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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've sent a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading (UK equivalent of America's national consumer rights government body) regarding the removal of in-game content (vehicle BPO) that I have purchased from Sony, which is now being removed by a third party who was not party to the purchase agreement, and who is infringing on my consumer rights. I have made a complaint under the following circumstances, failure to comply with Sales of Goods Act 1979, as well as a complaint regarding underhand business tactics and poor customer service.
I would also like you all to note a little extract taken from moneysavingexpert.com
Understanding the law If you've got a dispute going on, it's important not just to know your rights, but to understand how and why they work.
Every time you buy something, be it a mobile phone from a mate or a week in Cuba from a travel agent, you make a contract with the seller. What does this contract really mean?
Both you and the other party agree to terms and conditions. The seller has agreed to provide your 'statutory rights'.
*Note the phrase the seller has agreed to provide your statutory rights, not a third party developer, producer, manufacturer, burger van owner or car salesman.
I encourage everyone to exercise their consumer rights and seek legal advice against CCP, and do not be afraid to take action If you get the go-ahead From your legal advisor or consumer rights group, as I certainly will be.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Khemlar Maktaar wrote:When you bought it you signed an agreement that no refunds would be givin read the terms of the sale u ******* dope
The purchase agreement was with Sony and not CCP, therefore If Sony were to be the ones removing my BPOs then it would be a different matter, but seeing as its not, and CCP are the ones interfering with something that they were not party to, I am well within my rights as a consumer to lodge a complaint and seek legal advice.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Can you not read? They are only removing militia equipment bpos....
Of which I have more than 30, that certainly tops my Blood Raider Saga and Ishukone Watch Saga, so my point still stands, and it's even more serious now.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm submitting another complaint as you read this comment right now, tell me what I can and can't do when consumer rights are involved.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Kinda sad you need a lawyer to read the EULA for you :(
EULA does NOT exempt Sony, CCP, or any other company from UK and EU law, especially when said company advertises an item with a limited offer (aka BPOs) with a big promotional offer, only to then remove said items offered in the promotion less than 3 months later. THAT is an underhand business tactic, exploitation and more than worthy of a complaint to the office of fait trading and consumer rights groups.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I've sent a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading (UK equivalent of America's national consumer rights government body) regarding the removal of in-game content (vehicle BPO) that I have purchased from Sony, which is now being removed by a third party who was not party to the purchase agreement, and who is infringing on my consumer rights. I have made a complaint under the following circumstances, failure to comply with Sales of Goods Act 1979, as well as a complaint regarding underhand business tactics and poor customer service.
I would also like you all to note a little extract taken from moneysavingexpert.com
Understanding the law If you've got a dispute going on, it's important not just to know your rights, but to understand how and why they work.
Every time you buy something, be it a mobile phone from a mate or a week in Cuba from a travel agent, you make a contract with the seller. What does this contract really mean?
Both you and the other party agree to terms and conditions. The seller has agreed to provide your 'statutory rights'.
*Note the phrase the seller has agreed to provide your statutory rights, not a third party developer, producer, manufacturer, burger van owner or car salesman.
I encourage everyone to exercise their consumer rights and seek legal advice against CCP, and do not be afraid to take action If you get the go-ahead From your legal advisor or consumer rights group, as I certainly will be. Part of the agreement you make when purchasing stuff from CCP says that CCP has rights to change and reimburse you, the consumer, with any item(s) of (what they deem as) equivalent value. Your getting reimbursed anyway, so I don't see the problem here......
Part of my rights as a consumer is to request a refund of equal measure if I am not satisfied with the terms offered when one party to the purchase agreement decides to change it. As a consumer I am legally entitled to request a CASH refund of equal value If CCP decides that it does not want to honor the original agreement. I suguest you educate yourself a little more on consumer rights, and stop banging your head against EULAs.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:Marston VC wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I've sent a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading (UK equivalent of America's national consumer rights government body) regarding the removal of in-game content (vehicle BPO) that I have purchased from Sony, which is now being removed by a third party who was not party to the purchase agreement, and who is infringing on my consumer rights. I have made a complaint under the following circumstances, failure to comply with Sales of Goods Act 1979, as well as a complaint regarding underhand business tactics and poor customer service.
I would also like you all to note a little extract taken from moneysavingexpert.com
Understanding the law If you've got a dispute going on, it's important not just to know your rights, but to understand how and why they work.
Every time you buy something, be it a mobile phone from a mate or a week in Cuba from a travel agent, you make a contract with the seller. What does this contract really mean?
Both you and the other party agree to terms and conditions. The seller has agreed to provide your 'statutory rights'.
*Note the phrase the seller has agreed to provide your statutory rights, not a third party developer, producer, manufacturer, burger van owner or car salesman.
I encourage everyone to exercise their consumer rights and seek legal advice against CCP, and do not be afraid to take action If you get the go-ahead From your legal advisor or consumer rights group, as I certainly will be. Part of the agreement you make when purchasing stuff from CCP says that CCP has rights to change and reimburse you, the consumer, with any item(s) of (what they deem as) equivalent value. Your getting reimbursed anyway, so I don't see the problem here...... Let it he a stupie guy who wants to sue a big company who has way better lawyer that he could ever think of getting only cause he hasnt got a bpo that is getting refunded anyways and wasnt part of any promotion
I don't need to pay for an expensive lawyer, as I'm a UK and EU citizen. You see thacts the great tthing about not being an American, it's that my government actually protects my rights and the Office of Fair Trading can fight my claim for me for free, because after all, the British Government works for the people.
I can has ISK
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Smots Ju-Kyu wrote:OP you are an idiot. Go back to this Thread and read very carefully. They list all the modules/turrets/vehicles and nowhere on that list are LAV BPO's that you are crying about. Whoever gets your complaint is gonna **** their pants laughing at you.
LAV BPOs, Vehicle Module BPOs, it makes no difference, I am exercising my legal rights as a consumer against a company that wishes to infringe upon them, by not honoring the original purchase agreement and not offering a CASH refund of equal value, of which I am legally entitled to.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
99
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:EULA does NOT exempt Sony, CCP, or any other company from UK and EU law, especially when said company advertises an item with a limited offer (aka BPOs) with a big promotional offer, only to then remove said items offered in the promotion less than 3 months later. ... except the BPOs in question were not, and never have been, part of a promotional offer. All BPOs that were part of a promotional offer are still in the game. So what leg are you standing on?
Around September/October 5th or whenever it was eexactly, CCP put out a promotion of the marketplace homecreen encouraging people to spend AUR, which has real world value, to buy BPOs before they were removed From the market. Now these militia vehicle module BPOs, of whcih I bought near on 6 where bought with AUR, as the promotion clearly stated that they would be removed after said date. Now there was no mention that these BPOs would then go on to be removed entirely less than 3 months later, and believe me if there had been I wouldn't have purchased an aurumn pack to buy my militia BPOs in the first place. That is why Ive submitted a complaint, and that is why more people should do too. CCP is using misleading promotional campaigns, which have deceived me into spending money to buys something that they intended to later remove and that is a breach of the Sales of Goods Act and my consumer rights.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
102
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:
... except the BPOs in question were not, and never have been, part of a promotional offer. All BPOs that were part of a promotional offer are still in the game.
So what leg are you standing on?
This post here where CCP is telling you to "HURRY UP AND BUY" https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1420895#post1420895The fact that they made a dev post encouraging you to buy items that not a couple of months later they were going to remove. It is misleading to the customer and basically a swindle perpetrated by CCP to create a massive influx of money that had people known then that this would happen would probably not have made a purchase of AUR to buy said items. BAD BUSINESS CCP! I hope his suit has a leg and actually goes somewhere. Would you buy a new fridge simply because you saw a Whirlpool ad, even though it would add absolutely nothing to your life? Probably not. It was your decision to buy, not CCP's. That's like saying it's the stove's fault you stuck your hand in the fire.
Being a victim of false advertisement doesn't make you an idiot, it just makes the corporation and idiot for trying to pull the wool over your eyes, fleece you for your money and exploit you as a consumer and expect to get away with it without facing any repercussions.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
102
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:
... except the BPOs in question were not, and never have been, part of a promotional offer. All BPOs that were part of a promotional offer are still in the game.
So what leg are you standing on?
This post here where CCP is telling you to "HURRY UP AND BUY" https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1420895#post1420895The fact that they made a dev post encouraging you to buy items that not a couple of months later they were going to remove. It is misleading to the customer and basically a swindle perpetrated by CCP to create a massive influx of money that had people known then that this would happen would probably not have made a purchase of AUR to buy said items. BAD BUSINESS CCP! I hope his suit has a leg and actually goes somewhere.
Thanks for sending me this post, I'm submitting a JPEG and link to the post in the morning, just one more bit of evidence of corporate malpractice on CCPs behalf.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
102
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: I don't need to pay for an expensive lawyer, as I'm a UK and EU citizen. You see thacts the great tthing about not being an American, it's that my government actually protects my rights and the Office of Fair Trading can fight my claim for me for free, because after all, the British Government works for the people.
I actually think you are being fictitious, and have alternative goals because the cost does not equal the effort. But since you decided to bring up countries.... All this says to me is that the EU/UK subsidize the frivolous and opportunistic. In fact back in the states we have laws which can turn around court costs directed at those who waste everyone time. Like a case over a $5 dispute which is covered by a EULA to cost several thousands to the rest of society for to process.
Value of complaint doesn't matter in the UK, the bigger issue here is of the corporate malpractice on CCPs part, of which I as a consumer have been a victim of, and will NOT let them get away with.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
102
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
trooper7041 wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:I don't see this ending particularly well for you.
At least where I am, one can walk into a lawyers office and receive a free consultation, I suggest you do the same and see exactly how "solid" your ground is, or lack thereof. The lawyer: "I'm sorry sir, but we can't go any further with this case. If you purchased this yourself then MAYBE we have something. But seeing how you needed to use your mothers credit card, technically CCP/Sony doesn't owe you anything." Yelhsa Jin-Mao: "SUE THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT!!!"
I purchased the pack with my own credit card with money from my account that I have earned from spending my time working, so you kind of fell flat on your face.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
104
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
trooper7041 wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:EULA does NOT exempt Sony, CCP, or any other company from UK and EU law, especially when said company advertises an item with a limited offer (aka BPOs) with a big promotional offer, only to then remove said items offered in the promotion less than 3 months later. ... except the BPOs in question were not, and never have been, part of a promotional offer. All BPOs that were part of a promotional offer are still in the game. So what leg are you standing on? Around September/October 5th or whenever it was eexactly, CCP put out a promotion of the marketplace homecreen encouraging people to spend AUR, which has real world value, to buy BPOs before they were removed From the market. Now these militia vehicle module BPOs, of whcih I bought near on 6 where bought with AUR, as the promotion clearly stated that they would be removed after said date. Now there was no mention that these BPOs would then go on to be removed entirely less than 3 months later, and believe me if there had been I wouldn't have purchased an aurumn pack to buy my militia BPOs in the first place. That is why Ive submitted a complaint, and that is why more people should do too. CCP is using misleading promotional campaigns, which have deceived me into spending money to buys something that they intended to later remove and that is a breach of the Sales of Goods Act and my consumer rights. So you first buy AUR. CCP says, "hey buy this BPO because it will be gone soon." You buy the BPO and then proceed to use it to earn a pretty hefty sum of ISK. CCP removes the BPO and gives you back you AUR. Should you give back all the ISK you made while using the BPO?
ISK has no real world value, however the AUR that I had purchased does, yet I can't get that money back becausr AUR is non transferable or refundable so CCP says. Imagine being sold chip's at a casino, to play a game of roulette, win a game or two, only to have the roulette table close, and then find the chips you won are non transferable back into cash. But hey, at least you can go play a game of slots with all the chips you got, but you still won't get any cash!
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
104
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:Q: What happens to my existing Blueprints? A: Your existing Blueprints will remain in your inventory. Note that from the 8th of October, you will be unable to purchase new Blueprints except via the Veteran and Elite packs on the PlayStation-« Store.
this^^^
I understand why they are removing the 4 stated BPO's
the MAJOR problem I see with this is if we let CCP take advantage of us like this
they are surely gonna do it again in the future and thats not cool
most if not all players that are caught in this BPO removal
need to stand up and say something before they remove more BPO's
Exactly, once they start, whose to say they will stop. CCP are behaving like the *****, oh, we only want your little Polandish Vehicle Modules, oh dankershern... Bein we want all of your European BPOs, all of them. Zeich Hiel Aurumn BPCs.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2013.11.21 04:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:trooper7041 wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:EULA does NOT exempt Sony, CCP, or any other company from UK and EU law, especially when said company advertises an item with a limited offer (aka BPOs) with a big promotional offer, only to then remove said items offered in the promotion less than 3 months later. ... except the BPOs in question were not, and never have been, part of a promotional offer. All BPOs that were part of a promotional offer are still in the game. So what leg are you standing on? Around September/October 5th or whenever it was eexactly, CCP put out a promotion of the marketplace homecreen encouraging people to spend AUR, which has real world value, to buy BPOs before they were removed From the market. Now these militia vehicle module BPOs, of whcih I bought near on 6 where bought with AUR, as the promotion clearly stated that they would be removed after said date. Now there was no mention that these BPOs would then go on to be removed entirely less than 3 months later, and believe me if there had been I wouldn't have purchased an aurumn pack to buy my militia BPOs in the first place. That is why Ive submitted a complaint, and that is why more people should do too. CCP is using misleading promotional campaigns, which have deceived me into spending money to buys something that they intended to later remove and that is a breach of the Sales of Goods Act and my consumer rights. So you first buy AUR. CCP says, "hey buy this BPO because it will be gone soon." You buy the BPO and then proceed to use it to earn a pretty hefty sum of ISK. CCP removes the BPO and gives you back you AUR. Should you give back all the ISK you made while using the BPO? you missed the most important part... I only bought the aur to get the bpo. now they take the bpo but give me the aur that I now have no use for because I don't need boosters and I don't like the aur gear... a psn credit is the only answer short of letting me keep the bpo's
Agreed, PSN credits or CASH. Then I can go buy GTAV instead of this garbage
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2013.11.21 04:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:To be honest, I'm quite surprised at the level of vitriol directed towards the OP for exercising his (her?) legal rights in an instance where they felt they had been unfairly dealt with by CCP/Sony.
Regardless of whether you think the action is warranted, consumer protection laws are in place to allow an individual to seek redress from corporations without fear that their chance of a fair hearing would be sunk by the deep pockets and legal representation of the company involved.
Not my cup of tea, but I support the OPs intent and right to challenge this legally, regardless of the outcome.
Someone who doesn't have their head stuck up CCPs arse licking their prostate.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
107
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Posted - 2013.11.21 04:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Khemlar Maktaar wrote:When you bought it you signed an agreement that no refunds would be givin read the terms of the sale u ******* dope right no refunds... they also didn't say anything about paying for something they take away.... they made a deal to give me something with no refund not to give me something they are going to take away without a refund... what a handful of dopes we have here spouting EULA stuff they probably didn't read or understand.... they have no right to take our money for stuff they are taking out. They are reimbursing you with AUR for however much the BPO cost with AUR. It's legal. but I only bought the aur for the bpo... I wouldn't have bought the aur otherwise... its underhanded.. That's the law. They are reimbursing you a product of equal or greater value. IF you buy a PS4, but then a mandatory recall comes up, so they give you 2 free PS3's, even if you didn't want it/pay for it, its legal in that you maintained the value of your purchase.
Nope. Does 600 $1 gobstoppers sound like a reasonable replacement for Your PS4 aswell by your logic so long as they have a Sony logo on them.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
124
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:@OP: It sounds like CCP could not win in this situation. For balance purposes they completely removed those BPOs and related STD/ADV/PRO modules, and they are nice enough to refund the AUR from those modules.
So instead of removing the module BPOs from your inventory (because they will be completely unusable) you sound like you'd be happy if they left them in, but made them unusable. But wait you wouldn't be happy with that, and try to 'sue' them over that as well.
Look, game balance dictates that these items have to go, be happy that they are refunding your AUR.
However, I agree (a little bit) that the removal of BPOs from other packs (that don't have a current known AUR value) would anger me.
CCP is not removing my Blood Raider Saga or my Ishukone Watch Saga, which I usr my BPOs on, so no they won't be useless as I would stI'll be using them the way I do now after the update.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
124
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Posted - 2013.11.21 16:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sleepy Shadow wrote:OKGǪ CCP created revenue by advertising permanent in game items (note that it doesnGÇÖt matter when you purchased these items, they were always advertised as permanent), they confirmed that our BPOGÇÖs will remain with our characters and even urged us to buy them before they are no longer available. By removing these items they have breached the contract and are liable to compensate.
Now, a seller can cancel the contract (purchase) but both the seller and buyer must agree on the terms. The seller cannot mandate what compensation suits the buyer. They can offer store credit (AUR in this case) but if the buyer does not accept the terms, they must refund cash or offer a similar product. Seeing as similar product is not available, then cash it is.
EULA will never surpass this and to be honest, this is not about the EULA anyway. A product was advertised, confirmed to be permanent and then removed. If 3000 people purchased $5 worth of BPOGÇÖs, CCP made $15,000.00. AUR is not a fair trade, as players are out of money and it is replaced by in game currency that is not valid currency outside the game. Giving AUR costs CCP nothing.
IGÇÖm upset that they are removing the 4 BPOGÇÖs, not because IGÇÖm financially ruined or because the items were brilliant but because it goes against what they said to us. They said they will not be removing BPOGÇÖs but what do you call this then? I can let this slide but if CCP starts eyeballing any other BPOGÇÖs I have, they will have to refund me PSN credit. I have too much AUR already, thereGÇÖs nothing on the market that I want to spend it on. Sure, I can get some boosters but I have over 23 mil SP on my character so it seems a little pointless plus I still have, I think, 2 passive boosters and 1 active waiting to be used.
^This. I agree with everything you said except I am NOT willing to let this slide. Once you give them an inch, CCP will take a mile, and it will be paved with the nerfed BPOs that you paid really money to get.
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