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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
929
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Posted - 2013.11.18 13:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:PADDEHATPIGEN wrote:Respec's will be needed when the new weapons, dropsuits, vecheles and modules come.
Respec's will be needed when the racial bonuses, dropsuit bonuses change/come.
Respec's will be needed when they change some of the modules that that right now are in the wrong slots. DMG mods are now high slot modules, they are supose to be low slot modules, Hacking and speed modules are now low slot modules, they are supose to be high slot modules, etc. etc.
So yes we need to get more respec's.
When ALL this is here and fixed, i NEVER want to se ANYONE get a respec EVER again, but until then we NEED it. No. We all know more suits and gear are coming. We still shouldn't get a respec EVER. If Dust ever hit a point where new gear was not added or stats were not changed it would become stale and then die. Dust is not a short life game like BF or COD. Dust has to evolve and change overtime or else's it won't have a long life. EVE is an awesome game but the only reason it has survived a decade is because it is always changing. You always have to learn new **** and train new things. I own plenty of games that didn't change or evolve and that's why I don't ever play them anymore. I don't want Dust to become another game I don't play and that means Dust Will always have to have changes. People who want to cry about respecs every time something changes can play one of the hundreds of other games that allow you to skill up to the max and never have to change anything ever. Screw that, Dust is hard. Grinding SP is hard. So choosing what to skill into should be a hard decision. Respecs are a crutch and they are bad for the game. Deal with it.
Someone attacks you, and you have the option of buying a weapon for $2 to defend yourself. Then, after you do it, or even as you do it, they tell you that you could've saved the $2 and bought the winning lotto ticket. Was there a choice? However, this is a game, so I'll probably just leave for a few months after 1.7 hits. For someone who WANTS to play this game and actively participate, however, it can be frustrating.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1179
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Posted - 2013.11.18 17:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Haerr wrote:What about when 3 out of the 7 branches in the skill tree is being reworked?
Considering the addition of 2 new Rifles that consume the niches of my 3 favourite rifles, (and the only guns I have the skills to use comfortably without getting stomped) the Burst, Tactical and Laser Rifles, I'd say that 4 of 7 are being reworked in my case. Corporations doesn't count, so it's 4 of 6. However, all of the skill branches could be reworked and we should just "man up" and waste a hundred hours of our lives playing Dust 514 until we keel over to make the millions of wasted SP up. Is this somehow better because EVE was worse? "We aren't putting back your toe when we were supposed to remove your finger. You should just suck it up, man; that guy over there had his whole foot removed. In fact, he's telling YOU to suck it up because, hey, if he suffers, you should too." Yes, constant respecs allows more players to instantly replicate the FotM builds. Other counters need to be created (you know, such as not making the game balance suck) to counter it. Maybe limit your respecs, so that when you get royally screwed over you can respec.
Rule 1 should cover skills as well. Probably should have put it there in black and white, but c'est la vie, to late now.
Also, as for the whole 'you get stomped if you hold back SP' thing, I've had 1.5 million SP banked since 1.4. I still come out ahead in every fight I'm in. So from personal experience, I'd say that that isn't true.
ECM Equipment
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
943
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Posted - 2013.11.18 17:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:Haerr wrote:What about when 3 out of the 7 branches in the skill tree is being reworked?
Considering the addition of 2 new Rifles that consume the niches of my 3 favourite rifles, (and the only guns I have the skills to use comfortably without getting stomped) the Burst, Tactical and Laser Rifles, I'd say that 4 of 7 are being reworked in my case. Corporations doesn't count, so it's 4 of 6. However, all of the skill branches could be reworked and we should just "man up" and waste a hundred hours of our lives playing Dust 514 until we keel over to make the millions of wasted SP up. Is this somehow better because EVE was worse? "We aren't putting back your toe when we were supposed to remove your finger. You should just suck it up, man; that guy over there had his whole foot removed. In fact, he's telling YOU to suck it up because, hey, if he suffers, you should too." Yes, constant respecs allows more players to instantly replicate the FotM builds. Other counters need to be created (you know, such as not making the game balance suck) to counter it. Maybe limit your respecs, so that when you get royally screwed over you can respec. Rule 1 should cover skills as well. Probably should have put it there in black and white, but c'est la vie, to late now. Also, as for the whole 'you get stomped if you hold back SP' thing, I've had 1.5 million SP banked since 1.4. I still come out ahead in every fight I'm in. So from personal experience, I'd say that that isn't true.
As for 1, it has to do with what you consider wastage and how many months on end and hundreds of hours you can take of grinding.
Also, it depends on how much SP you have. I'd been deliberating for a long time what to put my SP into and I didn't really have any guns that worked for my niche. I needed a mid-long range weapon, so I grabbed the Tactical Assault Rifle. I don't have maxed core skills and all maxed modules. I don't have any decent gun at prof 5 I can just fall back on. I don't even care anymore. If my gun is UP, I'll just leave until I get enough passive SP to spec a few levels into proficiency. I'm currently working on my modules and vehicles, but I'll probably end up just hoarding all my SP since I have an OK weapon for 1.7.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Rizlax Yazzax
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
12
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Posted - 2013.11.18 17:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
TBH I read about two lines of your post. From now on I will just copy/paste my respec opinion.
Ah, yet another one. At most a true final respec when all content is released, be that in 2months or a year. Constant respecs will do nothing but encourage FOTM users and destroy all balance as people skew stats and invoke many unneeded nerfs/buffs. Not to mention everyone speccing into new content, finding they don't like it and crying for yet another respec.
Partial respecs for changing skill trees, fine go ahead. I have mis-spent a lot of SP, even after 2 respecs (beta reset being the first) by thinking a skill would benefit me, or it became obsolete as my style changed. I recovered, lived with my mistake and committed to the grind to get what I wanted. My point is I'm not asking for that SP back, those "wasted" points are invested and may become useful again one day.
Live with your choices and at the very least think of those unwanted skills as an investment, banked SP you will get back when/if it happens.
CCP is pretty set in its ways about a consistent universe, a respec probably will happen, but it will be when - and only when - CCP are ready. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1179
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Posted - 2013.11.18 17:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:I only disagree with points 1 and 4.
AR sp should be refunded upon the release of all other rifles, even if the AR's stats were to remain the same. If you want to run a rifle character, you're given the option of wasting SP in order to be competitive up until then, or running inferior gear & not being able to compete whilst SP is saved up. The same goes for suits. We can't realistically expect heavies to go for months without upgrading their suits just so that they won't be wasting SP. It's only fair to dish out a refund of Amarr heavy dropsuit skillpoints upon the release of any other race's equivalent.
On the issue of slight tweaks, I don't think there should be a partial respec unless the functional role of a weapon, suit or gear is changed. For example, the upcoming changes to vehicles will not change tanks from being tanks, and tankers will still be tankers. (The exception beong that many vehicle skills are expected to change).
I understand the reasoning and feel sympathy for them, but if we do it for ARs or Heavies then we have precedent for when other things come out, like Amarr and Minmatar vehicles, Amarr and Caldari Scouts, the Magsec SMG etc. If we do it once, people will just expect it every time, like feeding a stray cat. I'd like to have my points taken out of Amarr Heavy and Amarr Sentinel so I can put them in Minmatar Heavy and Minmatar Sentinel, but it wouldn't be gamebreaking if they didn't. I'd still have the Amarr suit in case they release an Amarr Heavy weapon.
As for the slight tweaks, that's the point. If you grabbed in for the Rail Rifle because it has the highest range, and then they nerf its range to below the Scrambler Rifle, you'd be justified in asking for a respec on those points. The point of the Rail Rifle islong ranged combat, after all. If they just trimmed your DPS by a couple though, that's just being childish.
ECM Equipment
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Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2013.11.18 19:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:PADDEHATPIGEN wrote:Respec's will be needed when the new weapons, dropsuits, vecheles and modules come.
Respec's will be needed when the racial bonuses, dropsuit bonuses change/come.
Respec's will be needed when they change some of the modules that that right now are in the wrong slots. DMG mods are now high slot modules, they are supose to be low slot modules, Hacking and speed modules are now low slot modules, they are supose to be high slot modules, etc. etc.
So yes we need to get more respec's.
When ALL this is here and fixed, i NEVER want to se ANYONE get a respec EVER again, but until then we NEED it. No. We all know more suits and gear are coming. We still shouldn't get a respec EVER. If Dust ever hit a point where new gear was not added or stats were not changed it would become stale and then die. Dust is not a short life game like BF or COD. Dust has to evolve and change overtime or else's it won't have a long life. EVE is an awesome game but the only reason it has survived a decade is because it is always changing. You always have to learn new **** and train new things. I own plenty of games that didn't change or evolve and that's why I don't ever play them anymore. I don't want Dust to become another game I don't play and that means Dust Will always have to have changes. People who want to cry about respecs every time something changes can play one of the hundreds of other games that allow you to skill up to the max and never have to change anything ever. Screw that, Dust is hard. Grinding SP is hard. So choosing what to skill into should be a hard decision. Respecs are a crutch and they are bad for the game. Deal with it.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust
Your attitude isn't working for DUST and you can't exactly argue with these statistics
I'm sure you will still argue because you don't have a real argument against respecs and that hasn't stopped you
My Theme
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CharCharOdell
1558
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Posted - 2013.11.18 19:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I kind of disagree on the weapons/suits part.
Kind of...
If you mean new weapons/suits of the same race, then I can understand why there shouldn't be a respec for that.
However, if you mean new weapons/suits of different races when only one racial weapon previously existed, then I can understand why people support the idea of a respec. But this only brings about one-time respecs which is ok for me as long as it's not a constant feature. Racial symmetry of weapons/suits would be the only reason for me.
For example:
Heavies only have a Minmatar HMG but no Amarr, Caldari, or Gallente variants have been made available yet. Therefore, many heavies were forced into training into the Mimatar HMG. The same thing for the Forge Gun which is a Caldari weapon.
Scouts only have a Minmatar SMG but not Amarr, Caldari, or Gallente variants. The same thing for Nova Knives which only come from the Caldari but no Amarr, Minmatar, or Gallente variants so far.
Vehicles have the same problem. So far, only Gallente and Caldari LAVs, HAVs, and Dropships exist. No Amarr or Minmatar ones yet.
The suits are the same thing. Scouts lack Caldari and Amarr variants. Heavies lack any variant outside the Amarr. No pilot suits. etc.
K age
I agree. Adding new suits is something that deserves a respec BC I Gaurenteed that heavies and scouta would not be in the position they are in if they had other choices. Pairing the amarr heavy with an hmu makes no sense at all.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2204
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Posted - 2013.11.18 20:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I only disagree with points 1 and 4.
AR sp should be refunded upon the release of all other rifles, even if the AR's stats were to remain the same. If you want to run a rifle character, you're given the option of wasting SP in order to be competitive up until then, or running inferior gear & not being able to compete whilst SP is saved up. The same goes for suits. We can't realistically expect heavies to go for months without upgrading their suits just so that they won't be wasting SP. It's only fair to dish out a refund of Amarr heavy dropsuit skillpoints upon the release of any other race's equivalent.
On the issue of slight tweaks, I don't think there should be a partial respec unless the functional role of a weapon, suit or gear is changed. For example, the upcoming changes to vehicles will not change tanks from being tanks, and tankers will still be tankers. (The exception beong that many vehicle skills are expected to change). Rumsfeld: "You go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.
I'm not sure of the significance of that quotation.
No.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1181
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Posted - 2013.11.18 20:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I only disagree with points 1 and 4.
AR sp should be refunded upon the release of all other rifles, even if the AR's stats were to remain the same. If you want to run a rifle character, you're given the option of wasting SP in order to be competitive up until then, or running inferior gear & not being able to compete whilst SP is saved up. The same goes for suits. We can't realistically expect heavies to go for months without upgrading their suits just so that they won't be wasting SP. It's only fair to dish out a refund of Amarr heavy dropsuit skillpoints upon the release of any other race's equivalent.
On the issue of slight tweaks, I don't think there should be a partial respec unless the functional role of a weapon, suit or gear is changed. For example, the upcoming changes to vehicles will not change tanks from being tanks, and tankers will still be tankers. (The exception beong that many vehicle skills are expected to change). Rumsfeld: "You go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time. I'm not sure of the significance of that quotation.
I believe he's saying 'make the best out of what you have. The other guns aren't here yet, but you won't miss anything when they do get here.' Or something to that effect.
ECM Equipment
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