DUST Search - This game isnt P2W? (With numbers)

Syeven Reed wrote:

Because I think it is. First off I would like to explain a little about the fits I run.

I am an assault AR user (this is not a post about AR's, please lets no sidetrack) I run a free toxin and a free sub-machine-gun (militia grade).
On a good day running with my corp I can go an average of 20/4 and this tends to give me 180k ISK per battle. But it costs me 25k per suit.

Quote:

Now a little math:

25*4(suits) = 100k
180-100 = 80k PROFIT
Which is great for me! Made a good amount!

But with the loss of BPO's from the market and the packs, this looks different for a new player.
Lets say we add a standard GEK and a sub-machine-gun. That makes the suit cost around 20k more, we at now at 45k total for each suit.

Quote:

The math now:

45*4(suits) = 180k
180-180 = 0 PROFIT
Not so good for the new player, they just broke even.

Now this is all assuming the new player starts off good, with skill! Lets assume that a player go's 20/10

Quote:

45*10(suits) = 450k
450-180 = -270k LOSS
And lets not forget thet if a player hits numbers like that and get a position thats lower on the table he stands to make less than the 180k i posted above! I would estimate around 70k.

You can see that its hard for any player to make money in this game unless they constantly run starter fits. Which pretty much defeats the concept of skilling into better gear, and that's what this games about!

And take note that I haven't even touched on proto gear or TANKS!

So CCP why do you advertise your game as, "DUST 514 is not a pay-to-win game."? When you can clearly see that to get anywhere in this game you need to either own a planet or pay AUR

What are you going to do about it? Its going to affect new player retention, and old players when they run out of ISK.

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Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 164	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote Because I think it is. First off I would like to explain a little about the fits I run. I am an assault AR user (this is not a post about AR's, please lets no sidetrack) I run a free toxin and a free sub-machine-gun (militia grade). On a good day running with my corp I can go an average of 20/4 and this tends to give me 180k ISK per battle. But it costs me 25k per suit. Quote: Now a little math: 254(suits) = 100k 180-100 = 80k PROFIT Which is great for me! Made a good amount!* But with the loss of BPO's from the market and the packs, this looks different for a new player. Lets say we add a standard GEK and a sub-machine-gun. That makes the suit cost around 20k more, we at now at 45k total for each suit. Quote: The math now: 454(suits) = 180k 180-180 = 0 PROFIT Not so good for the new player, they just broke even.* Now this is all assuming the new player starts off good, with skill! Lets assume that a player go's 20/10 Quote: 4510(suits) = 450k 450-180 = -270k LOSS And lets not forget thet if a player hits numbers like that and get a position thats lower on the table he stands to make less than the 180k i posted above! I would estimate around 70k.* You can see that its hard for any player to make money in this game unless they constantly run starter fits. Which pretty much defeats the concept of skilling into better gear, and that's what this games about! And take note that I haven't even touched on proto gear or TANKS! So CCP why do you advertise your game as, "DUST 514 is not a pay-to-win game."? When you can clearly see that to get anywhere in this game you need to either own a planet or pay AUR What are you going to do about it? Its going to affect new player retention, and old players when they run out of ISK. Gÿé Syeven 514
R F Gyro Clones 4u 607	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:25:00 - [2] - Quote Just grind in free starter suits to make money for proper battles. Dust is "pay to avoid the grind". RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 340	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:26:00 - [3] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Because I think it is. First off I would like to explain a little about the fits I run. I am an assault AR user (this is not a post about AR's, please lets no sidetrack) I run a free toxin and a free sub-machine-gun (militia grade). On a good day running with my corp I can go an average of 20/4 and this tends to give me 180k ISK per battle. But it costs me 25k per suit. Quote: Now a little math: 254(suits) = 100k 180-100 = 80k PROFIT Which is great for me! Made a good amount!* But with the loss of BPO's from the market and the packs, this looks different for a new player. Lets say we add a standard GEK and a sub-machine-gun. That makes the suit cost around 20k more, we at now at 45k total for each suit. Quote: The math now: 454(suits) = 180k 180-180 = 0 PROFIT Not so good for the new player, they just broke even.* Now this is all assuming the new player starts off good, with skill! Lets assume that a player go's 20/10 Quote: 4510(suits) = 450k 450-180 = -270k LOSS And lets not forget thet if a player hits numbers like that and get a position thats lower on the table he stands to make less than the 180k i posted above! I would estimate around 70k.* You can see that its hard for any player to make money in this game unless they constantly run starter fits. Which pretty much defeats the concept of skilling into better gear, and that's what this games about! And take note that I haven't even touched on proto gear or TANKS! So CCP why do you advertise your game as, "DUST 514 is not a pay-to-win game."? When you can clearly see that to get anywhere in this game you need to either own a planet or pay AUR What are you going to do about it? Its going to affect new player retention, and old players when they run out of ISK. Good job comparing your profit running with BPO standard to a newb upgrading to an ADV weapon. I break even running ADV suits and equipment without using my BPOs. It's fine. Besides, pay to win = paying for an advantage that CANNOT be obtained in any other way. Pay to grind slightly less ISK = just fine by me.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10265	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:26:00 - [4] - Quote Soon. Oh so very soon. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 104	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:27:00 - [5] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Just grind in free starter suits to make money for proper battles. Dust is "pay to avoid the grind". +1 Like attached. Well said.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1241	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:28:00 - [6] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: But with the loss of BPO's from the market and the packs, this looks different for a new player. Lets say we add a standard GEK and a sub-machine-gun. That makes the suit cost around 20k more, we at now at 45k total for each suit. GEK is not a BPO AR. An AR and SMG costs 2175 ISK all together. /thread ZionTCD Director PRO Amarr Sentinel \| ADV Amarr Logi \| ADV Minmatar Scout What is a signature?
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 164	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:28:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soon. Oh so very soon. tm? Or can you elaborate? o.0 Gÿé Syeven 514
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 443	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:30:00 - [8] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soon. Oh so very soon. tm? Or can you elaborate? o.0 please elaborate ... A DUST BRASIL S.A precisa de você ! Junte-se a nós ! Hey CCP, give me PvE!
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 164	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:30:00 - [9] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: But with the loss of BPO's from the market and the packs, this looks different for a new player. Lets say we add a standard GEK and a sub-machine-gun. That makes the suit cost around 20k more, we at now at 45k total for each suit. GEK is not a BPO AR. An AR and SMG costs 2175 ISK all together. /thread Ahh i see it, i meant to type "advanced", i was assuming most players would like to upgrade :/ thanks for pointing it out Gÿé Syeven 514
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 164	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:33:00 - [10] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Just grind in free starter suits to make money for proper battles. Dust is "pay to avoid the grind". But is that not a huge integral part of the game? The grind? Gÿé Syeven 514

THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1243	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:37:00 - [11] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Ahh i see it, i meant to type "advanced", i was assuming most players would like to upgrade :/ thanks for pointing it out It's much smarter to upgrade your skills instead while investing in damage mods. As broken as they are a standard assault rifle with one complex damage mod will do 37.4 damage a round(Same as a Duvolle AR) without any proficiency while only costing 7095 ISK for both and I can easily fit it on any advanced suit. ZionTCD Director PRO Amarr Sentinel \| ADV Amarr Logi \| ADV Minmatar Scout What is a signature?
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 53	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:40:00 - [12] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: ... Which pretty much defeats the concept of skilling into better gear, and that's what this games about! Um nope, it's not about just that. You see there's also this storyline that goes with it too. But the real point to skilling up is that it doesn't just give you access to better gear, but it also increases the capabilities you have WITH that gear. Read the descriptions of the skills, those bonuses apply per level to every type of gear in that category. So a skilled up player with the same newb gear that a non-geared up player has is still better.
Ripley Riley Pheonix Corp Selectus Infinitus Unitas 19	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:42:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soon. Oh so very soon. I dearly hope you are inferring that the player market will balance this out... and not that my BPOs will somehow much, much less valuable.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10269	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:42:00 - [14] - Quote Necandi Brasil wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soon. Oh so very soon. tm? Or can you elaborate? o.0 please elaborate ... I wished I could but I got enough laser pointers on me already. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 620	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:51:00 - [15] - Quote write the cost of each suit in the name IE AAA scout - 120 AAA redline - 135 AA scout - 30 AA sniper - 25 B free scout Exile - 0 then don't exceed a set amount per match for you if you average 180k set your price at 150k. for me I make 180 - 210 (after tax) and I bet I'll make the lower limit so I start running bpos at 160-175 (in case you're wondering the number of 'A's denotes the class of the suit A - std, AA - ADV ect.) "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 165	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:52:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Necandi Brasil wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soon. Oh so very soon. tm? Or can you elaborate? o.0 please elaborate ... I wished I could but I got enough laser pointers on me already. OK, but if Dust is anything like EvE I have an inkling into what you may mean... But I wont say. This way I can say I was right whatever happens! Gÿé Syeven 514
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 171	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:52:00 - [17] - Quote So, speculation time... they removed BPOs and now the new players are having a hard time making ends meet. They just can't pay the battle bills, so maybe they'll seek space-man sponsorship? There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 165	Posted - 2013.11.15 19:54:00 - [18] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: write the cost of each suit in the name IE AAA scout - 120 AAA redline - 135 AA scout - 30 AA sniper - 25 B free scout Exile - 0 then don't exceed a set amount per match for you if you average 180k set your price at 150k. for me I make 180 - 210 (after tax) and I bet I'll make the lower limit so I start running bpos at 160-175 (in case you're wondering the number of 'A's denotes the class of the suit A - std, AA - ADV ect.) Ahh Iv seen this before its a great way to keep track of your earnings, good for anyone trying to save isk! + 1like Gÿé Syeven 514
R F Gyro Clones 4u 614	Posted - 2013.11.15 20:12:00 - [19] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Just grind in free starter suits to make money for proper battles. Dust is "pay to avoid the grind". But is that not a huge integral part of the game? The grind? People are generally more committed to a game if they feel they have something invested in it. That investment can be time (grinding) or money (Aurum), it doesn't really matter. Choose the one that works best for you. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1309	Posted - 2013.11.15 20:15:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Soon. Oh so very soon. I suspect you mean either P2P Market and/or removal of Boosters or addition of ISK purchasable Boosters? Since CCP's revenue streams (for this game) have narrowed already, I'm going guess its not the removal of Aurum Boosters. So, P2P in 1.7 or 1.8? Cheeseburgers.



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