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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
135
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:1) Also, I'd like to throw out some stipulations before I make my own argument. First, Amarr logi's, in this situation, would receive a second sidearm slot.
2) Alright, so let me start with the implications. What would happen if every logi had to run a sidearm at this exact moment from now on? Well, I imagine that most logissaults would come to the forums to cry, and to be fair to them, it is a very drastic change, so a respec might be justified in this situation. (when I say respec, I mean specifically SP taken out of logi dropsuit command skills, and nothing else.)
1) Well, that's not really the same, is it? A sidearm is a sidearm and they are quite clearly not designed to be primary weapons: they are distinctly lacking in range which makes them substandard for anything but emergency or close in firefights, and even then you're still at a disadvantage overall. Having two of them is not a fair trade for Amarrian Logis.
2) Yes, because - as you talk about below - people run things how they want to run things. Running dual sidearms because you choose to is an entirely different thing to running a single sidearm only because you are forced to. Speaking as a Logibro, I could care less about K/DR tryhards, but this suggestions is a terrible idea for many reasons.
Logi Bro wrote:All pure logistics players, on the other hand, would also likely come to the forums to complain that their light weapon skills are now useless to them, so a respec specifically in the light weapons tree would also be justified. The logistics class as a whole would become more vulnerable, but not actually useless, there are people that run dual sidearms despite having a light weapon slot because they WANT to, I imagine logi's will still be able to defend themselves in CQC. Outside of CQC, of course, they would be shooting practice, so logi's that currently run lone-wolf mode(myself included) would be encouraged to stick close to team-mates to keep them safe over long distance combat.
So, you're suggesting that Logistics suits become easy prey at ranges exceeding 20 metres because some people abuse the slot layout for a minor gain? Why are we not buffing up Assault/Heavy/Scout suits again? The issue with Logistics suits is that they 'outshine' all the other classes and it's primarily due to slot layout and ****** role bonuses: why don't we increase the Assaults to having the same number (with relevantly increased CPU/PG) and give them an actually useful (non-Racial) Role Bonus (since the Racial Role Bonuses are generally decent, but even they could do with a tweak.)?
Logi Bro wrote:Overall, it means that logi's can still combat, but not as effectively as assault players.
As for how it would be implemented, I would expect a few buffs to help the logi out with this extreme change. First, the maximum amount of equipment carried should be increased to five, so that Amarr/Caldari would get four slots at the proto tier, and Minmatar/Gallente would get five at proto. Obviously, this is strengthening the logistics role.
Overall, it makes the logistics class more logisctic-y.[/quote]
What it would mean is a Logi is relegated to being a pack mule and a battlefield *****.
The Logistics suit is not meant to be a live target for people to practice their skills on just because they've chosen to actually help the team! Increasing the amount of slots would not make Logistics suits more appealing as a role when you reduce their offensive capabilities to next to naught: they would be brought out to lay down a plethora of equipment then immediately switched away from once their load was dropped.
Logi Bro wrote:Assault suits would become more popular, because a large majority of assault players are currently residing in god-mode logistics suits. Heavy suits would come out of hiding if they thought there was a high chance that they would find a logi bro in most games, and scouts would be pretty much the same. I think removal of the assault suit's equipment slots would be appropriate, to make logistics player more needed on the battlefield, and it would be wise to increase the scout's equipment max to two so that nanohives don't become too rare.
Logistics are not god-mode. They have an advantage over Assaults in the EHP department. It is small, but present. The fix is to rebalance - aka, buff - the Assault suits.
Heavies would lament the dearth of true Logibros, since their little brothers would be essentially worthless in a firefight over 20 metres. Assaults would ***** that there aren't enough nanohives/links because Logistics are so niche. Scouts would love the second equipment slot and you'd likely see Scouts being brought out as precursors to assaults, laying down uplinks and then people would switch to Logistics when areas need thorough seeding with nanohives. Logistics would be so rare during actual combat because they would be nearly useless.
Logi Bro wrote:Overall, I'd say the other classes would be happy not getting outperformed in every way by the logi.
Yes. Which is why buffing them is the answer:
Assaults:
- Increase number of slots (with relevant increase in CPU/PG)
- Increase base stats somewhat to further open the gap and remove the minimal EHP difference that way
- Alter the Role Bonus such that it is significant to the role (this is difficult because of the various styles Assaults fill; likely a damage mod following a widespread damage reduction, eg, 1% damage per level for light weapons, maybe light and sidearm weapons: ammo bonus could work, perhaps increased clip size and/or spare ammunition)
- A shake up of the entire bonus system to operate much more like EVE (ie, bonuses are tied to the dropsuit and based on different skills, rather than being tied directly to the skills themselves.)
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
136
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Repost, so that it doesn't get missed.
Logi Bro wrote:1) Also, I'd like to throw out some stipulations before I make my own argument. First, Amarr logi's, in this situation, would receive a second sidearm slot.
2) Alright, so let me start with the implications. What would happen if every logi had to run a sidearm at this exact moment from now on? Well, I imagine that most logissaults would come to the forums to cry, and to be fair to them, it is a very drastic change, so a respec might be justified in this situation. (when I say respec, I mean specifically SP taken out of logi dropsuit command skills, and nothing else.)
1) Well, that's not really the same, is it? A sidearm is a sidearm and they are quite clearly not designed to be primary weapons: they are distinctly lacking in range which makes them substandard for anything but emergency or close in firefights, and even then you're still at a disadvantage overall. Having two of them is not a fair trade for Amarrian Logis.
2) Yes, because - as you talk about below - people run things how they want to run things. Running dual sidearms because you choose to is an entirely different thing to running a single sidearm only because you are forced to. Speaking as a Logibro, I could care less about K/DR tryhards, but this suggestions is a terrible idea for many reasons.
Logi Bro wrote:All pure logistics players, on the other hand, would also likely come to the forums to complain that their light weapon skills are now useless to them, so a respec specifically in the light weapons tree would also be justified. The logistics class as a whole would become more vulnerable, but not actually useless, there are people that run dual sidearms despite having a light weapon slot because they WANT to, I imagine logi's will still be able to defend themselves in CQC. Outside of CQC, of course, they would be shooting practice, so logi's that currently run lone-wolf mode(myself included) would be encouraged to stick close to team-mates to keep them safe over long distance combat.
So, you're suggesting that Logistics suits become easy prey at ranges exceeding 20 metres because some people abuse the slot layout for a minor gain? Why are we not buffing up Assault/Heavy/Scout suits again? The issue with Logistics suits is that they 'outshine' all the other classes and it's primarily due to slot layout and ****** role bonuses: why don't we increase the Assaults to having the same number (with relevantly increased CPU/PG) and give them an actually useful (non-Racial) Role Bonus (since the Racial Role Bonuses are generally decent, but even they could do with a tweak.)?
Logi Bro wrote:Overall, it means that logi's can still combat, but not as effectively as assault players.
As for how it would be implemented, I would expect a few buffs to help the logi out with this extreme change. First, the maximum amount of equipment carried should be increased to five, so that Amarr/Caldari would get four slots at the proto tier, and Minmatar/Gallente would get five at proto. Obviously, this is strengthening the logistics role.
Overall, it makes the logistics class more logisctic-y.
What it would mean is a Logi is relegated to being a pack mule and a battlefield *****.
The Logistics suit is not meant to be a live target for people to practice their skills on just because they've chosen to actually help the team! Increasing the amount of slots would not make Logistics suits more appealing as a role when you reduce their offensive capabilities to next to naught: they would be brought out to lay down a plethora of equipment then immediately switched away from once their load was dropped.
Logi Bro wrote:Assault suits would become more popular, because a large majority of assault players are currently residing in god-mode logistics suits. Heavy suits would come out of hiding if they thought there was a high chance that they would find a logi bro in most games, and scouts would be pretty much the same. I think removal of the assault suit's equipment slots would be appropriate, to make logistics player more needed on the battlefield, and it would be wise to increase the scout's equipment max to two so that nanohives don't become too rare.
Logistics are not god-mode. They have an advantage over Assaults in the EHP department. It is small, but present. The fix is to rebalance - aka, buff - the Assault suits.
Heavies would lament the dearth of true Logibros, since their little brothers would be essentially worthless in a firefight over 20 metres. Assaults would ***** that there aren't enough nanohives/links because Logistics are so niche. Scouts would love the second equipment slot and you'd likely see Scouts being brought out as precursors to assaults, laying down uplinks and then people would switch to Logistics when areas need thorough seeding with nanohives. Logistics would be so rare during actual combat because they would be nearly useless.
Logi Bro wrote:Overall, I'd say the other classes would be happy not getting outperformed in every way by the logi.
Yes. Which is why buffing them is the answer:
Assaults:
- Increase number of slots (with relevant increase in CPU/PG)
- Increase base stats somewhat to further open the gap and remove the minimal EHP difference that way
- Alter the Role Bonus such that it is significant to the role (this is difficult because of the various styles Assaults fill; likely a damage mod following a widespread damage reduction, eg, 1% damage per level for light weapons, maybe light and sidearm weapons: ammo bonus could work, perhaps increased clip size and/or spare ammunition)
- A shake up of the entire bonus system to operate much more like EVE (ie, bonuses are tied to the dropsuit and based on different skills, rather than being tied directly to the skills themselves.)
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