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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4559
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I've been thinking.
Weapons get 10% increase in damage from STD and PRO.
However, eHP increases MUCH more than 10%.
STD shotgun vs STD targets works extremely well, usually a one hit or two hit kill.
PRO shotgun vs PRO targets? Not nearly as well, sometimes you have to pump 3-4 shots into the person.
I understand why there is little difference between STD and PRO weapons (Making sure the gap between new and old players isn't too big), however I think the shotgun is a special case and should get more damage than 10% from STD to PRO, and more than 5% from STD to ADV.
It heavily relies on surprise attacks and Alpha damage, since even up close it's DPS is horrible, so the higher the level, the worse it becomes.
Thoughts?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1701
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
So you want TTK even lower than it is now? |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1479
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think maybe boosting them up a few dmg per pellet would not be a bad idea.
Not be able to 1-2 shot a medium suit is pretty critical when you have to get within 5 meters. |
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
768
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
i duno should the adv and proto laser get more damage? |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4559
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So you want TTK even lower than it is now?
Uhh...
Shotguns are a special case.
I think TTK should be higher, but shotguns need that one-two hit power to be effective.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4559
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I think maybe boosting them up a few dmg per pellet would not be a bad idea.
Not be able to 1-2 shot a medium suit is pretty critical when you have to get within 5 meters.
This
Mortedeamor wrote:i duno should the adv and proto laser get more damage?
They don't even get 1% damage increase, which is sad.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1479
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So you want TTK even lower than it is now?
Shotguns are meant to kill quickly like 1 or 2 shots quickly. |
Ridire Greine
1
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yes.
ADV just barely kills Basic, and only strips the shields of ADV Caldari suits, tried Proto before and couldn't notice much of a difference (Other than it looked cooler), its why I'd just run around with a Basic, there was really no point in using the higher tier shotguns, the amount of damage they done, was nowhere near a fair trade-off for the amount of PG / CPU they sucked up.
I really want a slight increase in Optimal though.
You're a noob, and so am I!
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1335
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Every weapon should have one attribute that is significantly improved across the tiers.
AR, SMG, HMG should have Accuracy/Kick increases
Flays, Forges, PlaCons, etc should be Splash Damage.
Lasers should be Overheat Reduction
And, yes, shotguns should be DPS as well as Nova Knives, ScrP, and Sniper Rifles.
Cheeseburgers.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4559
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Every weapon should have one attribute that is significantly improved across the tiers.
AR, SMG, HMG should have Accuracy/Kick increases
Flays, Forges, PlaCons, etc should be Splash Damage.
Lasers should be Overheat Reduction
And, yes, shotguns should be DPS as well as Nova Knives, ScrP, and Sniper Rifles.
Forges splash?
No, **** no, they are already too effective against infantry, regardless of level.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
480
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
ive had no problem using the mlt shotgun.
although since the buff to heavies hp its ive been using around 4 shots to kill them.
but my shotgun to face tactic at point blank range still ohks alot of proto.
they only suck at range.
its more of a matter of having your enemy in the center of your reticule.
you will be getter those extremely powerful ohk shots then. |
rpastry
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
65
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
be honest you just want to one/two shot kill anything that hasn't seen you, as hitting something that has stacked enough EHP to have time to react and counter isn't fair.
3 hits from an advanced shotty will down a 1200+hp heavy, thats plenty dps imo. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1701
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Should the shotgun have the ability to knock down players in CQC against light/medium suits?
Last awesome shotgun i used was MAG briefly but it got wrecked, best consistant shotgun i used was MGO where the shotgun in CQC knocked down the enemy onto the floor, outside of CQC is stalled ppl from running and also you could swap to slugs and get headshots with it
Also just say its 2 shots proto light and medium suits, what about the heavy? same number or double it because its a heavy? |
Ridire Greine
1
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
rpastry wrote:be honest you just want to one/two shot kill anything that hasn't seen you, as hitting something that has stacked enough EHP to have time to react and counter isn't fair.
3 hits from an advanced shotty will down a 1200+hp heavy, thats plenty dps imo.
Then if you're going to make it so that it takes 3 hits to down a Heavy, while shooting him in the back, bring back slower turn speeds for the Heavier (Includes Medium) frames.
Making sure no one spots you is harder than it looks, especially since Active Scans tell you if someone prevented the Scan.
You're a noob, and so am I!
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
38
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So you want TTK even lower than it is now? Uhh... Shotguns are a special case. I think TTK should be higher, but shotguns need that one-two hit power to be effective.
No, they don't, because as time to kill goes up for other weapons the shotgun user is more able to get close to their targets or if already close able to deliver more shots on target. Shotguns are fine where they are and as TTK goes up for other weapons they'll continue to be amazing.
When you're not able to instantly drop anyone within 60-70m as gallente logi with stacked damage mods wielding a duvolle in no more than .3 seconds, you'll find that the games overall experience will be much better. |
Thumb Green
Novashift
515
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
No, the proto already does up to around 522 damage each time you pull the trigger and that's not taking into account any of the pellets that hit the head.
Never mind the president, let's overgrow the government.
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pseudosnipre
DUST University
Ivy League
347
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'd rather see a bonus to shots in the back |
MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
38
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:I'd rather see a bonus to shots in the back
I'd actually be in favor of seeing shotguns take a 20-30% damage nerf if it gave them 5m more range so that you don't need to be right on top of someone in order to do anything to them. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2221
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So you want TTK even lower than it is now?
Not generally, but for a weapon that is dedicated to low TTK, yes.
The shotgun is a unique weapon, I'd be happy seeing it's damage staying the same, but the number of pellets increasing through tiers. Like what happens for swarm launchers.
No.
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Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
2522
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
*Puurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*
Level 2 Forum Warrior
Hate Lord
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TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR
F.T.U.
598
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:So, I've been thinking.
Weapons get 10% increase in damage from STD and PRO.
However, eHP increases MUCH more than 10%.
STD shotgun vs STD targets works extremely well, usually a one hit or two hit kill.
PRO shotgun vs PRO targets? Not nearly as well, sometimes you have to pump 3-4 shots into the person.
I understand why there is little difference between STD and PRO weapons (Making sure the gap between new and old players isn't too big), however I think the shotgun is a special case and should get more damage than 10% from STD to PRO, and more than 5% from STD to ADV.
It heavily relies on surprise attacks and Alpha damage, since even up close it's DPS is horrible, so the higher the level, the worse it becomes.
Thoughts?
I think that they are fine tbh, and I use shotguns all the time. put a damage mod on it, and it is rather deadly, especially when you add proficiency...
*tries to flank a group of enemies. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
2893
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd like to see another shotgun variant with less damage but more range. The range is **** on anything other than a Scout suit or a Shield suit.
You can't use them on Gallente Medium suits.....the suits they were actually made for bahahah.
P.S. and yes you can kill with a Gallente suit and shotgun but it sucks ass compared to the scout and shield suits and you'd die a lot less. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1480
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
rpastry wrote:be honest you just want to one/two shot kill anything that hasn't seen you, as hitting something that has stacked enough EHP to have time to react and counter isn't fair.
3 hits from an advanced shotty will down a 1200+hp heavy, thats plenty dps imo.
1200 ehp is a heavys base with skills, and it is still hard to take them down(as it should be, but if I shot anyone at point blank range 4 times with a high powered close range ONLY weapon they should die)
and I can maybe take down a heavy with 3 shots, usually takes 4 sometimes 5. |
Mejt0
Made in Poland...
59
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
They need more dmg or more bullets per shoot (dont know any other word for that, still learning english ).
You can easly kill somone if you start first and can 2-3shoot him, but no. Maps are open, and cal\gal logi can stand and watch you shooting them. They laught at your face and kill you soo fast u will even dont see bulle,you even wont hear it. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1335
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Forges splash?
No, **** no, they are already too effective against infantry, regardless of level.
I don't know where you got the idea that I want more splash from my post.
Anyways, Forges are not OP.
Plasma Cannons are OP.
Forge Gun might kill a dude in a single shot. But, the user suffers from immobility or a movement penalty in a suit that is already slow as ****.
Standard PCs OHK entire squads and they're not restricted to a particular suit.
Cheeseburgers.
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1480
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 17:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Forges splash?
No, **** no, they are already too effective against infantry, regardless of level. I don't know where you got the idea that I want more splash from my post. Anyways, Forges are not OP. Plasma Cannons are OP. Forge Gun might kill a dude in a single shot. But, the user suffers from immobility or a movement penalty in a suit that is already slow as ****. Standard PCs OHK entire squads and they're not restricted to a particular suit.
Best troll post ever. |
Mejt0
Made in Poland...
59
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Forges splash?
No, **** no, they are already too effective against infantry, regardless of level. I don't know where you got the idea that I want more splash from my post. Anyways, Forges are not OP. Plasma Cannons are OP. Forge Gun might kill a dude in a single shot. But, the user suffers from immobility or a movement penalty in a suit that is already slow as ****. Standard PCs OHK entire squads and they're not restricted to a particular suit.
Hahha... hah. [5min later] .. ahh..ha..okay egnouth. PC? I last saw it like few months ago. I can watch PC user projectile and just walk 2steps from it. FG charges at 1sec. 1sec and youre ded. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
1003
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 17:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well you see the thing is the shotguns will pretty much OHK anything, as long as you get 100% of the spread of them!
Now instead of giving the shotgun extra damage with proficiency, it prefers to give a shorter spread, but I think this could be improved further.
Make hipfire wider per level so you are more likely to hit, but less likely to kill
Make ADS a fattass slug shot, where anything above the waist is going to kill pretty much all but a heavy
this will make the shotgun awsome
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2310
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Should advanced and prototype shotguns get more damage?
Low eHP / High Mobility Targets
The Shotgun generally works well when engaging low-eHP MedFrames and Scouts. If the Shotgunner catches his opponent off-guard, he will prevail more often than not. 1-2 blasts-to-kill. This is appropriate.
High eHP / Low Mobility Targets
The Shotgun generally works well when engaging Sentinels, so long as the Shotgunner approaches from behind. The Heavy's general lack of maneuverability works to the flanking Shotgunner's advantage, but the Shotgunner who foolishly attempts to engage an HMG Heavy head-on will be at severe disadvantage. 3-4 blasts to kill. This is appropriate.
High eHP / High Mobility Targets
The Shotgun generally works poorly when engaging high-eHP MedFrames. A tanked MedFrame has little issue backpedaling or bunny-hopping out of SG Optimal range, often thwarting the Shotgunner's surprise attack. Once outside of Optimal Range, the Shotgun's damage drop-off is severe. These targets have unique and disproportionately strong odds versus a Shotgunner in nearly every setting. 3-4 blasts to kill. This is a problem.
As explained above, the shotgun is functioning at disadvantage versus High eHP / High Mobility targets. This could be addressed as follows:
- Increase SG damage.
- Increase SG optimal/effective range.
- Decrease damage drop-off.
- Decrease MedFrame mobility.
- A combination of above.
There's nothing easy about sneaking up behind a target or luring one's opponent into Optimal Range.
My two cents as a dedicated Shotgunner.
- Shotty GoBang
~ 25M SP, Shotgun Proficiency V |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2311
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So you want TTK even lower than it is now?
In this case, the TTK argument falls flat.
TTK1: AR/ScR user detects target, raises aim (sometimes), neutralizes target.
TTK2: Shotgunner detects target, sneaks/stalks/flanks/lures/baits, neutralizes target.
If time-to-kill were measuring from Detection to Neutralization, the Shotgun's would be among the worst in the game.
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