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give us our swarm launcher sp back

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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 511	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:42:00 - [1] - Quote ccp you have done just as big a change to swarms as you have to vehicles yet they get a full vehicle respec and swarmers get nothing. i think that's bang out of order. i think av users deserve a fresh start the same as vehicle users do. i don't think it is asking too much to be treated the same when such drastic changes have been implemented. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Ridire Greine 22	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:46:00 - [2] - Quote In that case Callogis should get their SP back, Flaylockers should get their SP back, .etc The changes aren't as big as people think, most of the AV SL tactics used today will still be viable after the 'Nerf'. Thats Rid-air-a Gray-nah, for all you scrubs out there. D:
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 407	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:48:00 - [3] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: In that case Callogis should get their SP back, Flaylockers should get their SP back, .etc The changes aren't as big as people think, most of the AV SL tactics used today will still be viable after the 'Nerf'. I completely agree. Any skill that has been altered, any suit that has been altered, any weapon that has been altered should be refunded so that players can rest assured that when their skill/suit/weapon changes they will not have skilled into something they were falsely guided into. Director (Management) D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2378	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:48:00 - [4] - Quote I'm going to put my anti-supply depot weapon to good use. HellsGÇáorm, Director Bringing the Wrath of God down on the Matari since YC114
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 513	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:50:00 - [5] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: In that case Callogis should get their SP back, Flaylockers should get their SP back, .etc The changes aren't as big as people think, most of the AV SL tactics used today will still be viable after the 'Nerf'. flaylocks have the same skills, same range, marginally less damage and radius than before, call logis lost a little cpu/pg, same skills and can still be fit almost identically as they were before. swarms have had most of their skills changed, damage massively reduced, range more than half what it used to be and clip size reduced. id say thats a damn sight more than a tiny insignificant balancing nerf seen by every other item in the game short of vehicles. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 513	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:52:00 - [6] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: I'm going to put my anti-supply depot weapon to good use. thats about all its going to be good for. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Ridire Greine 23	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:57:00 - [7] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Ridire Greine wrote: In that case Callogis should get their SP back, Flaylockers should get their SP back, .etc The changes aren't as big as people think, most of the AV SL tactics used today will still be viable after the 'Nerf'. flaylocks have the same skills, same range, marginally less damage and radius than before, call logis lost a little cpu/pg, same skills and can still be fit almost identically as they were before. swarms have had most of their skills changed, damage massively reduced, range more than half what it used to be and clip size reduced. id say thats a damn sight more than a tiny insignificant balancing nerf seen by every other item in the game short of vehicles. Callogi skill was actually changed, and SL skill hasn't changed (Unless they told us it has) CalLogi suit cost = 2.1mil SP SL Cost = 610k SP There is no need for a respec. Thats Rid-air-a Gray-nah, for all you scrubs out there. D:
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 410	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:59:00 - [8] - Quote Completely agree with the OP. Imagine what kind of response players would give if we nerfed the AR, sniper rifle, or forge gun to 2/3rds its current damage and 1/2 its range? The player base would be up in arms, demanding a respec.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 410	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:04:00 - [9] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Callogi skill was actually changed, and SL skill hasn't changed (Unless they told us it has) CalLogi suit cost = 2.1mil SP SL Cost = 610k SP There is no need for a respec. I guess you forgot that some people spec into the subskills of a weapon. A fully upgraded SL could have 5.902 mil SP invested into the entire tree. So by CCP's decree, the damage of your weapon is decreased by 1/3, and it's range decreased by more than 1/2? When has there ever been a nerf that bad to any weapon, suit, or vehicle?
Ridire Greine 24	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:08:00 - [10] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Ridire Greine wrote: Callogi skill was actually changed, and SL skill hasn't changed (Unless they told us it has) CalLogi suit cost = 2.1mil SP SL Cost = 610k SP There is no need for a respec. I guess you forgot that some people spec into the subskills of a weapon. A fully upgraded SL could have 5.902 mil SP invested into the entire tree. So by CCP's decree, the damage of your weapon is decreased by 1/3, and it's range decreased by more than 1/2? When has there ever been a nerf that bad to any weapon, suit, or vehicle? Flaylock Thats Rid-air-a Gray-nah, for all you scrubs out there. D:

daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 376	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:09:00 - [11] - Quote SL damage has been adapted to new vehicle hp and play .. that's all.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 411	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:09:00 - [12] - Quote The Flaylock's range was reduced to less than half of it's former range? I'm not talking about splash radius.
Nin Ker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:12:00 - [13] - Quote I don't think you should have it refunded. It's a dumb fire weapon that lacks any skill to actually use and yet can wipe out stuff that costs millions of ISK. Sure it will do less damage but that just means you might have to work with some to destroy a vehicle as opposed to standing on a hive and solo'ing it.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 413	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:30:00 - [14] - Quote Nin Ker wrote: I don't think you should have it refunded. It's a dumb fire weapon that lacks any skill to actually use and yet can wipe out stuff that costs millions of ISK. Sure it will do less damage but that just means you might have to work with some to destroy a vehicle as opposed to standing on a hive and solo'ing it. Stop thinking about this particular weapon, and think about what CCP is actually doing here. Think about what would happen if your weapon of choice were also reduced by 1/2 of its current range, and 1/3rd of its current damage. Do you think that's fair?
Ridire Greine 25	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:32:00 - [15] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Nin Ker wrote: I don't think you should have it refunded. It's a dumb fire weapon that lacks any skill to actually use and yet can wipe out stuff that costs millions of ISK. Sure it will do less damage but that just means you might have to work with some to destroy a vehicle as opposed to standing on a hive and solo'ing it. Stop thinking about this particular weapon, and think about what CCP is actually doing here. Think about what would happen if your weapon of choice were also reduced by 1/2 of its current range, and 1/3rd of its current damage. Do you think that's fair? If it was OP, yes. I thought it was fair when my Flaylock was nerfed. Thats Rid-air-a Gray-nah, for all you scrubs out there. D:
Nin Ker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:37:00 - [16] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Nin Ker wrote: I don't think you should have it refunded. It's a dumb fire weapon that lacks any skill to actually use and yet can wipe out stuff that costs millions of ISK. Sure it will do less damage but that just means you might have to work with some to destroy a vehicle as opposed to standing on a hive and solo'ing it. Stop thinking about this particular weapon, and think about what CCP is actually doing here. Think about what would happen if your weapon of choice were also reduced by 1/2 of its current range, and 1/3rd of its current damage. Do you think that's fair? Respectfully, I play as a heavy and use the HMG. Don't come crying to me about fair :)
darkiller240 K-A-O-S theory 180	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:37:00 - [17] - Quote No, you chose to use an OP noob weapon now youl suffer the consequses viechals owners shall get a respec as they sufferred all this time but AV, unless the the plasma cannon forget about it "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
pdiddy anfama KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 78	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:39:00 - [18] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: ccp you have done just as big a change to swarms as you have to vehicles yet they get a full vehicle respec and swarmers get nothing. i think that's bang out of order. i think av users deserve a fresh start the same as vehicle users do. i don't think it is asking too much to be treated the same when such drastic changes have been implemented. like if you agree And that's why I said we all should get respecs. It makes it fair and balanced.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 482	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:45:00 - [19] - Quote wait how are the vehicle skills getting respecced? are they raising or lowering the prices for sp needed to invest?...
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1364	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:15:00 - [20] - Quote CCP isn't just changing the vehicles, they're changing the skill tree for vehicles. As in, how much SP you need to spend in various skills in order to use the things. In addition to this they're eliminating lots of modules entirely, meaning you might have spent 2 million SP in order to unlock and upgrade a module that no longer exists. That's a very different thing from tweaking the properties of swarm launchers. In an MMO player classes and items get tweaked constantly, and players don't get to rebuild their entire character just because something was changed to bring it into balance. If you're doing that you may as well not have a character development system at all because your choices are meaningless. Like it or not, Dust is an MMO. "Oh, I don't like this anymore. I'll respend those points on this instead."

Savage Mangler DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:53:00 - [21] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: CCP isn't just changing the vehicles, they're changing the skill tree for vehicles. As in, how much SP you need to spend in various skills in order to use the things. In addition to this they're eliminating lots of modules entirely, meaning you might have spent 2 million SP in order to unlock and upgrade a module that no longer exists. That's a very different thing from tweaking the properties of swarm launchers. In an MMO player classes and items get tweaked constantly, and players don't get to rebuild their entire character just because something was changed to bring it into balance. If you're doing that you may as well not have a character development system at all because your choices are meaningless. Like it or not, Dust is an MMO. "Oh, I don't like this anymore. I'll respend those points on this instead." Having played many mmos ( guild wars, aion, ragnarok online, even WoW for a short period of time), I find your argument a little off point. I remember when dervishes got totally reworked in gw. Our entire role in the party got changed. We went from frontline magic tornadoes of death to an sellf buffing offtank with a some PBAoE. Yes we adapted, but only because you could reallocate your skill points whenever you felt like it. You can respec in WoW as well, for a minor fee that grows as you level up and respec. Same goes for RO, but you had to pay for it, and that was a game where being 10 stat points off made you significantly less useful in PvP. Dust doesn't have that. Now if it did, it would lead to fotm fits running rampant. If people want respecs, there needs to be some sort of repercussion for it. Give each character 1 respec token, like how league of legends gave refund tokens. Make them non replenishing as well.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2234	Posted - 2013.11.20 22:35:00 - [22] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: In that case Callogis should get their SP back, Flaylockers should get their SP back, .etc The changes aren't as big as people think, most of the AV SL tactics used today will still be viable after the 'Nerf'. This is not the same as regular nerfs. The function of those items was basically the same, just reduced across most of their stats. Drastically reducing one single detail of a weapon changes how it is used enormously. You would be effectively changing the role of the weapon. Unless the vehicle changes mean that swarms are still the number 1 AV option, I don't think it's asking too much to have a swarm respec alongside what vehicle users are getting. No.
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 56	Posted - 2013.11.20 22:39:00 - [23] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Completely agree with the OP. Imagine what kind of response players would give if we nerfed the AR, sniper rifle, or forge gun to 2/3rds its current damage and 1/2 its range? The player base would be up in arms, demanding a respec. The majority of players would say I'm quiting now...waaaaa.... that's what.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1800	Posted - 2013.11.20 22:54:00 - [24] - Quote The people I shot with a swarm launcher would generally just get out of range (if possible). Once in a while I'd "corner" someone and bring them down. I have to say though... that if I'd spent my SP getting into reload, ammo, and specialization I'd be seriously pissed to find the weapon less than half what it used to be. The scope of the change appears to be massive. Just because vehicle users are butthurt about their trials does not mean it's right to crap all over the people who played the game the way it was built... which of course is not exactly an original argument around here.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 139	Posted - 2013.11.20 23:04:00 - [25] - Quote Oh noes i cant solo a tank in an MMO anymore. Time to start getting the feel for an MMO. Try using tactics. Guerilla. I'm sure you could do it with some AV nades, which you guys also carry. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 427	Posted - 2013.11.20 23:41:00 - [26] - Quote <=== I do like my proto swarms... Are they taking proto swarms away or reworking the skill tree for them? Or are they just nerfing them in line with the nerf to vehicles? The first one gets a respec, the second one doesn't. Pretty simple, and CCP, believe it or not, has been very consistent with this kind of thing. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 131	Posted - 2013.11.20 23:49:00 - [27] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Nin Ker wrote: I don't think you should have it refunded. It's a dumb fire weapon that lacks any skill to actually use and yet can wipe out stuff that costs millions of ISK. Sure it will do less damage but that just means you might have to work with some to destroy a vehicle as opposed to standing on a hive and solo'ing it. Stop thinking about this particular weapon, and think about what CCP is actually doing here. Think about what would happen if your weapon of choice were also reduced by 1/2 of its current range, and 1/3rd of its current damage. Do you think that's fair? If they were op, yes, but just the swarm is, so open up and taste the bat GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace


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