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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1292
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Posted - 2013.11.09 12:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
What if there was a stacking penalty for modules like armor plates and shield extenders?
This means that heavy suits with more ehp would have a significant advantage over medium suits in terms of ehp (no more 1000+ ehp logistics). This would also increase the advantage of suits with higher base ehp.
This also means that logistics would be valued for their VERSATALITY. More module slots = more TYPES of modules you can fit on a suit, as stacking more than two of one type of module would be very ineffective. The main difference between Assaults and Logistics being that Assaults already have the ehp and speed without modules...whereas a logi has to take up high/low slots with armor/shield/speed modules in order to be on even ground with the assaults (in terms of combat effectiveness that is).
Essentially, you can still be an effecive killer as a logi, but having 5 low slots instead of 3 isn't going to let you stack more armor than an assault could. It also isn't going to give you the ehp of a heavy.
OR
What about a very heavy penalty for running more than one module? For instance, each plate slowing down the user even more than the last one...or each extender making the shield recharge/delay longer.
This option makes it so that the effectiveness of the module isn't reduced, but using more than 2 modules actually has some sort of downside. So if you really want to have more ehp than a heavy as a medium suit go right ahead...but you also BECOME A HEAVY with your slow movement speed and long shield delay. _______________________________________
IMPORTANT PART:
If this was to happen, there would need to be some sort of drastic change to damage...maybe somewhere in the range of 20-30% of what it is now
OR
We reduce the Assault Rifle's effectiveness (NOT damage) at range by actually giving the gun recoil/dispersion while ADS and reduce damage across the board by at least 10-20% to account for the lower ehp values.
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Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1583
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Posted - 2013.11.09 12:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community.
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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Scheherazade VII
97
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Posted - 2013.11.09 12:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:What if there was a stacking penalty for modules like armor plates and shield extenders?
This means that heavy suits with more ehp would have a significant advantage over medium suits in terms of ehp (no more 1000+ ehp logistics). This would also increase the advantage of suits with higher base ehp.
This also means that logistics would be valued for their VERSATALITY. More module slots = more TYPES of modules you can fit on a suit, as stacking more than two of one type of module would be very ineffective. The main difference between Assaults and Logistics being that Assaults already have the ehp and speed without modules...whereas a logi has to take up high/low slots with armor/shield/speed modules in order to be on even ground with the assaults (in terms of combat effectiveness that is).
Essentially, you can still be an effecive killer as a logi, but having 5 low slots instead of 3 isn't going to let you stack more armor than an assault could. It also isn't going to give you the ehp of a heavy.
OR
What about a very heavy penalty for running more than one module? For instance, each plate slowing down the user even more than the last one...or each extender making the shield recharge/delay longer.
This option makes it so that the effectiveness of the module isn't reduced, but using more than 2 modules actually has some sort of downside. So if you really want to have more ehp than a heavy as a medium suit go right ahead...but you also BECOME A HEAVY with your slow movement speed and long shield delay. _______________________________________
IMPORTANT PART:
If this was to happen, there would need to be some sort of drastic change to damage...maybe somewhere in the range of 20-30% of what it is now
OR
We reduce the Assault Rifle's effectiveness (NOT damage) at range by actually giving the gun recoil/dispersion while ADS and reduce damage across the board by at least 10-20% to account for the lower ehp values.
so what you're saying is... let's effectively make the time to kill WORSE than it already is.
GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
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Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
687
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Posted - 2013.11.09 12:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
if i take my adv logi..and i take my adv assault.....with the exact same weapons
1 standard ar md or laser rifle 2 standard -adv smg 3 standard to adv nades
assault a-1 series adv suit
1x complex shield ext 1x complex light dmg mod 1 enhanced reactive plate 1 enhanced armor repper 289shield 259 armor 5 hps armor repp rate (max skills) 6.92 sprint
now adv amarian logi
same weapons
1 normally run 3 dmg mods 2 light 1 sidearm or 2 side arm 1 light depending..at 1 shield extender i am at 217 shield so the assault suits base shield
it is not possible to have shield tank and armor tank on that suit and run logi gear because shield extenders take to much pg..dmg mods are more cpu based so you can run complex cpu to account for them
amarian logi is a high dps..armor regen tanker that means it is a low hp tier suit my deadliest amar logi has only 500 armor and base shields. and if you try and drop you logi gear and tank it youll find it is only more effective hp tanked/regen dmg tanked when the user has 0 gun game
plain and simple when you try and fitt a suit beyond how it is meant to be fit for example armor plates on a cal logi you lower the effectiveness of that suit when used within the parameters of the suits style. that is why my laser amarian suits trump most others..i dont hp tank it
hp tanking may be a problem with logi suits but i stick to the faith that a true logi fitting her/his suit the way it was meant to be fit is always better than an hp tanking scrub.
now my assault suit adv has 289 shield 260 armor with 5 hps and a 7 run speed 4.9 mov speed shield recovery 23 recharge 20 the laser rifle on this suit runs with 1 dmg mod without dmg mod it has 361 shield and cannot carry av nades
my logi has 144 shield 345 armor with 5 hps 6.4 runspeed 4.4 mov speed shield recovery15.6 recharge 17
this suit runs with 3 dmg mods types variating operates with 100% adv logi gear
now remove logi gear 100% leav it at just adv nano you can give it 365 shield with that 345 armor and 5hps but it will be slower speed is crucial to assault
my point maybe the cal logi and gal logi and min logi have an hp tanking problem the amarian does not...the amarian assault can be fitted to trump the amarian logi hand down any day i have both..i prefer the assault for slaying for a legit reason..the empress in all her wisdom does not have these imbalances in her realm that the gallente and caldari scum do
whatever fixes ccp wants to do to logi's leave amarians out of it
btw ..shield delay has been changed as of 1.6 to give cal logi's a legit reason to use shield regulators over armor plates..they may not have caught on yet but they will (this revelation is the discovery of sana rayu ask him why cal logi's should use shield regs now |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1293
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community.
The AR is an automatic sniper rifle with no downsides or balancing features. It can down a heavy with 1300 ehp in less than 2 seconds from 50+ meters away.
The ASCR actually has recoil and dispersion while ADS, which prevents it from being an automatic sniper rifle, thus balancing it.
The SR is NOT automatic and overheats if fired too quickly. It also is less effective in terms of damage AND accuracy at close range. This weapon is balanced.
Why is the SR better than the AR again?
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1772
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would like to see a general damage reduction to weapons and then change drop suits to only allow a single high and low slot allowed for buffer tank. How many layers of armor can you really stack without being encumbered? How many shield emitters? The rest should then be active modules to support that, or here's a novel thought, some of those other modules that aren't focused on brick tanking.
AKA: Rees Noturana https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
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Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1593
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community. The AR is an automatic sniper rifle with no downsides or balancing features. It can down a heavy with 1300 ehp in less than 2 seconds from 50+ meters away. The ASCR actually has recoil and dispersion while ADS, which prevents it from being an automatic sniper rifle, thus balancing it. The SR is NOT automatic and overheats if fired too quickly. It also is less effective in terms of damage AND accuracy at close range. This weapon is balanced. Why is the SR better than the AR again?
charged shot and you still volley another 5 shots (with heat to spare) and you do over 1k damage.
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1293
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community. Why is the SR better than the AR again? charged shot and you still volley another 5 shots (with heat to spare) and you do over 1k damage.
...because it's a skill weapon, not an automatic sniper. It's what balances the weapon and makes it so that not everyone can use it. It also isn't as effective against armor and armor tanks.
If I die by a scrambler I know that the person had to aim his shot percicely and make it count. If I die by an AR from 100 meters away because he held down a trigger while aiming at my body and hit me with every single round, I know that there needs to be something done with the recoil/dispersion of that weapon.
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Kaylee Veloc
ShootBreakStab
16
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:my point maybe the cal logi and gal logi and min logi have an hp tanking problem the amarian does not..
Just so it's out there the Minmatar have the lowest eHP to start with although they gain speed it doesn't count for much these days. I also run both the Adv Assault and Logi Mini suits like you said you do Amarr and my Assault can fit a damage mod where I wouldn't put one on my Logi suits because getting to near the same eHP as the Assault requires the extra extender as you already pointed out, I don't gimp my equipment to fit bricks either.
Sometimes on my Logi I will try to fit it as a combat medic type deal but it's still around the same eHP, equipment as my other Logi fittings just with more armour than shield and maybe a damage mod instead.
It's all down to how each person wants to fit their suit anyway which is one of the things that makes this game. You can't really nerf choice without removing it all together tbh.
Told myself I wouldn't go posting on one of these threads >_< |
Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1598
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community. Why is the SR better than the AR again? charged shot and you still volley another 5 shots (with heat to spare) and you do over 1k damage. ...because it's a skill weapon, not an automatic sniper. It's what balances the weapon and makes it so that not everyone can use it. It also isn't as effective against armor and armor tanks. If I die by a scrambler I know that the person had to aim his shot percicely and make it count. If I die by an AR from 100 meters away because he held down a trigger while aiming at my body and hit me with every single round, I know that there needs to be something done with the recoil/dispersion of that weapon.
When people say things like "auto sniper" I kinda lol. It doesn't do over 100 damage a shot....not even close. The Imperial has no issues doing damage at the ranges AR's do.
In practice
Imperial SCR's >Duvolle every time.
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4231
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anyone saying the SCR is a skill weapon is full of **** and never actually tried a fully skilled SCR. If it wasn't for the SCR's CPU/PG requirements, I would use it on all suits.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Kaylee Veloc
ShootBreakStab
17
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Edit can you link me to a dev post or ccp thread that tells us the efficacy of the ar vs scr in terms of shield vs armor?
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
1366
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community.
Ar is far better than scr lol
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
Fix PC lag please CCP.
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1295
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Anyone saying the SCR is a skill weapon is full of **** and never actually tried a fully skilled SCR. If it wasn't for the SCR's CPU/PG requirements, I would use it on all suits.
Proficiency V right here :P
And yes, it IS a skill weapon. I could be wrong, but I don't see just anyone picking up the SR and killing a heavy in 2 seconds.
Yet I see noobs with Militia ARs downing them left and right almost every round.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4231
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Anyone saying the SCR is a skill weapon is full of **** and never actually tried a fully skilled SCR. If it wasn't for the SCR's CPU/PG requirements, I would use it on all suits. Proficiency V right here :P And yes, it IS a skill weapon. I could be wrong, but I don't see just anyone picking up the SR and killing a heavy in 2 seconds. Yet I see noobs with Militia ARs downing them left and right almost every round. lolno. I kill people with my SCR faster than any assault rifle could. Psst, it has 931 DPS if you can tap the trigger fast enough, and that's not including proficiency or damage mods ;)
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7538
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd really rather see what CCP does with assaults, scouts and the HMG (the heavy's real problem) first before they nerf logistics again.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1295
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
He meant how much they do against armor/shields.
Scrambler is -20% armor +20% shields because it is LASER AR is -5% armor +10% shields because it is PLASMA
Hybrid is 100% damage to both shields/armor (i.e. forge gun) Railgun is ? (I know it's good against armor) Projectile is +10% armor...not sure about shields Explosive is +20% armor -20% shields
I bet if you hit the search button and typed in "plasma hybrid 20%" something might come up.
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Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1604
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Anyone saying the SCR is a skill weapon is full of **** and never actually tried a fully skilled SCR. If it wasn't for the SCR's CPU/PG requirements, I would use it on all suits. Proficiency V right here :P And yes, it IS a skill weapon. I could be wrong, but I don't see just anyone picking up the SR and killing a heavy in 2 seconds. Yet I see noobs with Militia ARs downing them left and right almost every round.
You show me a video of a heavy being mowed down 1v1 vs a militia ar and I'm gonna show you a video of a bad heavy who can't aim....or a proto suit rocking 3x damage mods using a militia ar to give himself a bit more of a challenge with 48 bullets.
Heavies need an hmg range buff, yes. but in cqc if the heavy loses to a militia assault rifle most likely, he was bad or got ambushed.
SCR took me about 3 days to start droping 30+ kill skirms...about 3 weeks to consistently put up 40-50 kill games...solo without OB's I'll get you some pics if you like) I can't drop the same kills with the ar because the scr can charge and shoot, and then duck behind cover...allowing me to pick off charging squads without a problem where and ar requires the sustained removal of cover.
And really I think the scr is only slightly better than the ar...except on the amarr assault...where it evolves into ez mode.
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
336
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community. In other words, you're backing a dead horse, and will be upset when you find out you can't ride it anymore?.... seriously?
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
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Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1604
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:He meant how much they do against armor/shields. Scrambler is -20% armor +20% shields because it is LASER AR is -5% armor +10% shields because it is PLASMA Hybrid is 100% damage to both shields/armor (i.e. forge gun) Railgun is ? (I know it's good against armor) Projectile is +10% armor...not sure about shields Explosive is +20% armor -20% shields I bet if you hit the search button and typed in "plasma hybrid 20%" something might come up.
You should have just kept reading the link he posted....it said that the ar does +10% shields and -10% armor.
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1604
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Hold shitfucksbatman people...if I see one more thread detailing how to reduce the ar's effectiveness when the SCR is better than the AR I'm gonna lose hope in the community. In other words, you're backing a dead horse, and will be upset when you find out you can't ride it anymore?.... seriously?
Is backing a new sex position I need to know about? riding dead horses sounds fun.
Anyways...Seriously?!?
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1295
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: lolno. I kill people with my SCR faster than any assault rifle could. Psst, it has 931 DPS if you can tap the trigger fast enough, and that's not including proficiency or damage mods ;)
Exactly, because you are a skilled player and therefore use the weapon more effectively because it is a skill based weapon. Any other non-skilled player would find the SR hard to use and a piece of crap compared to the AR.
You just made your argument invalid...?
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Zatara Rought
Imperfects
1605
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Posted - 2013.11.09 14:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Cat Merc wrote: lolno. I kill people with my SCR faster than any assault rifle could. Psst, it has 931 DPS if you can tap the trigger fast enough, and that's not including proficiency or damage mods ;)
Exactly, because you are a skilled player and therefore use the weapon more effectively because it is a skill based weapon. Any other non-skilled player would find the SR hard to use and a piece of crap compared to the AR. You just made your argument invalid...?
Cat Merc openly admits he's a scrub....now who's argument is invalidated.
That's Masternader to you scrub.
Skype me @ Zatara.Rought
CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
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