DUST Search - Let's get rid of the Militia Nanite Injector .

ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

also rewarding wp based on the tool used is just a bad idea. should players get more wp for using proto weapons. no so i don't think it is anyway fair for a needle user to have to

They already do:
Proto weapons kill betterererer.
Proto suits survive more.
Proto hives give more ammo (thus more WP.)
Proto dampeners/amplifiers/precision enhancers hide/detect better.

Prototype things do reward you more, though not everything does equally. Proto Needles give you 60 WP for picking someone up, yet the reviver gets no benefit for having invested that extra ISK/SP into the far superior needle. Obviously, true Logibros don't mind immensely, but when WPs are still the (terrible) focus of a lot of battles (ie, Orbitals and end of match rewards) then a reduced output for using better equipment is bad.

all i have to say about this is a needle, any needle saves you a suit and the team a clone. the more advanced it is just means you have to do less after you get them up. you put yourself at risk to save someone a suit and clone. that is why its valuable. reduce the wp and you will find that most people will stop using them completely. you seem to forget to take into account the needle is only usefull for one thing and creates great risk for anyone who uses it to try and save your clone so incorporating it into a fit is difficult over the more widely needed equipment.

i use a militia needle and i would say about 98% survive and receive full heals. if wp was reduced i would seriously consider never using a needle. risk vs reward. i put myself in the line of fire to save you and if i get little in return i just wont do it. when you go down in your expensive suit i wont even consider getting you up. that is how it would go if you got what you wanted.

" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .

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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.11.12 16:56:00 - [1] - Quote I think that this is just a tool to get cheap and easy points , half the time someone uses this thing , your coming back into a scene that would be most troublesome , seeing ... that's how you died in the first place and when you come back , either you have someone standing over you or the firefight is still raging , with the enemy advancing , so most of the time the person using these items are unskilled and also unskilled in knowing when and how to use the injector and bring the person back at the best time ( if at all ) where it would help them to survive and be a viable asset ( they will be at low health in the fist place ) to the situation and for themselves . Do what makes the most since using your brain . Stop bringing people back into situations that will not allow them to help you and stop trying to skim some quick skill points , while causing the person that you injected to die ( sometimes twice ) and loosing twice the materials and twice the money . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
Ku Shala Exiled Veteran Elite 652	Posted - 2013.11.12 17:11:00 - [2] - Quote you dont lose your suit when you get the stick only after you bleed out.... does however give the othe team extra wp and ruins kdr First General of Exiled Veteran Elite Loyalty Is not always rewarded Serving Caldari State
Wombat in combat TeamPlayers 143	Posted - 2013.11.12 17:43:00 - [3] - Quote The militia nanite injector, or any injector for that matter is not the problem. The problem is war points are being awarded right after you inject. In my opinion you should only get war points after your patient has survived at least X seconds (10 or something) after s/he was injected. Also there should be an option to decline a revive, especially if you yourself know you will never make it out of there. Somewhat related and I've touched on this before, you should be awarded war points depending on what needle you use. Currently you are awarded the most by using the worst needle and repair the rest with a repair tool. Ideally I feel you should be awarded 60 WP + the war points you would have got if you had used a repair tool. I think would encourage usage of advanced and prototype injectors.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 94	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:15:00 - [4] - Quote What are the two issues people have with bad revives: War Points: - The random person picking you up gets war points for essentially nothing. Especially with militia/starter suits or the blueprints, there is next to no downside, meaning that people can happily run around stabbing people with no effective repercussions. - The enemy is liable to get another 50+ WP for killing you again as well as potentially killing your 'saviour' thus netting them an orbital faster and giving them a better slice of their respective pie. So the issue with War Points is that there's not any real measure of how effective that revive was, it's just a flat bonus regardless of the circumstances. People have previously suggested bonus' that reward the reviver based upon how long the saved merc survives for, or rewarding players for using better levels of needles, such that low-end needles are only used because they are the only accessible gear. Kill/Death Ratio: - People don't like dying because it makes them 'worse.' This is more of a problem with perception: K/DR means very little. Winning a game does not necessarily rely on destroying the ever-living **** out of your opponent but it can. The current statistics and mindset of gamers is that Kills > Everything Else. I don't know why, but that's especially dumb in team-focused games. So one of the simplest solutions is to downgrade the visibility of the K/DR: do we really need to see it in bright green and red at the end of the battle? Edit: Wombat, you mind reading bastard :D
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 351	Posted - 2013.11.12 18:27:00 - [5] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I think that this is just a tool to get cheap and easy points , half the time someone uses this thing , your coming back into a scene that would be most troublesome , seeing ... that's how you died in the first place and when you come back , either you have someone standing over you or the firefight is still raging , with the enemy advancing , so most of the time the person using these items are unskilled and also unskilled in knowing when and how to use the injector and bring the person back at the best time ( if at all ) where it would help them to survive and be a viable asset ( they will be at low health in the fist place ) to the situation and for themselves . Do what makes the most since using your brain . Stop bringing people back into situations that will not allow them to help you and stop trying to skim some quick skill points , while causing the person that you injected to die ( sometimes twice ) and loosing twice the materials and twice the money . Medic starter fit says NO!!!! *Assassination is my thing.*
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 482	Posted - 2013.11.12 21:39:00 - [6] - Quote no.. i fit a militia needle so i can fit a proto repair tool without having to sacrifice all my survivability. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 482	Posted - 2013.11.12 21:49:00 - [7] - Quote Wombat in combat wrote: The militia nanite injector, or any injector for that matter is not the problem. The problem is war points are being awarded right after you inject. In my opinion you should only get war points after your patient has survived at least X seconds (10 or something) after s/he was injected. Also there should be an option to decline a revive, especially if you yourself know you will never make it out of there. Somewhat related and I've touched on this before, you should be awarded war points depending on what needle you use. Currently you are awarded the most by using the worst needle and repair the rest with a repair tool. Ideally I feel you should be awarded 60 WP + the war points you would have got if you had used a repair tool. I think would encourage usage of advanced and prototype injectors. and what about the retards who get picked up out of combat and run off before they are repped or those that get up and just stand there doing nothing long enough for the enemy to kill them anyway or when you die getting them up and they also die. needle wp is rewarded for attempting to bring you back into the game. repair tool wp is rewarded for keeping the player in the game logis shouldn't have to rely on blueberrys who got themselves killed in the first place staying alive to give you points. also rewarding wp based on the tool used is just a bad idea. should players get more wp for using proto weapons. no so i don't think it is anyway fair for a needle user to have to Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 383	Posted - 2013.11.12 21:55:00 - [8] - Quote I like militia needlers since there are some fits where I only carry a repper, and having someone else needle a guy means I can rep them for points while not having to stick my own neck out to revive them. What we should really do is get rid of stupid needle jabbers who jab even when they KNOW that the person they revive will die right after.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 101	Posted - 2013.11.12 22:12:00 - [9] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: also rewarding wp based on the tool used is just a bad idea. should players get more wp for using proto weapons. no so i don't think it is anyway fair for a needle user to have to They already do: Proto weapons kill betterererer. Proto suits survive more. Proto hives give more ammo (thus more WP.) Proto dampeners/amplifiers/precision enhancers hide/detect better. Prototype things do reward you more, though not everything does equally. Proto Needles give you 60 WP for picking someone up, yet the reviver gets no benefit for having invested that extra ISK/SP into the far superior needle. Obviously, true Logibros don't mind immensely, but when WPs are still the (terrible) focus of a lot of battles (ie, Orbitals and end of match rewards) then a reduced output for using better equipment is bad.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.11.12 23:41:00 - [10] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I like militia needlers since there are some fits where I only carry a repper, and having someone else needle a guy means I can rep them for points while not having to stick my own neck out to revive them. What we should really do is get rid of stupid needle jabbers who jab even when they KNOW that the person they revive will die right after. I love all the feedback . Sana Rayya summed it up though . That's what I was trying to do is , get the temperature of the people in the room on this topic and I see that all or most of us basically agree . And thanks for the correction for mentioning that you don't get charged twice ( I couldn't remember but I'm just tired of these things and careless people ) , so thanks to you Ku Shala . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.11.12 23:44:00 - [11] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: also rewarding wp based on the tool used is just a bad idea. should players get more wp for using proto weapons. no so i don't think it is anyway fair for a needle user to have to They already do: Proto weapons kill betterererer. Proto suits survive more. Proto hives give more ammo (thus more WP.) Proto dampeners/amplifiers/precision enhancers hide/detect better. Prototype things do reward you more, though not everything does equally. Proto Needles give you 60 WP for picking someone up, yet the reviver gets no benefit for having invested that extra ISK/SP into the far superior needle. Obviously, true Logibros don't mind immensely, but when WPs are still the (terrible) focus of a lot of battles (ie, Orbitals and end of match rewards) then a reduced output for using better equipment is bad. " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 272	Posted - 2013.11.13 00:17:00 - [12] - Quote Wombat in combat wrote: The militia nanite injector, or any injector for that matter is not the problem. The problem is war points are being awarded right after you inject. In my opinion you should only get war points after your patient has survived at least X seconds (10 or something) after s/he was injected. Also there should be an option to decline a revive, especially if you yourself know you will never make it out of there. I wish they would add the damn shield bubble, then I could actually protect all the revivees. Right now you get a choice: drive the enemy back (taking time & hoping some random red doesn't peak around at the worst time) or trying to use your body to cover the fallen which means you have an extra 0.5 secs until I'm down. But you can't blame people for using the militia nanite injector, you get more points for the revive+ heal over a nicer injector. And with the dumb SP event revolving solely around WP you know people are going to take advantage.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 482	Posted - 2013.11.13 00:39:00 - [13] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: also rewarding wp based on the tool used is just a bad idea. should players get more wp for using proto weapons. no so i don't think it is anyway fair for a needle user to have to They already do: Proto weapons kill betterererer. Proto suits survive more. Proto hives give more ammo (thus more WP.) Proto dampeners/amplifiers/precision enhancers hide/detect better. Prototype things do reward you more, though not everything does equally. Proto Needles give you 60 WP for picking someone up, yet the reviver gets no benefit for having invested that extra ISK/SP into the far superior needle. Obviously, true Logibros don't mind immensely, but when WPs are still the (terrible) focus of a lot of battles (ie, Orbitals and end of match rewards) then a reduced output for using better equipment is bad. all i have to say about this is a needle, any needle saves you a suit and the team a clone. the more advanced it is just means you have to do less after you get them up. you put yourself at risk to save someone a suit and clone. that is why its valuable. reduce the wp and you will find that most people will stop using them completely. you seem to forget to take into account the needle is only usefull for one thing and creates great risk for anyone who uses it to try and save your clone so incorporating it into a fit is difficult over the more widely needed equipment. i use a militia needle and i would say about 98% survive and receive full heals. if wp was reduced i would seriously consider never using a needle. risk vs reward. i put myself in the line of fire to save you and if i get little in return i just wont do it. when you go down in your expensive suit i wont even consider getting you up. that is how it would go if you got what you wanted. Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 72	Posted - 2013.11.13 00:49:00 - [14] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: also rewarding wp based on the tool used is just a bad idea. should players get more wp for using proto weapons. no so i don't think it is anyway fair for a needle user to have to They already do: Proto weapons kill betterererer. Proto suits survive more. Proto hives give more ammo (thus more WP.) Proto dampeners/amplifiers/precision enhancers hide/detect better. Prototype things do reward you more, though not everything does equally. Proto Needles give you 60 WP for picking someone up, yet the reviver gets no benefit for having invested that extra ISK/SP into the far superior needle. Obviously, true Logibros don't mind immensely, but when WPs are still the (terrible) focus of a lot of battles (ie, Orbitals and end of match rewards) then a reduced output for using better equipment is bad. all i have to say about this is a needle, any needle saves you a suit and the team a clone. the more advanced it is just means you have to do less after you get them up. you put yourself at risk to save someone a suit and clone. that is why its valuable. reduce the wp and you will find that most people will stop using them completely. you seem to forget to take into account the needle is only usefull for one thing and creates great risk for anyone who uses it to try and save your clone so incorporating it into a fit is difficult over the more widely needed equipment. i use a militia needle and i would say about 98% survive and receive full heals. if wp was reduced i would seriously consider never using a needle. risk vs reward. i put myself in the line of fire to save you and if i get little in return i just wont do it. when you go down in your expensive suit i wont even consider getting you up. that is how it would go if you got what you wanted. I don't mean to imply that I believe that they are worthless ... NO by all means that's not the case , but when you have " pointhawks " running out and about , it makes it hard to be something that's appreciated . Those who use them should just pick the proper time to use such a tool . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1503	Posted - 2013.11.13 00:56:00 - [15] - Quote Now we are treing to nerf militia gear? Lol. There are "Pointhawks" in every game, and the only way to stop them would be to inconvienence real medics, via a QTEesque happening. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Talos Vagheitan 196	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:15:00 - [16] - Quote Fear not, for I have the answer. Please see this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1488496#post1488496 Who cares what some sniper has to say
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 585	Posted - 2013.11.13 05:36:00 - [17] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: losing twice the materials and twice the money. Wrong. The only thing you lose from being revived under fire is your patience. Well, except for your KDR, but who cares about that, anyway? Humanity is the personification of change.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 74	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:43:00 - [18] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: losing twice the materials and twice the money. Wrong. The only thing you lose from being revived under fire is your patience. Well, except for your KDR, but who cares about that, anyway? I thanked Ku Shala earlier for the correction . I couldn't remember or not if I had to refill my gear and materials or not . Most of the time this happens , it's two or three times in the same match , so by the time the match is over needless to say I'm very upset . Why bring someone back into an area and time that does more harm than good ??? I know your kidding about the KDR rate . When I first started , that was all I had going for me because even though I had a good rate , my team use to loose most of the time . Now I have nothing to look forward to . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 74	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:48:00 - [19] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Fear not, for I have the answer. Please see this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1488496#post1488496 Sounds like you do . I had to give you a like for that one . But then I looked to see who said this and I was like .... " I really don't care about what HE had to say . " " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .


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