DUST Search - The Logi Rebalance

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

Make repair tools light weapons/equipment so I can choose to fit a repair tool as my weapon, to free up another equipment slot for something else.

Expand on 'utility nades'. Grenades which become 'decoys' that appear on the minimap as enemies when scanned, smoke grenades, repair grenades, grenades that disable movement of all in its vicinity for a set amount of time, sticky grenades.

Give passive bonuses to racial equipment. Where is racial equipment anyway?

Example:
-Minmatar repair tools: triple stream, moderate triage repair
-Gallente: single stream, fast triage repair
-Amarr: dual stream, moderate triage and vehicle repair
Caldari: single stream, fast vehicle repair

-Minmatar nanohives: fast ammunition resupply
-Gallente nanohives: slow ammo resupply, fast armour repair
-Amarr: moderate ammo and armour resupply and repair
-Caldari: moderate ammo resupply, more units active at once

This can be applied to all equipment, and each logistics suit should get fitting bonuses to their respective racial equipment. This means true logibros will select their suit based on the equipment they want to use, not the other way around.

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Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 782	Posted - 2013.11.18 21:57:00 - [1] - Quote Remove the Logi's grenade slot. Discuss. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2354	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:00:00 - [2] - Quote I tried making a legitimate discussion already, but good luck with this. I would be inclined to disagree, simply because it isn't enough to balance things out. Grenade spam is dangerous, but only noobs use it as their first means of attack, so it won't be all that big of a change. Been Logistics since before it was cool.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 782	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:03:00 - [3] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I tried making a legitimate discussion already, but good luck with this. I would be inclined to disagree, simply because it isn't enough to balance things out. Grenade spam is dangerous, but only noobs use it as their first means of attack, so it won't be all that big of a change. I feel that removing the grenade slot on all logistics suits would be very balancing. no longer could they run locus, flux or AV grenades. Breaching with grenades is not an option, grenade + scanner in a squad of logis isn't an option. They gain so much equipment, at the expense of their grenade and side-arm, bringing their slot count closer to the assaults. It becomes a choice, weapons or equipment. Assault suits would have three weapons (light, side and grenade) and 1 equipment, while logis would have 1 weapon and 3-4 equipment. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 866	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:06:00 - [4] - Quote Pretty sure more than 90% of my kills are from my unmodified light weapon slot. My sidearm and grenade kills are about the same and not really that high unless I get grenade happy.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 783	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:10:00 - [5] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: Pretty sure more than 90% of my kills are from my unmodified light weapon slot. My sidearm and grenade kills are about the same and not really that high unless I get grenade happy. That may be the case, this is a use re-balance proposal to get the slot-count closer together for both specialties while allowing each specialty to more express itself. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2209	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:14:00 - [6] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Remove the Logi's grenade slot. Discuss. Quote: I feel that removing the grenade slot on all logistics suits would be very balancing. no longer could they run locus, flux or AV grenades. Breaching with grenades is not an option, grenade + scanner in a squad of logis isn't an option. They gain so much equipment, at the expense of their grenade and side-arm, bringing their slot count closer to the assaults. It becomes a choice, weapons or equipment. Assault suits would have three weapons (light, side and grenade) and 1 equipment, while logis would have 1 weapon and 3-4 equipment. This actually sounds like a good idea. Say bye bye to grenade spam. My only issue is how badly it'd screw my speed hacker if he can't just flux the objective first. No.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 471	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:14:00 - [7] - Quote I don't think that would do much of anything to be honest. It's the first thing I sacrifice anyway, so I think this is an excellent idea. Damn Imperials! Dust 514 belongs to the ARs!
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 783	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:17:00 - [8] - Quote ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: I don't think that would do much of anything to be honest. It's the first thing I sacrifice anyway, so I think this is an excellent idea. It may seem that way now, but then you have to choose the right suit for the occasion rather than one logi-fits-all Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1125	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:17:00 - [9] - Quote ehh I can live with that "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 393	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:17:00 - [10] - Quote I don't see a problem with getting rid of the grenade slot on the logistic suit. It really is the first thing any support logi gives up and would cut back on the grenade spam a bit.

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5237	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:18:00 - [11] - Quote Support. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 29	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:20:00 - [12] - Quote Just a thought, What if logi's had no guns?! Really, think about it. Increase the hi/low slots so the logi becomes a very hard to kill target. This could give the suit incredibly hi ehp, But there is no way a logi can kill anything. This is an extreme, but I think it could be fun. Logi roles would then be literally a support class and you would generally see less of them around. This might even affect equipment spam. But if you have a logi on the field, you know he will be a tough nut to crack and he will be repping. Other players may then group near one and some battle dynamics might be more cohesive team strategy. As a logi player, I like having the gun and equipment. But on the other hand I wouldn't mind an option to run a logi suit like the one above. I would find it very fun. Do you think an op ehp suit with no gun is unbalanced? FAME
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 784	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:20:00 - [13] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Remove the Logi's grenade slot. Discuss. Quote: I feel that removing the grenade slot on all logistics suits would be very balancing. no longer could they run locus, flux or AV grenades. Breaching with grenades is not an option, grenade + scanner in a squad of logis isn't an option. They gain so much equipment, at the expense of their grenade and side-arm, bringing their slot count closer to the assaults. It becomes a choice, weapons or equipment. Assault suits would have three weapons (light, side and grenade) and 1 equipment, while logis would have 1 weapon and 3-4 equipment. This actually sounds like a good idea. Say bye bye to grenade spam. My only issue is how badly it'd screw my speed hacker if he can't just flux the objective first. He could RE the objective first xD Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 784	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:22:00 - [14] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Just a thought, What if logi's had no guns?! Really, think about it. Increase the hi/low slots so the logi becomes a very hard to kill target. This could give home incredibly hi ehp, But there is no way a logi can kill anything. This is an extreme, but I think it could be fun. Logi roles would then be literally a support class and you would generally see less of them around. This might even affect equipment spam. But if you have a logi on the field, you know he will be a tough nut to crack and he will be repping. Other players may then group near one and some battle dynamics might be more cohesive team strategy. As a logi player, I like having the gun and equipment. But on the other hand I wouldn't mind an option to run a logi suit like the one above. I would find it very fun. Do you think an op ehp suit with no gun is unbalanced? 90% of the game is killing, I think it's fair for 25% of a suit's slots to be devoted to it. (1 out of 4 = 1 weapon and 3 equipment or 25% weapon 75% logi-ing for the logi, EDIT: while the assault is 75% weaponry and 25% equipment) Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 831	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:25:00 - [15] - Quote I like this idea. It cuts down on grenade spam, and might just stop people from bitching about logi suits. Two birds with on stone. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 2068	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:26:00 - [16] - Quote Make repair tools light weapons/equipment so I can choose to fit a repair tool as my weapon, to free up another equipment slot for something else. Expand on 'utility nades'. Grenades which become 'decoys' that appear on the minimap as enemies when scanned, smoke grenades, repair grenades, grenades that disable movement of all in its vicinity for a set amount of time, sticky grenades. Give passive bonuses to racial equipment. Where is racial equipment anyway? Example: -Minmatar repair tools: triple stream, moderate triage repair -Gallente: single stream, fast triage repair -Amarr: dual stream, moderate triage and vehicle repair Caldari: single stream, fast vehicle repair -Minmatar nanohives: fast ammunition resupply -Gallente nanohives: slow ammo resupply, fast armour repair -Amarr: moderate ammo and armour resupply and repair -Caldari: moderate ammo resupply, more units active at once This can be applied to all equipment, and each logistics suit should get fitting bonuses to their respective racial equipment. This means true logibros will select their suit based on the equipment they want to use, not the other way around. "When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:29:00 - [17] - Quote message from Godin: Still think that either LB's idea or reducing the damage on the light weapon is better. I know some people (including myself half the time) that doesn't even carry nades, so this wouldn't affect them much.
skippy678 F.T.U. 124	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:36:00 - [18] - Quote Wow I must have missed something? Did anyone from CCP actully say anythng ever about nerfing logis? Nope. just you guys...over....and over...and over again. If i am wrong please feel free to post it here, but Im pretty sure that its just the assult guys...hoping. U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 90	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:38:00 - [19] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I tried making a legitimate discussion already, but good luck with this. I would be inclined to disagree, simply because it isn't enough to balance things out. Grenade spam is dangerous, but only noobs use it as their first means of attack, so it won't be all that big of a change. ONLY NOOBS USE IT? Well,me myself im not much of a grenade user, but i could say its PRETTY common for PROTOBEARS from VERY well known clans, like STB,O.H,A.E....that ALWAYS commence their attack with Cooked Core Locus grenades. Funny thing is, all of them happen to be Logis too....
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 29	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:51:00 - [20] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Make repair tools light weapons/equipment so I can choose to fit a repair tool as my weapon, to free up another equipment slot for something else. Expand on 'utility nades'. Grenades which become 'decoys' that appear on the minimap as enemies when scanned, smoke grenades, repair grenades, grenades that disable movement of all in its vicinity for a set amount of time, sticky grenades. Give passive bonuses to racial equipment. Where is racial equipment anyway? Example: -Minmatar repair tools: triple stream, moderate triage repair -Gallente: single stream, fast triage repair -Amarr: dual stream, moderate triage and vehicle repair Caldari: single stream, fast vehicle repair -Minmatar nanohives: fast ammunition resupply -Gallente nanohives: slow ammo resupply, fast armour repair -Amarr: moderate ammo and armour resupply and repair -Caldari: moderate ammo resupply, more units active at once This can be applied to all equipment, and each logistics suit should get fitting bonuses to their respective racial equipment. This means true logibros will select their suit based on the equipment they want to use, not the other way around. Wow! That all sounds fun and would bring a new life to the dull strafe blastin. Great post. FAME

m twiggz Eternal Beings 156	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:51:00 - [21] - Quote Yes! Remove logistic suit slots! Give them a 10% damage reduction to all weaponry! Force them to use repair tools in their light weapon slot! Take away their light weapon slot and restrict them to only side arms! I see your "nerf logistic suit" QQ and raise you a kleenex. Sleep well, with your tears.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 29	Posted - 2013.11.18 22:57:00 - [22] - Quote Well, maybe more logi players would then have an assault fit too. I am logi, and I also use an assault suit from time to time. If I got more points from being a logi in a situation then I will field it, otherwise I run the assault suit. FAME
SteelheadPep Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 00:54:00 - [23] - Quote Solution #235; logic suits cannot equip damage mods but the Cpu and pg requirements for using them should be increased enough so decisions will have to be made when stacking. This will allow logistic to equip any light weapon (side arm) and would dissuade people from using them as slayers. The damage mod increase would help reduce the abuse of damage mods by making mercs decide whether they want a glass cannon or more survivability on the various other suits.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 789	Posted - 2013.11.19 00:55:00 - [24] - Quote Or just remove the grenade slot. I feel that would nearly perfectly balance the assault and logi variants. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream 494	Posted - 2013.11.19 01:06:00 - [25] - Quote I disagree. I think the light weapon slot should be reduced to a sidearm slot. The logistics is supposed to have tons of equipment, and I think grenades are more of an equipment, because you don't use them as a primary weapon (well you aren't supposed to). But I think just a sidearm is a much better re-balance... Minnie Scout & Logi Greatness achieved through persistance.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 480	Posted - 2013.11.19 01:40:00 - [26] - Quote CCP has the data. I want to know of logi suits are fielded more than assault suits and/or getting more kills. Then maybe we can have a logi Nerf discussion. Until then the whole argument that we even need a Nerf is driven by butt hurt and the fact that some"elites" are using logi slayer suits. nerfing an entire class due to exploiters won't work because they always find something to exploit. See Nyain going from tac AT, flaylock, core locus, to whatever is OP next. Maybe rail riffle?
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 789	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:21:00 - [27] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: CCP has the data. I want to know of logi suits are fielded more than assault suits and/or getting more kills. Then maybe we can have a logi Nerf discussion. Until then the whole argument that we even need a Nerf is driven by butt hurt and the fact that some"elites" are using logi slayer suits. nerfing an entire class due to exploiters won't work because they always find something to exploit. See Nyain going from tac AT, flaylock, core locus, to whatever is OP next. Maybe rail riffle? I'd rather the assault suit be buffed than the logi suit nerfed. The solution here is to bring the carry slots closer together for both suits. Else all of the assault suits should get one additional equipment and the gallente + minmatar proto assaults would have three equipment. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 792	Posted - 2013.11.21 16:42:00 - [28] - Quote My module balance between logi and Assault suits: Assault Gets Three Weapons (Light, side, and grenade) and one Equipment Logi Gets One Weapon (Light) and Three equipment. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4653	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:11:00 - [29] - Quote The real issue with the logi (and everyone, for that matter) is that they're all competing for the role of "slayer". Logi has more slots, therefore can do it better. Here's my thread on the topic. Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.


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