nor does it look like there will be any time soon. Like I said I like my numbers better.
Sometimes, soloing a tank should be a completely viable option. This is one of those times.
I was a dedicated tanker once upon a time, so I know both sides of the story better than most. I hated getting soloed by Forges/Swarms, but that was because there was no way to retaliate as their weapons outranged my own, or just felt cheap to be killed by because they were so easy to use. Also ISK, tanks should cost less, I never had money.
Plasma Cannons don't have the range (they do on paper, but in practice they don't) to compete with Large Turrets so that isn't really an issue, and Plasma Cannons are in no way easy to use.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
REMOVE ALL BPOs
|
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
980
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 03:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:HUNK tm wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:I firmly believe an Allotek Plasma Cannon should be able to 2HK a well fitted Gunnlogi. STD and ADV Cannons should take 3. A well fitted Maddy should take 3 Allotek rounds, or 4 non-Allotek rounds.
I don't believe this is unbalanced in any way, considering 3 shots with a Plasma Cannon take at least 9.9 seconds (with rapid reload to V) to let off. This is not accounting for the time it takes to aim, the time it takes the round to reach the target, or the short ~0.25 second lockup that happens after firing. This puts the TTK to ~10.4 seconds at point blank range, where aiming doesn't take much time at all, and the rounds make contact almost immediately.
These are the optimal TTKs for the different HAVs at point blank range, using an Allotek Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload to level V
Gunnlogi: ~5.05 seconds
Madrugar: ~10.4 seconds
Using an ADV or STD Plasma Cannon, with Rapid Reload V:
Gunnlogi: ~10.4 seconds
Madrugar: ~15.35 seconds
(These next numbers are speculation, and they are my rough estimates, based on experience)
At ranges of 30-50m expect those numbers to increase by about 15%
At ranges of 60-100m expect those numbers to increase by about 40%
At ranges of 100-250m expect those numbers to increase by about 120%
This assumes all the rounds hit at these ranges, and unless you are a machine, you will never land every round at extreme ranges.
In closing, I believe 2500 direct damage is reasonable.
This was a good post. I agree with you. If you manage to get close to a vehicle equipped with a plasma cannon, the vehicle should be in big trouble. It would mean risk vs reward is balanced in some sense. PLC should be like a shotgun for tanks. Who thinks shotgun is OP because a skilled scout closed the distance and shot you in the back 3 times? I also think that the PLC should be a formidable weapon for tanks but if it made the mistake of being surprised at close range. 2500 damage on a vehicle does not seem excessive considering the difficulty to hit with. I really think that this weapon must find its usefulness on the battlefield. 3,996.95152 The above number is the damage a PC with 2500 raw damage would do against shields with prof 5 and 3 DMs. 2,877.8051 The above number is the damage a PC with 1800 raw damage would do against shields with prof 5 and 3 DMs. Two shots with the 1800 PC would dig into the armor of most well fit shield tanks, at a total of 5,755.6102 against shields. At 2,877.8051 the PC would dig into the armor of a well fit LLAV with the first shot This is pretty balenced With the 2500 version of the PC two simultaneous shots from two coordinated sources would instapop any shield vehicle, giving the pilot absolutly no time to respond. The damage would be 7,993.90304 At 3,996.95152 it would almost certainly instapop any shield LAV. What you guys are asking for is just to much, far far to much.
Proficiency V and 3 Complex Damage mods shouldn't be requirements to destroy an HAV.
I see no problem with a Plasma Cannon instapopping an LAV, if Proficeincy V and 3 Complex damage mods are used. Have you ever tried to hit a moving LAV with a Cannon? Its REALLY hard.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
BUFF PLASMA CANNON DIRECT DAMAGE
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