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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
233
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Read my post again. In Chromosome, the best tanks and tankers had to worry about mediocre tankers with just a few million SP into them because of how much damage railguns did to tanks.
That. Was. Balanced.
You have an interesting opinion on balance. Balance usually uses a rock, scissor and paper model to avoid unbalanced gameplay. Regarding Vehicles vs Infantry this translates to Tank > Infantry > AV Infantry > Tanks. Thats called balance.
You want Tank > Tank > Everything else. This IS a problem especially in a first person shooter.
And really back in Chromosome most tankers had gone for infantry and easy kills not for other tankers hell I saw tankers hiding in the redline as soon as another tank showed on the map because they were afraid of loosing their tank.
And this behaviour will not change and I highly doubt that you see many tank battles what you will see is tankers going again after infantry and farming kills/installations and maybe a small friction of tankers that enjoy tank battles but I am sure the majority will simply go after infantry for easy success
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
234
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 12:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Read my post again. In Chromosome, the best tanks and tankers had to worry about mediocre tankers with just a few million SP into them because of how much damage railguns did to tanks.
That. Was. Balanced.
You have an interesting opinion on balance. Balance usually uses a rock, scissor and paper model to avoid unbalanced gameplay. Regarding Vehicles vs Infantry this translates to Tank > Infantry > AV Infantry > Tanks. Thats called balance. You want Tank > Tank > Everything else. This IS a problem especially in a first person shooter. And really back in Chromosome most tankers had gone for infantry and easy kills not for other tankers hell I saw tankers hiding in the redline as soon as another tank showed on the map because they were afraid of loosing their tank. And this behaviour will not change and I highly doubt that you see many tank battles what you will see is tankers going again after infantry and farming kills/installations and maybe a small friction of tankers that enjoy tank battles but I am sure the majority will simply go after infantry for easy success I want you to explain to me what's unbalanced about the best of tanks being destroyed in 2-3 railgun shots, as it pertains to infantry. I don't expect a reply to that request for a month. You won't be graded on grammar. Your time starts now.
Well If you refere to a Forge hmm I don't know how the the new forge will play out as it will get a nerf as well. If you refere to Rail installations meh those are crap and usually dont survive the first minutes of any battle and I was only one time able to kill a tank with them because the tanker was stupid or distracted (or both).
And maybe you could give me an answer why we have 3 (or 4 if you count in AV nades as well) AV weapons when only one at best is somewhat usefull.
I believe as well there is an imbalance between Vehicles and AV but the reason for this is we simply have Proto AV vs Basic or Advanced vehicles. The changes in 1.7 don't change this, instead they nerfed Proto AV into oblivion to somehow find a balance beween Proto AV and basic Vehicles this is at best strange.
CCP should just remove Proto AV and try to balance std AV vs Std Vehicles and if thats done we could go ahead and introduce advanced Vehicles and Advanced AV etc.
BTW I know there is a Rail tank but if the Rail tank is the Counter to a Blaster tank whats the Counter to a Railtank? |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
236
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 13:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Chromo tanks could get 60-0 pub after pub after pub. Yeah, totally balanced  BTW, if it takes more than one person to destroy a tank, what do you think happens when there are 7 tanks on the field? better hope you that you have me on the other team  uneven tank battles are what im paid the big bucks for  if theres 7 tanks you simply kill them one at a time??? how is that even a serious question.... and target saturation IS an actual tactic... a rather GOOD tactic. doesnt change the fact that it doesnt matter how many tanks there are... if you face them one at a time its just like fighting a single tank!!!!
This would only be possible if these 7 tankers were stupid enough to line up to get shot down one by one and I don't think there many tankers out there that are that stupid.
If they cover each other they will be unstoppable...even two or three tanks would be unstoppable and there is still Infantry around to support them versus the now crappy AV... |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
236
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 14:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Atiim wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Chromo tanks could get 60-0 pub after pub after pub. Yeah, totally balanced BTW, if it takes more than one person to destroy a tank, what do you think happens when there are 7 tanks on the field? better hope you that you have me on the other team uneven tank battles are what im paid the big bucks for if theres 7 tanks you simply kill them one at a time??? how is that even a serious question.... and target saturation IS an actual tactic... a rather GOOD tactic. doesnt change the fact that it doesnt matter how many tanks there are... if you face them one at a time its just like fighting a single tank!!!! You say this as if all seven tanks will be completely spread out. But what if they are all near each-other? Orbital Strike them? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL all near each other = 3/4 of the map are now free game and you can just ignore the tanks.... they have to spread out to prevent you from just ignoring them, meaning your only going to come across them in groups of 2-3 max. now narrow that down by engament direction and positioning, ensuring only one tank can engage YOU at a time.... then fight em off... its a pain, and most times your just better off ignoring the tanks... since they cant cap objectives and all, but possable, and ocasionally hilarious, although personally the max tanks ive ever had to face in a match was 4, same concept.
My personal record was 5 tanks and the enemy team did not stand a chance it was quite boring. And that is more than enough to cover most maps and you still have 11 Infantrymen to cap or cover your tanks.... |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
236
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 14:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:
My personal record was 5 tanks and the enemy team did not stand a chance it was quite boring. And that is more than enough to cover most maps and you still have 11 Infantrymen to cap or cover your tanks....
most tankers are also above average players, most people trying to kill tanks are below average. *shrug* i play for both sides of this fight, and for me... when im infantry... tanks are underpowered when im a tanker tanks are overpowered.... its a matter of skill more then a matter of balance.
Really? A lot of tankers I have encountered were not very smart and I have only rarely encountered good tankers but those good tankers gave me quite a challenge :) |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
236
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 15:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Read my post again. In Chromosome, the best tanks and tankers had to worry about mediocre tankers with just a few million SP into them because of how much damage railguns did to tanks.
That. Was. Balanced.
You have an interesting opinion on balance. Balance usually uses a rock, scissor and paper model to avoid unbalanced gameplay. Regarding Vehicles vs Infantry this translates to Tank > Infantry > AV Infantry > Tanks. Thats called balance. You want Tank > Tank > Everything else. This IS a problem especially in a first person shooter. And really back in Chromosome most tankers had gone for infantry and easy kills not for other tankers hell I saw tankers hiding in the redline as soon as another tank showed on the map because they were afraid of loosing their tank. And this behaviour will not change and I highly doubt that you see many tank battles what you will see is tankers going again after infantry and farming kills/installations and maybe a small friction of tankers that enjoy tank battles but I am sure the majority will simply go after infantry for easy success Not really. The better tankers in this game pride themselves on killing other tanks because we all want to be "#1 tank". Only noob tankers pride themselves on pub stomping KDR. When I see another tank, it's game on and I only bother with infantry if they're shooting at me. I feel like only new players have a problem with tanks, like snipers. Tanks that go for KDR, look for easy kills. If there are 3 infantry in hard cover that will take 30 seconds to kill or 1 guy in the open, the tank will go for the easy kill.
Here we have different observations, the whole reason I went for AV is to prevent tanks doing exactly what I described.I would hunt tanks for that reason even without WP reward. So if my AV weapon is strong enough to force the tank out of the battlefield I am fine with that.
I know there are tankers that will hunt other tanks as soon as they see them, but as long as there is no tank there is not much to do for a tanker so the majority will hunt Infantry.
Regarding swarms I really don't like them at all but I don't like beeing a heavy as well (in fact I dislike beeing a heavy even more). So I take what CCP gives me to deal with vehicles and sadly the PLC is not a good option for AV ( I had high hopes for the PLC) and what was left ? AV nades an stupid Swarms ;/
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
243
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 14:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:
But in Dust infantry don't want to play this game? Why not? Why don't you want to work together to take down a Tank and shift the tide of battle?
A better question is, why should I have to get a whole entire squad to use tactics and teamwork to bring down something that only takes one person to operate and perform well in? Why should I be required to use teamwork against anyone or anything that doesn't require teamwork? And no "because I paid more" is not a valid argument. If this was a legitimate argument then AUR swarms should OHKO everything and AUR HAVs should be invincible. Not that a majority of tankers don't already want HAVs to be invincible. BECAUSE and I don't understand why you don't get this.... INFANTRY IS STRONG BECAUSE OF TEAM WORK. Why should a solo infantry man be able to destroy a vehicle designed to withstand such fire power. You know as well as I do a single player cannot win a match against 5 other players neither should they be able to in a tactical shooter. 1 tank should not be able to deal with 5 infantry working on it at the same time, nor 3, but 1 or 2 yes. So your saying that I should be able to hop into a tank as 1 person and require 3-6 people to destroy me? I fail to see the balance in having to use 3-6 people to destroy 1 person. And before you say, "well that's how it is in real life", think about it. Should everything perform like it would IRL?
I highly doubt it would take more than one Javelin or RPG to bring down a tank...in real life... |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
244
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 14:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shokhann Echo wrote:Atiim wrote:Shokhann Echo wrote:fact irl is that no American modern tank has ever been destroyed by anything yet. What's your point? my point being if tanks irl get here and things become like irl, tanks will never die in battle
Hmm as far as I know there were several Tanks so badly damaged that they were out of function or needed to be destroyed by own forces.
You also have to consider that mondern tanks rarely face modern AV weapons and normally get heavy air support that destroys any opposing forces.
And according to real Life no battletank can be run solo they usually have a crew of 3 to 4 operators.
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