DUST Search - Its the players fault???

Vrain Matari wrote:

noob cavman wrote:

You can pub stomp in standard gear though What?

Passive skills help.

noob cavman wrote:

In fact dust atm is more new player friendly than ever with even militia ar being able to splatter a proto suit with little problem .

+2 noob cavman. Both points are solid and a big part of the heart of this argument. I personally think CCP has done a pretty good job with the balancing.

Assert Dominance, you're a very strong player and would dominate pubs even in militia gear. As would many others. And you are right, ultimately CCP is responsible for game design and taking steps to ensure a good NPE.

But it is also true that we are each responsible for our actions. Even on the internet, even in a videogame.

My personal answer to this situation is advanced gear only, which is a still-huge advantage over newberries when worn by a vet. If you restrict yourself to pulling out proto only when there's a squad or two of PC fullproto asshats on the other side smooshing your noobs into pulp, then you'll still have many opportunities to go proto - With the understanding that you use it to take on the rabid, slavering monsters on the other side, ofc.

But far more interesting is the speculation that CCP actually wants it this way(hey, a merc can dream!).

Let's forget the hatemail from fragile-ego'd enemies that have fallen to damage amped Duvolles. Lets focus on the hatemail that comes from people who genuinely care for the game. We've all lived through stompings in this game and we're still here, still playing and presumably still enjoying the game. We also know that there are some peeps who take the beatings, stick around and get stronger. So why are people freaking about protogeared pubstomps?

I think the only reason anybody cares is because of the low player numbers and the perception that DUST is in jeopardy. But i'm speculating that maybe things are not as bad as we think, so here's a theory: This protostomping in pubs is actually ok with the people who make decisions at CCP. This is not to say they are 100% comfortable with this and are no doubt keeping a close eye on the issue, but it would be consistent with the attitude of the creators of New Eden.

First, let's look at player numbers: on the server graphs you can see that player activity was at an all-time low when 1.5 was released. If we look now and pick out Oct 5 we see that it sits at the bottom of a very shallow bowl. Player numbers are slooowly climbing. Given the incomplete/buggy state of the game, the current lack of content and the reviews this is actually a bit surprising. And it is climbing at a time when vets are leaving(or say that they are leaving ;). It's rising in the face of COD, KZ, BF4, PS4. Who'da thunk it?

So if player numbers are rising despite pubstomps and all that competition, why should CCP worry about some butthurt hatemail? I know i wouldn't. This game was always supposed to be hard. Presumably when we've got all the basic content in place the retention numbers will be better. Six months of that kind of growth and we'll have good numbers and a working matchmaker.

Second, every vet here knows standard and even militia gear is viable in pubs. Well, believe it or not, CCP knows this too. And CCP knows that the qq is coming from players who's expectations of what an FPS is were formed by the mass-market games we have today. It's like that great article about Red Orchestra/COD that Cosgar keeps on linking(Don't stop, bro!). So why would CCP change the game to cater to a segment that cannot be satisfied?

There's actually a couple of more points to this argument, but it's already too wall-of-textish, so enuf. And apologies.

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Assert Dominance Ahrendee's Wafflehouse 460	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:02:00 - [1] - Quote Ive gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. I eat blue waffles when i proto stomp.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 349	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:11:00 - [2] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Ive gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. I beat children for personal pleasure and it's the police's fault for not stopping me. Not that I care, but your argument seems flawed. You may want to rethink that.
JL3Eleven 1226	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:12:00 - [3] - Quote Being good, rich, or experienced is frowned upon in Dust Eden. Dust 514 started from the bottom now we here.
Acturus Galaxy Happy Pumpkin 176	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:16:00 - [4] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Ive gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. The problem is being a scout as I have experienced the last few weeks playing it exclusively is, we are preying on lonely vulnerable targets hanging back which most often is new players. I sometimes feel very bad doing this, odd that I feel bad about shooting others in a FPS game. I sometimes sacrifices myself multiple times if my team are doing the proto stomping. I engage a red dot and when he is almost unable to hit me even when I am standing still I know it is someone new to FPS games. I just take a few shots above their heads, stand still and let him shoot me. And seeing the kill report showing 1/11 makes me feel good, hoping this dude will not rage quit yet
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 179	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:28:00 - [5] - Quote there is a saying in EVE "if you cant afford to lose it. don't fly it" and thats the big problem in DUST. all the whiners are the guys who may have proto skills but cant afford to run it in pub matches and so they get sour towards those who can. I run quite a lot of proto in pub matches for two reasons. one. i can afford to. two. i'm nt that great a fps gamer so i feel i need the edge it gives. admittedly i am getting better and when i'm running alts i'm finding i'm keeping up a good kdr in advanced gear if i'm with a good squad so it balances out. what irks me are when you have two full squads of full proto gear from the 'big' pc corps. its obvious they don't all need to be using it and they're just out to grief players
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 636	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:33:00 - [6] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: there is a saying in EVE "if you cant afford to lose it. don't fly it" and thats the big problem in DUST. all the whiners are the guys who may have proto skills but cant afford to run it in pub matches and so they get sour towards those who can. I run quite a lot of proto in pub matches for two reasons. one. i can afford to. two. i'm nt that great a fps gamer so i feel i need the edge it gives. admittedly i am getting better and when i'm running alts i'm finding i'm keeping up a good kdr in advanced gear if i'm with a good squad so it balances out. what irks me are when you have two full squads of full proto gear from the 'big' pc corps. its obvious they don't all need to be using it and they're just out to grief players Thats not it at all, you see, I whine all the time about people proto stomping, I have over 100 million isk, I have 4 prototype weapons to choose from. I just dont think its right to use proto in pubs because it hurts the player retention and I dont want the game dying. Scout, Tanker, Dropship Pilot, AV'r Alts - Medrean Delt / Moselder Telend (Pure Innocence) / Mledean Delt (Capsuleer)
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 121	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:33:00 - [7] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Ive gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. Dude I run advanced crap in pubs and get the same mail. Normally I will run my toxin and kill 10 to 20 dudes then get some high ground kill a few with my massdriver and get mails about how im a noob because I use a MD and cant shoot lol. You can decimate ppl with an AR but you kill one with a MD and get mail.
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 135	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:50:00 - [8] - Quote So blame the mail system.If it wasn't there you would never get butthurt Ms.
IceStormers Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 75	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:59:00 - [9] - Quote i do partly agree with both sides if i have been playing long enough to use proto and can afford proto then great i should be able to stomp on the lower skill point / inexperienced players but there should also be a good reason for us to not stomp on the new players other than to be nice, an FPS game is not the place to be nice, its kill or lose isk if you see me on the field im not going to hand you my gun then kneel down for you (i might look like it but i promise im not trying to) CCP need to introduce ways to get the higher end players away from pub games and to get groups of players away from pub games, in EvE they use concord to protect new players from the high end pilots, they use system security and profit to get the higher tier players to move away from the centre to the outside regions the same will happen in Dust i hope, the upcoming change to FW may help with this it needs to be at a place when protostomping in pubs is either costing you isk or not really gaining you anything right now to stomp as hard as poss in a pub game is the best way to reach SP cap as you will earn more for being that much higher than the rest of your team and plenty of SP to go with it but i do agree until CCP do fix it (they know they need to improve new player experience, in an fps thats not being destroyed in most games) its upto the playerbase to not kill the game i can use proto but never do, i also avoid pub games at all costs, squads should be in FW not put games there are plenty of people who have made suggestions on how to handle this, mine is out there somewhere and i prefer the ones which are manual matchmaking based on system security, just like EvE I Support SP Rollover
Assert Dominance Ahrendee's Wafflehouse 460	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:13:00 - [10] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: Ivreal lifee gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. I beat children for personal pleasure and it's the police's fault for not stopping me. Not that I care, but your argument seems flawed. You may want to rethink that. real life... Video game... Your arguement is more flawed then mine. Troll better. I eat blue waffles when i proto stomp.

Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1780	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:16:00 - [11] - Quote IceStormers wrote: CCP need to introduce ways to get the higher end players away from pub games and to get groups of players away from pub games, in EvE they use concord to protect new players from the high end pilots, they use system security and profit to get the higher tier players to move away from the centre to the outside regions the same will happen in Dust i hope, the upcoming change to FW may help with this it needs to be at a place when protostomping in pubs is either costing you isk or not really gaining you anything Yeah, I think some method of "self-segregation" would be good. Just to switch things up (from other ideas on this) you could charge ISK to participate in higher reward games. Perhaps not per game but per week via a market based temporary registration/license fee. Lower level players may have trouble earning enough ISK to buy their way into "factional" for example but still get in once in a while if they save up. This doesn't end pubstomping but it might give the better players a place to earn enhanced rewards outside of PC. Personally, I'm concerned that matchmaking may be a complex problem as squads don't always imply good players, especially considering that people can change fits and styles leading to discrepancies in experience, equipment and apparent skill on a fit by bit basis.
Acturus Galaxy Happy Pumpkin 178	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:20:00 - [12] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: Ivreal lifee gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. I beat children for personal pleasure and it's the police's fault for not stopping me. Not that I care, but your argument seems flawed. You may want to rethink that. real life... Video game... Your arguement is more flawed then mine. Troll better. It is not that far off, some find enjoyment of getting easy wins, other prefer the challenges. Like you have some playing on die hard modes in every game while other google immortal hack codes the same second they receive a new game. A matter of personal taste, difficult to cater both of them. For the moment only the die hard players will prevail during the first harsh months in Dust, it would be nice if we could retain and have room for the more easy going players instead of chasing them away. I still wonder how some find fun in pub stomping, ending OMS ambush matches with something like 75-0 clones, and do this repeatable. We will just have to acknowledge that different player opinions on what is fun exist in Dust, the tricky part is to give room for both playstyles without alienating any of them. For the moment we need more players, not chasing them away.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 351	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:22:00 - [13] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: real life... Video game... Your arguement is more flawed then mine. Troll better. "We're on the internet so ethics don't apply." You really need to improve on that logic-thing you're trying to get going here.
noob cavman A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 170	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:23:00 - [14] - Quote You can pub stomp in standard gear though Passive skills help.
noob cavman A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 170	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:25:00 - [15] - Quote In fact dust atm is more new player friendly than ever with even militia ar being able to splatter a proto suit with little problem
Acturus Galaxy Happy Pumpkin 178	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:41:00 - [16] - Quote The next week will be hard on new players with the upcoming event. I will run proto weapons to get my hands on some of the quafe scout suits but will try and stay in FW. I am guess more will do the same, it will probable end up costing allot of isk.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 810	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:49:00 - [17] - Quote Acturus Galaxy wrote: The next week will be hard on new players with the upcoming event. I will run proto weapons to get my hands on some of the quafe scout suits but will try and stay in FW. I am guess more will do the same, it will probable end up costing allot of isk. Yeah, it's going to be brutal for those that aren't prepared or experienced against proto users. I'll get twenty kills with one o fmy getups and that'll be it for me. I can afford to lose my suits a hundred times over, though that's the excuse people use for protostomping the new bloods. Personally, I find it weak to use prototype gear against anything other than prototype. Coincidentally, this event will cause prototype to pop out of the cracks, so this hibernating protobear is going to get up and maul some faces. **** yeah. "I am a mercenary, I do as I need. I'll shed Amarrian blood for the freedom of my Minmitar allies but only for a price."
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 298	Posted - 2013.11.17 13:56:00 - [18] - Quote CCP will NOT fix anything, it takes too long for them to even acknowledge the problem. They have failed all new players and have crushed player retention. It's terribly sad that you ask the players to refrain to allow new players a chance. NPE sucks in this game, I mean honestly it's probably the worst. They have no where to go to actually you know...learn the game. Conversely Proto players have no where to go so they just jump into random pubs to you know...play.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1247	Posted - 2013.11.17 14:48:00 - [19] - Quote noob cavman wrote: You can pub stomp in standard gear though Passive skills help. noob cavman wrote: In fact dust atm is more new player friendly than ever with even militia ar being able to splatter a proto suit with little problem . +2 noob cavman. Both points are solid and a big part of the heart of this argument. I personally think CCP has done a pretty good job with the balancing. Assert Dominance, you're a very strong player and would dominate pubs even in militia gear. As would many others. And you are right, ultimately CCP is responsible for game design and taking steps to ensure a good NPE. But it is also true that we are each responsible for our actions. Even on the internet, even in a videogame. My personal answer to this situation is advanced gear only, which is a still-huge advantage over newberries when worn by a vet. If you restrict yourself to pulling out proto only when there's a squad or two of PC fullproto asshats on the other side smooshing your noobs into pulp, then you'll still have many opportunities to go proto - With the understanding that you use it to take on the rabid, slavering monsters on the other side, ofc. But far more interesting is the speculation that CCP actually wants it this way(hey, a merc can dream!). Let's forget the hatemail from fragile-ego'd enemies that have fallen to damage amped Duvolles. Lets focus on the hatemail that comes from people who genuinely care for the game. We've all lived through stompings in this game and we're still here, still playing and presumably still enjoying the game. We also know that there are some peeps who take the beatings, stick around and get stronger. So why are people freaking about protogeared pubstomps? I think the only reason anybody cares is because of the low player numbers and the perception that DUST is in jeopardy. But i'm speculating that maybe things are not as bad as we think, so here's a theory: This protostomping in pubs is actually ok with the people who make decisions at CCP. This is not to say they are 100% comfortable with this and are no doubt keeping a close eye on the issue, but it would be consistent with the attitude of the creators of New Eden. First, let's look at player numbers: on the server graphs you can see that player activity was at an all-time low when 1.5 was released. If we look now and pick out Oct 5 we see that it sits at the bottom of a very shallow bowl. Player numbers are slooowly climbing. Given the incomplete/buggy state of the game, the current lack of content and the reviews this is actually a bit surprising. And it is climbing at a time when vets are leaving(or say that they are leaving ;). It's rising in the face of COD, KZ, BF4, PS4. Who'da thunk it? So if player numbers are rising despite pubstomps and all that competition, why should CCP worry about some butthurt hatemail? I know i wouldn't. This game was always supposed to be hard. Presumably when we've got all the basic content in place the retention numbers will be better. Six months of that kind of growth and we'll have good numbers and a working matchmaker. Second, every vet here knows standard and even militia gear is viable in pubs. Well, believe it or not, CCP knows this too. And CCP knows that the qq is coming from players who's expectations of what an FPS is were formed by the mass-market games we have today. It's like that great article about Red Orchestra/COD that Cosgar keeps on linking(Don't stop, bro!). So why would CCP change the game to cater to a segment that cannot be satisfied? There's actually a couple of more points to this argument, but it's already too wall-of-textish, so enuf. And apologies. I support SP rollover.
Acturus Galaxy Happy Pumpkin 181	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:18:00 - [20] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: noob cavman wrote: You can pub stomp in standard gear though Passive skills help. noob cavman wrote: In fact dust atm is more new player friendly than ever with even militia ar being able to splatter a proto suit with little problem . +2 noob cavman. Both points are solid and a big part of the heart of this argument. I personally think CCP has done a pretty good job with the balancing. Assert Dominance, you're a very strong player and would dominate pubs even in militia gear. As would many others. And you are right, ultimately CCP is responsible for game design and taking steps to ensure a good NPE. But it is also true that we are each responsible for our actions. Even on the internet, even in a videogame. My personal answer to this situation is advanced gear only, which is a still-huge advantage over newberries when worn by a vet. If you restrict yourself to pulling out proto only when there's a squad or two of PC fullproto asshats on the other side smooshing your noobs into pulp, then you'll still have many opportunities to go proto - With the understanding that you use it to take on the rabid, slavering monsters on the other side, ofc. But far more interesting is the speculation that CCP actually wants it this way(hey, a merc can dream!). Let's forget the hatemail from fragile-ego'd enemies that have fallen to damage amped Duvolles. Lets focus on the hatemail that comes from people who genuinely care for the game. We've all lived through stompings in this game and we're still here, still playing and presumably still enjoying the game. We also know that there are some peeps who take the beatings, stick around and get stronger. So why are people freaking about protogeared pubstomps? I think the only reason anybody cares is because of the low player numbers and the perception that DUST is in jeopardy. But i'm speculating that maybe things are not as bad as we think, so here's a theory: This protostomping in pubs is actually ok with the people who make decisions at CCP. This is not to say they are 100% comfortable with this and are no doubt keeping a close eye on the issue, but it would be consistent with the attitude of the creators of New Eden. First, let's look at player numbers: on the server graphs you can see that player activity was at an all-time low when 1.5 was released. If we look now and pick out Oct 5 we see that it sits at the bottom of a very shallow bowl. Player numbers are slooowly climbing. Given the incomplete/buggy state of the game, the current lack of content and the reviews this is actually a bit surprising. And it is climbing at a time when vets are leaving(or say that they are leaving ;). It's rising in the face of COD, KZ, BF4, PS4. Who'da thunk it? So if player numbers are rising despite pubstomps and all that competition, why should CCP worry about some butthurt hatemail? I know i wouldn't. This game was always supposed to be hard. Presumably when we've got all the basic content in place the retention numbers will be better. Six months of that kind of growth and we'll have good numbers and a working matchmaker. Second, every vet here knows standard and even militia gear is viable in pubs. Well, believe it or not, CCP knows this too. And CCP knows that the qq is coming from players who's expectations of what an FPS is were formed by the mass-market games we have today. It's like that great article about Red Orchestra/COD that Cosgar keeps on linking(Don't stop, bro!). So why would CCP change the game to cater to a segment that cannot be satisfied? There's actually a couple of more points to this argument, but it's already too wall-of-textish, so enuf. And apologies. Well said, that is exactly my concern, that the small player count eventually will end Dust. I love the balance/imbalance and the sense of despair and rage that a game have on me. Other games are boring compared to this game, also the same reason I initially was drawn towards EVE. I just hope we soon have enough numbers to avoid being ported to the other region servers, the lagging is the biggest challenge.

ELITE INQUISITOR Eternal Beings 16	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:35:00 - [21] - Quote I have no problem with proto in fw. But proto in public matches? I think that shouldn't happen. When I see proto in pub matches I go out of my way to kill them with my advanced scout and shotgun. If you accept your limitations you go beyond them
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1104	Posted - 2013.11.17 16:40:00 - [22] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: Ivreal lifee gotten over 5 peopl sending me butthurt messages over this past week saying people like me are ruining dust. So because i do really well and use good gear im ruining the game? I usually dont say this but htfu ffs. I run a scout which is even funnier and get for smacking around players that arent very experienced. How and why is that my problem? Blame ccp for removing corporate contracts and not having a solo playlist or proper matchmaking, not players who just want to play legitimately and are good. I beat children for personal pleasure and it's the police's fault for not stopping me. Not that I care, but your argument seems flawed. You may want to rethink that. real life... Video game... Your arguement is more flawed then mine. Troll better. It is called an analogy dumbass. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1359	Posted - 2013.11.17 17:54:00 - [23] - Quote If people don't abuse poorly balanced mechanics CCP won't have the data they need to really fix the game. Stomp away while you can, and if people whine at you about at it tell them you're doing it for the good of the game :p


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