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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
494
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Over all the TTK on any suit is incredibly fast. Heavies have a thread asking for more health but I think this is not just limited to one suit type but rather to all of them. Most of us understand what a twitch shooter is, and this certainly qualifies, lets add a bit more HP for everyone and reduce the TTK.
I would recommend that 20-30% over all buff of all shield and armor stats be made to increase suit life. This could be done by making shield extenders and armor plates add a percentage of armor rather than the flat values currently being used. It could also be done by increasing the suit's base attributes by 20-30%. I would think that doing both may be too much but it would certainly add some flexibility to our current battles and add a bit of life to all the players, allowing them to possibly survive spawn camps or hacks long enough to turn around after the first 1-2 bullets.
Please troll me with good ideas about this yes/no or an alternative. 
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1516
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Over all the TTK on any suit is incredibly fast. Heavies have a thread asking for more health but I think this is not just limited to one suit type but rather to all of them. Most of us understand what a twitch shooter is, and this certainly qualifies, lets add a bit more HP for everyone and reduce the TTK. I would recommend that 20-30% over all buff of all shield and armor stats be made to increase suit life. This could be done by making shield extenders and armor plates add a percentage of armor rather than the flat values currently being used. It could also be done by increasing the suit's base attributes by 20-30%. I would think that doing both may be too much but it would certainly add some flexibility to our current battles and add a bit of life to all the players, allowing them to possibly survive spawn camps or hacks long enough to turn around after the first 1-2 bullets. Please troll me with good ideas about this yes/no or an alternative.
I would appreciate that.
But, lets start at 10% and see if that does anything,
For the State!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
494
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:
I would appreciate that.
But, lets start at 10% and see if that does anything,
On which? The modules or the suits? What is 10% of 300 total start hp for a suit? 30Hp, so less than one round from a militia AR. Thats not starting anything, it is effectively an Enhanced Shield Extender, which in my opinion are not worth using atm. This buff needs to have some weight to help everyone out, not just heavies.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1516
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Over all the TTK on any suit is incredibly fast. Heavies have a thread asking for more health but I think this is not just limited to one suit type but rather to all of them. Most of us understand what a twitch shooter is, and this certainly qualifies, lets add a bit more HP for everyone and reduce the TTK. I would recommend that 20-30% over all buff of all shield and armor stats be made to increase suit life. This could be done by making shield extenders and armor plates add a percentage of armor rather than the flat values currently being used. It could also be done by increasing the suit's base attributes by 20-30%. I would think that doing both may be too much but it would certainly add some flexibility to our current battles and add a bit of life to all the players, allowing them to possibly survive spawn camps or hacks long enough to turn around after the first 1-2 bullets. Please troll me with good ideas about this yes/no or an alternative. I would appreciate that. But, lets start at 10% and see if that does anything, On which? The modules or the suits? What is 10% of 300 total start hp for a suit? 30Hp, so less than one round from a militia AR. Thats not starting anything, it is effectively an Enhanced Shield Extender, which in my opinion are not worth using atm. This buff needs to have some weight to help everyone out, not just heavies.
Then why did we HAVE to buff everything 10% back in 1.1?
I would prefer 10% removed from weapons, but its all determinant on what seems best.
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:
Then why did we HAVE to buff everything 10% back in 1.1?
I would prefer 10% removed from weapons, but its all determinant on what seems best.
Hit detection sucked in 1.1 and for some reason we have kept that 10% even though there seemed to be a plan in place to remove it after fixing the issue. Issue fixed, now for the consequences. Have you looked at just how much damage weapons do? Over all it was an issue in 1.0 because applied DPS was not as constant. 425DPS from an AR is enough to take any suit with less HP than 425 down in one second. Now we have the issue that almost all bullets will hit, and cause a massively high attrition rate in matches. Last night I played a match that honestly took more time to load than the match took to play start to finish (50 clone Ambush). While I agree removing that 10% weapon buff may be a valid option I feel that the weapons will still most likely scythe through any crowd of players with similar ease even without the damage buff.
The 20-30% overall buffer to HP would give mercs some time to react to changing situations in the battle, giving them some small amount of time to respond before getting destroyed. The problem that faulty Hit Detection caused during the betas is that while we were balancing suit HP and some other gameplay issues, it made the numbers unrealistic when the Hit Detection was fixed.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
588
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Hit detection sucked in 1.1 and for some reason we have kept that 10% even though there seemed to be a plan in place to remove it after fixing the issue.
The 10% bonus was because the old Weaponry skill bonus was removed, not because of hit detection.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah I seem to recall something about that but the 10% was at each level of the skill right?
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
588
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Yeah I seem to recall something about that but the 10% was at each level of the skill right?
2% per level.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
So now that that is sorted I still think we need an armor and shield buff of some sort, with the Weaponry skill at LV5 now given us by CCP (10% damage Buff) and good Hit Detection making previously good fits now obsolete, it only makes sense. Thanks for reminding me about that skill, I had forgotten about it.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
826
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
No to percentage based HP modules.
Because they would have to be balanced in order for not to be OP, they would have to be balanced by the terms of high HP suits (mostly heavies).
That would mean the same modules would be extremely weak to any lighter suits.
If heavies really need better effect from plates/extenders, then rather introduce XL modules or something (fittable only to heavier frames or very high PG/CPU |
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1518
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Posted - 2013.11.13 22:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Hit detection sucked in 1.1 and for some reason we have kept that 10% even though there seemed to be a plan in place to remove it after fixing the issue. The 10% bonus was because the old Weaponry skill bonus was removed, not because of hit detection.
Yup.
Let's just remove it anyways however, myself, I liked 1.0's TTK anyway.
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.13 23:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:No to percentage based HP modules.
Because they would have to be balanced in order for not to be OP, they would have to be balanced by the terms of high HP suits (mostly heavies).
That would mean the same modules would be extremely weak to any lighter suits.
If heavies really need better effect from plates/extenders, then rather introduce XL modules or something (fittable only to heavier frames or very high PG/CPU
It is not just heavies though that are having issues but everyone else too. There needs to be a change that would allow for more hp without being overmuch. Can you add a suggestion that would work? Or would you rather just an increase in overall suit HP?
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
206
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Posted - 2013.11.13 23:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rather than buffing HP I would prefer a nerf to damage (specifically ARs but you can probably find another thread for that discussion....). |
Cosgar
ParagonX
7740
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Posted - 2013.11.14 00:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Hit detection sucked in 1.1 and for some reason we have kept that 10% even though there seemed to be a plan in place to remove it after fixing the issue. The 10% bonus was because the old Weaponry skill bonus was removed, not because of hit detection.
It was actually an emergency hot fix because aiming/hit detection was so bad, ambushes would end on time. They took away passive skills like weaponry and sharpshooter to make the game more player skill > SP skill. If it were to bring back the old weaponry skill, why is weaponry still blank?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.14 00:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
The TTK with an AR is longer than the TTK with a Forge Gun, so why specifically is that the issue? In relation to most of the other weapons in terms of damage dealt the AR is still neither the heaviest hitter nor is it the most long range or even the most rapidly firing weapon. AR damage needs no fix.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7741
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:The TTK with an AR is longer than the TTK with a Forge Gun, so why specifically is that the issue? In relation to most of the other weapons in terms of damage dealt the AR is still neither the heaviest hitter nor is it the most long range or even the most rapidly firing weapon. AR damage needs no fix.
The forge gun still has to be charged, so the AR's TTK is actually shorter.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:The TTK with an AR is longer than the TTK with a Forge Gun, so why specifically is that the issue? In relation to most of the other weapons in terms of damage dealt the AR is still neither the heaviest hitter nor is it the most long range or even the most rapidly firing weapon. AR damage needs no fix. The forge gun still has to be charged, so the AR's TTK is actually shorter.
I go from the first round fired. The NT-511 is actually shortest TTK when you look at no charge time and a Headshot. Assault forge guns are charged and fired at the same time, when the first round hits you are guaranteed to die. Assault SCR also could arguably be said to kill faster and have more damage than an AR as well Cosgar. Overall it is a matter of every weapon (with the exception of the MD, even then it is possible with headshots) being around 1 second or under to kill someone. This is my reasoning behind needing bigger buffers for everyone.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7747
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Cosgar wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:The TTK with an AR is longer than the TTK with a Forge Gun, so why specifically is that the issue? In relation to most of the other weapons in terms of damage dealt the AR is still neither the heaviest hitter nor is it the most long range or even the most rapidly firing weapon. AR damage needs no fix. The forge gun still has to be charged, so the AR's TTK is actually shorter. I go from the first round fired. The NT-511 is actually shortest TTK when you look at no charge time and a Headshot. Assault forge guns are charged and fired at the same time, when the first round hits you are guaranteed to die. Assault SCR also could arguably be said to kill faster and have more damage than an AR as well Cosgar. Overall it is a matter of every weapon (with the exception of the MD, even then it is possible with headshots) being around 1 second or under to kill someone. This is my reasoning behind needing bigger buffers for everyone.
I agree that TTK needs to be adjusted, but you need to sell your argument honestly. Non hitscan weapons do have a significantly longer TTK due to charge and travel time.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
495
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Cosgar wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:The TTK with an AR is longer than the TTK with a Forge Gun, so why specifically is that the issue? In relation to most of the other weapons in terms of damage dealt the AR is still neither the heaviest hitter nor is it the most long range or even the most rapidly firing weapon. AR damage needs no fix. The forge gun still has to be charged, so the AR's TTK is actually shorter. I go from the first round fired. The NT-511 is actually shortest TTK when you look at no charge time and a Headshot. Assault forge guns are charged and fired at the same time, when the first round hits you are guaranteed to die. Assault SCR also could arguably be said to kill faster and have more damage than an AR as well Cosgar. Overall it is a matter of every weapon (with the exception of the MD, even then it is possible with headshots) being around 1 second or under to kill someone. This is my reasoning behind needing bigger buffers for everyone. I agree that TTK needs to be adjusted, but you need to sell your argument honestly. Non hitscan weapons do have a significantly longer TTK due to charge and travel time.
What I am saying is that this is not tied specifically to one weapon or weapon type but rather all of them. It doesn't matter how much time it takes to charge a weapon or the explosion radius of a grenade being more lethal because it is bigger. It is tied to the fact that our dropsuits, no matter the type or tank are like a screen door on a submarine while under water.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
516
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Posted - 2013.11.19 14:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
+10% isn't a lot but it would lengthen TTK significantly, please devs give us a bit more HP (MAX HP attained still dropping like a fly).
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2013.11.19 15:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
What if they give a slight boost to the over all HP's of all suits and slightly lower the damage rates of all weapons besides the Mass Drivers ( I find it silly that I can CQC kill myself with a mass before I can kill my opponent , anyone else ever suicide themselves while trying to kill someone that was in their immediate area while the opponent took on NO damage ??? ) but like I said before that they wont change anything because they like faster games and the way the system is set up is all for that .
" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
480
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Posted - 2013.11.19 16:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
i still dont see the twitch shooter part...
as ive been shot at with my back turned plenty of times and still lived.
its only short for those who stand still.. or run out in the open acting like they are invincible.
the gameplay feels to be alot more based on using cover effectively.
if this game was like cod. or even remotely close to cod. i wouldnt be able to get anywhere in my mlt suit with out dieing.
i can make effective use of cover and set up defensive positions.
the only bad areas to be is out in the open away from any sort of cover.
its the only effective way ive been able to survive in the fire fights for so long.
the ttk is still alot longer than cod.
if it wasnt my kdr wouldnt be over 2.
it would be under .5 if it was like cod.
the only games ive been having a problem in are pubstomps.
giving more ttk to the players only gives proto an even bigger advantage than they have now.
which is one of the reasons im against this. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
149
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Posted - 2013.11.19 18:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'd start with removing the 10% damage buff from all weapons. Perhaps give assault a 2% damage buff to light weapons, or perhaps even a buff specifically to their racial rifle, per level, in keeping with their role as damage dealers. From their, dial in the damage per bullet til things are pretty balanced. |
Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
521
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Posted - 2013.11.20 14:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I'd start with removing the 10% damage buff from all weapons. Perhaps give assault a 2% damage buff to light weapons, or perhaps even a buff specifically to their racial rifle, per level, in keeping with their role as damage dealers. From their, dial in the damage per bullet til things are pretty balanced.
Most assaults have already got plenty of damage potential without a buff after a nerf. I suggested the HP buff to everyone because it is an overall issue with all classes that are already running dual tank buffer suits. The other modules have become an afterthought, only if there is an empty slot that a plate or shield extender doesn't fit in.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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