DUST Search - Lets talk about Roles, TTK, scout not being viable, and the dreaded logi.

CharCharOdell wrote:

shady merc wrote:

Continued from 3rd post
3. Prof skill.
This skill is simply to strong at the moment. So I suggest 2 different approaches.
1. 2% damage increase while within optimal range
2. % bonus to any attribute that affect DPS other then damage(rof,clip size etc.)

This does 2 things for us.
1. it lessens the gap between vet and new players. Currently a new player can't hope to catch up to the damage of vet player between this and damage mods. So they will feel the need to proto a weapon simply to unlock this skill. With so little skillpints this forces them into a very specialized role and destroy versatility.

2. It allows range to be the control factor that ccp can use for balancing. By not allowing us to increase our range from multiple sources CCP is capable of creating a more balanced environment as well as more niche weapons.

Almost forgot.

During my re-balance of modules I made a big change to reactive armor plates I forgot to mention.

Reactive Plates. During the balancing of these I decided their function needed to change and become more reactive. So now the reactive plates have 2 rate of armor repair the first one is rate of repair while you have shields. The 2nd one is rate of repair while your shields are depleted. I think this gives them a much better niche role and allows them to be usable by both armor and shield tanks. a shield tank gets a small armor repair and a little buffer but may take them longer to heal armor. For the armor tank this gives them the ability to play a strong hit and hide. By giving them a bigger buffer they can come out of cover a trade shots. Now once their shield are depleted they can go behind cover regen their armor at a quicken rate. Once their shield start to regen they will want to re-attack this allows them to use more of a regeneration tank style. pushing the battle when the enemy is ready knowing they will have the upper hand in hitpoints.

Passive skills should affect everything except DPS. Removing the weapon proficiency skill is the best short term solution to the TTK issue, IMO, as it affects lower DPS weapons much less.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2013.11.09 02:50:00 - [1] - Quote EDITING sorry formating came out worse then expected fixing now. So looking through the forums currenlty there is a lot of talk about logi suit needs "nerfs", scout suit isn't viable, TTK to short, and no role but slayer is viable. I agree with most of this. Here an in depth look into these issues. To start with we are going to look at all the suits and how they stack up against each other. Suit CPU PG #Slots #Equipment PG Ratio Fitting Power Fitting per Slot fitting per slot Scout suit Slots w/o equip with equip Gal. G-1 125 30 6 1 4.16 275 45.83 39.28 Min M-1 115 30 6 1 3.83 265 44.17 37.85 Gal G/1 175 42 7 1 4.16 385 55.00 48.12 Min M/1 161 42 7 1 3.83 371 53.00 46.37 Gal GK.0 250 60 8 1 4.16 550 68.75 61.11 Min MK.0 230 60 8 1 3.83 530 66.25 58.89 Assualt A-1 175 35 6 1 5 350 58.33 50 C-1 150 30 7 1 5 300 42.86 37.5 G-1 150 30 7 1 5 300 42.86 37.5 M-1 160 32 7 1 5 320 45.71 40 A/1 245 49 7 1 5 490 70.00 61.25 C/1 210 42 8 1 5 420 52.50 46.66 M/1 224 45 8 1 4.97 449 56.13 49.88 AK.0 350 70 9 1 5 700 77.78 70 CK.0 300 60 10 1 5 600 60.00 54.54 GK.0 300 60 10 1 5 600 60.00 54.54 MK.0 320 64 10 1 5 640 64.00 58.18 Logi A-1 195 36 7 2 5.41 375 53.57 41.66 C-1 175 39 5 2 4.48 370 74.00 52.85 G-1 195 39 5 2 5 390 78.00 55.71 M-1 195 39 6 3 5 390 65.00 43.33 A/1 273 50 9 3 5.46 523 58.11 43.58 C/1 245 55 7 3 4.45 520 74.29 52 G/1 273 55 7 3 4.96 548 78.29 54.8 M/1 273 55 8 3 4.96 548 68.50 49.81 AK.0 390 72 10 3 5.41 750 75.00 57.69 CK.0 350 78 11 3 4.48 740 67.27 52.85 GK.0 390 78 10 4 5 780 78.00 55.71 MK.0 390 78 10 4 5 780 78.00 55.71
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2013.11.09 02:50:00 - [2] - Quote reserved
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2013.11.09 02:51:00 - [3] - Quote reserved
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2013.11.09 05:54:00 - [4] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: I want to see the full thing but I already have a good Idea where it is going. There was a thread last month where we were essentially doing the reverse calculation for a few weapons. We were looking at the "Total fitting cost" of weapons to compare their fitting "balance". The fitting score approach is an interesting way to suss out the power of a suit. It lets us consider fitting as if it were just another stat. It also allows for some of the glaring imbalances to come to light. That thread is were I originally got the idea to compare them in such a way. working on the spreadsheet now that will show the assault vs new logi. I will then work on the scout and heavy. Last will be about how I think modules should scale.
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2013.11.09 06:03:00 - [5] - Quote Cosgar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: calls Cosgar on the logi bat-phone I kind of stopped caring about forum warrioring for logis. Haven't seen anyone from CCP saying anything about logis since the logi nerf from months ago. We all got nerfed, but nobody chooses to accept it. Everyone can raise their pitchforks about a class they think should be an easy kill in an FPS of all places, but for what? CCP barely listens to the CPM, why the hell do you think they're going to listen to self entitled butthurt? Cosgar this isn't about making the logi a healer in the background or some sub-par role. I am a logi and I believe I should be able to carry a light weapon and kill people just as well as the next guy. This is about bringing a balance as a whole to the game and I am basing everything off of the current Assault suit in game. Why? because it is the only class of suit with any resemblance of balance. Look at the logi why the hell did we nerf caldari cpu making them lower then everyone else. Why do they start of with lowest number of module slot at basic the have the most at proto. Looking at the scout there is no reason for the minmatar to have less cpu then Gallente. I guess I could of started the balancing game from heavy suit as it a pretty balanced suit(issue are with the weapons), but it really easy to be balanced when there is only 1 race that has it.
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 24	Posted - 2013.11.10 05:27:00 - [6] - Quote finished up the logi vs assault and started the scout section
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 26	Posted - 2013.11.11 17:22:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Nice maths, infact that is some damn sexy math. However I think instead of adding a "-90% equipment fitting" to each logi, use the following equation. Percentage Reduction = (100 - (100 / "Number of equipment slots on suit")) Apply this bonus to logistics suits only, then homogenize its fitting power with the assault suit. Then show 1) fitting power for both suits with everything 2) fitting power for both suits with everything, but on the logi suit accumulate the fitting power across all equipment. Post the results and tell me what you think! Not at the house at the moment, put I will make another spreadsheet showing this hopefully tonight
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 28	Posted - 2013.11.29 04:27:00 - [8] - Quote Bumping this since logi nerf are all the talk
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 31	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:53:00 - [9] - Quote Continued from 3rd post 3. Prof skill. This skill is simply to strong at the moment. So I suggest 2 different approaches. 1. 2% damage increase while within optimal range 2. % bonus to any attribute that affect DPS other then damage(rof,clip size etc.) This does 2 things for us. 1. it lessens the gap between vet and new players. Currently a new player can't hope to catch up to the damage of vet player between this and damage mods. So they will feel the need to proto a weapon simply to unlock this skill. With so little skillpints this forces them into a very specialized role and destroy versatility. 2. It allows range to be the control factor that ccp can use for balancing. By not allowing us to increase our range from multiple sources CCP is capable of creating a more balanced environment as well as more niche weapons. Almost forgot. During my re-balance of modules I made a big change to reactive armor plates I forgot to mention. Reactive Plates. During the balancing of these I decided their function needed to change and become more reactive. So now the reactive plates have 2 rate of armor repair the first one is rate of repair while you have shields. The 2nd one is rate of repair while your shields are depleted. I think this gives them a much better niche role and allows them to be usable by both armor and shield tanks. a shield tank gets a small armor repair and a little buffer but may take them longer to heal armor. For the armor tank this gives them the ability to play a strong hit and hide. By giving them a bigger buffer they can come out of cover a trade shots. Now once their shield are depleted they can go behind cover regen their armor at a quicken rate. Once their shield start to regen they will want to re-attack this allows them to use more of a regeneration tank style. pushing the battle when the enemy is ready knowing they will have the upper hand in hitpoints.
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 31	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:36:00 - [10] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: shady merc wrote: Continued from 3rd post 3. Prof skill. This skill is simply to strong at the moment. So I suggest 2 different approaches. 1. 2% damage increase while within optimal range 2. % bonus to any attribute that affect DPS other then damage(rof,clip size etc.) This does 2 things for us. 1. it lessens the gap between vet and new players. Currently a new player can't hope to catch up to the damage of vet player between this and damage mods. So they will feel the need to proto a weapon simply to unlock this skill. With so little skillpints this forces them into a very specialized role and destroy versatility. 2. It allows range to be the control factor that ccp can use for balancing. By not allowing us to increase our range from multiple sources CCP is capable of creating a more balanced environment as well as more niche weapons. Almost forgot. During my re-balance of modules I made a big change to reactive armor plates I forgot to mention. Reactive Plates. During the balancing of these I decided their function needed to change and become more reactive. So now the reactive plates have 2 rate of armor repair the first one is rate of repair while you have shields. The 2nd one is rate of repair while your shields are depleted. I think this gives them a much better niche role and allows them to be usable by both armor and shield tanks. a shield tank gets a small armor repair and a little buffer but may take them longer to heal armor. For the armor tank this gives them the ability to play a strong hit and hide. By giving them a bigger buffer they can come out of cover a trade shots. Now once their shield are depleted they can go behind cover regen their armor at a quicken rate. Once their shield start to regen they will want to re-attack this allows them to use more of a regeneration tank style. pushing the battle when the enemy is ready knowing they will have the upper hand in hitpoints. Passive skills should affect everything except DPS. Removing the weapon proficiency skill is the best short term solution to the TTK issue, IMO, as it affects lower DPS weapons much less. While the game would probably come out alot better if the passive skill didn't affect dps I figured that would be a huge uproar. Also if we decided that prof still affect DPS then we would have to look into balancing them for each weapon. So maybe give a full auto weapon a small rof increase or clip size increase(increasing burst dps) while still giving alpha damage weapons straight damage increases. I think a huge problem with the skill is we used the same thing across the board for almost every weapon creating a huge difference in how useful it is to each weapon. I would also be happy with see the skill as a trade of skill as well. Say give more damage to your rifle but lowers the ROF. But a system like that would be better of used on weapon customization not passive skills.