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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6937
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Posted - 2013.11.07 04:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Joining a battle is like flipping a coin to decide if I will love or hate Dust. The coin seems to be landing on the unfavorable side a lot more.
I get on, play with some standard suits and maybe some advanced guns to try to have some fun, but I'm just grouped against squads of prototype suits and duvolle ARs. Sometimes I get on and the battle is one-sided in the favor of my team because of protostomping, and that makes the battle even worse; I often quit battles like that just from the boredom. Sometimes I get into battles and actually do have a fun close battle where the teams are fairly evenly matched; these battles make me actually love playing the game, but they are often overshadowed by the frustration or boredom of one-sided battles.
Its very frustrating, I have prototype gear myself, but I shouldn't have to choose between being profitable and actually having fun. I just want to be able to get on, jump into a battle, and have some damn fun.
The new matchmaking was supposed to solve it, but it did not, and its been months since the new matchmaking has been implemented, so I really don't have faith in CCP's ability to fix it with matchmaking.
My solution would be to get rid of dropsuit tiers, and make dropsuits like vehicles in this manner. Vehicles have no tiers other than militia and standard, but instead they just have the specializations. How it should work: Make militia gear equivalent to the current ADV basic frame dropsuits.
Standard basic frames should be the equivalent of the current PRO basic frames. The operation skills for basic frames need to give some kind of bonus to justify having 5 levels since specializations are unlocked at level 3; this bonus should also apply to all dropsuit specialization in that racial frame size.
Specialized suits (like assault or logistics) should be equivalent to the current PRO specialized suits. Skill bonus would be enough reason to keep people spending SP on the skill.
I proposed this idea before elsewhere, but the point of this thread is to express my frustration with this game right now. I just want to be able to jump into a battle, and consistently have fun. Whether its with my solution, or some something else (like gear restrictions, or WP scaling based on tier of items used), something needs to be done.
Normally I don't have to deal with the problems since I just normally AFK farm and wait for specific improvements/additions, but I don't have the time to make 600k SP (event) from just AFK farming, so I actually have to deal with playing the game .
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3800
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Posted - 2013.11.07 05:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joining a battle is like flipping a coin to decide if I will love or hate Dust. The coin seems to be landing on the unfavorable side a lot more. I get on, play with some standard suits and maybe some advanced guns to try to have some fun, but I'm just grouped against squads of prototype suits and duvolle ARs. Sometimes I get on and the battle is one-sided in the favor of my team because of protostomping, and that makes the battle even worse; I often quit battles like that just from the boredom. Sometimes I get into battles and actually do have a fun close battle where the teams are fairly evenly matched; these battles make me actually love playing the game, but they are often overshadowed by the frustration or boredom of one-sided battles. Its very frustrating, I have prototype gear myself, but I shouldn't have to choose between being profitable and actually having fun. I just want to be able to get on, jump into a battle, and have some damn fun. The new matchmaking was supposed to solve it, but it did not, and its been months since the new matchmaking has been implemented, so I really don't have faith in CCP's ability to fix it with matchmaking. My solution would be to get rid of dropsuit tiers, and make dropsuits like vehicles in this manner. Vehicles have no tiers other than militia and standard, but instead they just have the specializations. How it should work: Make militia gear equivalent to the current ADV basic frame dropsuits.
Standard basic frames should be the equivalent of the current PRO basic frames. The operation skills for basic frames need to give some kind of bonus to justify having 5 levels since specializations are unlocked at level 3; this bonus should also apply to all dropsuit specialization in that racial frame size.
Specialized suits (like assault or logistics) should be equivalent to the current PRO specialized suits. Skill bonus would be enough reason to keep people spending SP on the skill.
I proposed this idea before elsewhere, but the point of this thread is to express my frustration with this game right now. I just want to be able to jump into a battle, and consistently have fun. Whether its with my solution, or some something else (like gear restrictions, or WP scaling based on tier of items used), something needs to be done. Normally I don't have to deal with the problems since I just normally AFK farm and wait for specific improvements/additions, but I don't have the time to make 600k SP (event) from just AFK farming, so I actually have to deal with playing the game . Death to tiers.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Assassin Of Virtue
Butt Hurt Try Hards
0
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Posted - 2013.11.07 05:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
I feel you. This seems to be a common complaint, and I agree. What they actually need to do, is come up with an overall level like every other FPS, which is based on your skill levels. And then the matchmaker could more easily match up properly. (As far as public contracts go, but perhaps FW contracts could be left as is. You either get stomped or ya don't). As far as I'm concerned, the only way the matchmaker can match is by comparing all the skills a char has and then comparing levels...but then when trying to matchmake that can get quite troublesome.
One thing I have noticed too is bad tactics tend to contribute. Players need to stop dropping all their links right in the middle of the dang field of fire, serious. It's either spawn back at the MCC or where ever you are placed during spawning on Ambush missions, or spawn right in someone's line of fire. Links need to be placed strategically, maybe behind some cover at the very least, or in a place where players could spawn and flank the enemy. I don't expect players to get smart about dropping links anytime soon so I think to even things up CCP should perhaps find a way to mark combat zones on maps and you could only drop links where there isn't combat going on. |
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1428
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 06:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
*raises glass*
To Tiericide.
All that need be done should thus occur is making every skill worthwhile.
The base frame skills, have the L/H/S weapon operation skills useful.
Pretty much make the skill worth training for a reason beyond "Well, I got all this SP", or "I need it to unlock this.
I believe the same should be done with the weapons too.
Give ADV weapons and equipment the stats of PRO stuff, remove PRO stuff.
Modules I could let slide. But, if you want everything tiericided, then remove the basic module tier and leave the enhanced and complex.
The new standard items should unlock at LVL 1, like always, and the "PRO" modules should unlock at level 3.
I don't think most forumites understand how much Tiericide would do in improving PR.
DUST is a pretty solid game IMO for the cost, just **** like this basically grinds my love for the idea, and the decent implementation into paste of hate.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
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Captain Crutches
Nexus Marines
29
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
I agree. Only for pub matches though; FW and PC have a real impact on the Eve universe, and as such should remain as "anything goes" as possible.
However, since I only really play pub matches, I definitely am all too familiar with the problem. Very occasionally I'm placed on a team with the stompers, but I'm more likely to get stomped myself than have a fair, even, fun match. I am logging in and playing Dust less because 3 out of 4 times I'll just get protostomped and it just isn't fun, and I've been playing on and off since closed beta. I can't imagine what it must be like for newberries fresh out of the academy, and what it must be doing to player retention.
I'm also in favor of Tiericide, in both Eve and Dust. Yes, SP and personal skill do play a role, but when the tier gaps are so large that a mediocre player using Aurum proto gear can blap someone in militia gear who would almost certainly win in an even fight but can barely scratch the proto suit, we have a problem. It's true that Aurum gear (in theory) isn't any "better" than its ISK counterparts, and with time anyone can get into anything, but when someone can pay real money to access gear that an equally specced/skilled player can't, that's pay to win, plain and simple.
Seriously, it's at the point where it puts a smile on my face to see someone kill me with a militia fit. Anything that impacts the Eve universe should remain open and cutthroat as New Eden should be, but in these pub matches that arguably don't matter at all, there should either be some restrictions/levels, or something needs to be done about proto itself.
My .02 isk before bed
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3013
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Posted - 2013.11.07 07:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
I still like your individuated skill sets for roles/suits thread. The cool thing about a strong skill system there is that it would with or without tiericide. |
zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
254
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 07:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joining a battle is like flipping a coin to decide if I will love or hate Dust. The coin seems to be landing on the unfavorable side a lot more. I get on, play with some standard suits and maybe some advanced guns to try to have some fun, but I'm just grouped against squads of prototype suits and duvolle ARs. Sometimes I get on and the battle is one-sided in the favor of my team because of protostomping, and that makes the battle even worse; I often quit battles like that just from the boredom. Sometimes I get into battles and actually do have a fun close battle where the teams are fairly evenly matched; these battles make me actually love playing the game, but they are often overshadowed by the frustration or boredom of one-sided battles. Its very frustrating, I have prototype gear myself, but I shouldn't have to choose between being profitable and actually having fun. I just want to be able to get on, jump into a battle, and have some damn fun. The new matchmaking was supposed to solve it, but it did not, and its been months since the new matchmaking has been implemented, so I really don't have faith in CCP's ability to fix it with matchmaking. My solution would be to get rid of dropsuit tiers, and make dropsuits like vehicles in this manner. Vehicles have no tiers other than militia and standard, but instead they just have the specializations. How it should work: Make militia gear equivalent to the current ADV basic frame dropsuits.
Standard basic frames should be the equivalent of the current PRO basic frames. The operation skills for basic frames need to give some kind of bonus to justify having 5 levels since specializations are unlocked at level 3; this bonus should also apply to all dropsuit specialization in that racial frame size.
Specialized suits (like assault or logistics) should be equivalent to the current PRO specialized suits. Skill bonus would be enough reason to keep people spending SP on the skill.
I proposed this idea before elsewhere, but the point of this thread is to express my frustration with this game right now. I just want to be able to jump into a battle, and consistently have fun. Whether its with my solution, or some something else (like gear restrictions, or WP scaling based on tier of items used), something needs to be done. Normally I don't have to deal with the problems since I just normally AFK farm and wait for specific improvements/additions, but I don't have the time to make 600k SP (event) from just AFK farming, so I actually have to deal with playing the game . Death to tiers.
How about I punch your teeth out.
Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6952
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Posted - 2013.11.07 19:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joining a battle is like flipping a coin to decide if I will love or hate Dust. The coin seems to be landing on the unfavorable side a lot more. I get on, play with some standard suits and maybe some advanced guns to try to have some fun, but I'm just grouped against squads of prototype suits and duvolle ARs. Sometimes I get on and the battle is one-sided in the favor of my team because of protostomping, and that makes the battle even worse; I often quit battles like that just from the boredom. Sometimes I get into battles and actually do have a fun close battle where the teams are fairly evenly matched; these battles make me actually love playing the game, but they are often overshadowed by the frustration or boredom of one-sided battles. Its very frustrating, I have prototype gear myself, but I shouldn't have to choose between being profitable and actually having fun. I just want to be able to get on, jump into a battle, and have some damn fun. The new matchmaking was supposed to solve it, but it did not, and its been months since the new matchmaking has been implemented, so I really don't have faith in CCP's ability to fix it with matchmaking. My solution would be to get rid of dropsuit tiers, and make dropsuits like vehicles in this manner. Vehicles have no tiers other than militia and standard, but instead they just have the specializations. How it should work: Make militia gear equivalent to the current ADV basic frame dropsuits.
Standard basic frames should be the equivalent of the current PRO basic frames. The operation skills for basic frames need to give some kind of bonus to justify having 5 levels since specializations are unlocked at level 3; this bonus should also apply to all dropsuit specialization in that racial frame size.
Specialized suits (like assault or logistics) should be equivalent to the current PRO specialized suits. Skill bonus would be enough reason to keep people spending SP on the skill.
I proposed this idea before elsewhere, but the point of this thread is to express my frustration with this game right now. I just want to be able to jump into a battle, and consistently have fun. Whether its with my solution, or some something else (like gear restrictions, or WP scaling based on tier of items used), something needs to be done. Normally I don't have to deal with the problems since I just normally AFK farm and wait for specific improvements/additions, but I don't have the time to make 600k SP (event) from just AFK farming, so I actually have to deal with playing the game . Death to tiers. How about I punch your teeth out. His teeth have my blessings, thus cannot be punched out.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
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Talos Vagheitan
140
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Posted - 2013.11.07 19:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tiers aren't the cause of the pubstomping. If two full squads of good players Q-sync in a pub match, they will dominate the match regardless of gear.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation
462
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Posted - 2013.11.07 19:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
it seems the only way to create a "close" match even when your out matched or outgunned is to get the blueberries involved. and try to insert some team coordination in the battle for your team.
but of course. its hard to do this stuff when zerg tactics are so effective.
the only thing to do now a days is to try and grab a fg and pop as many of their proto suits as possible to make u u won on isk.
before the lav "fix" all the blueberries just spawned a cheap lav down and ran them all over because they loved to hang around the redzone in the middle of the road redlining everything..
thus our removal of the free default lav and then the over nerfs to the lav bumpers.
and then after this type of stuff was followed by a few more nerfs and buffs and supposed "fixes" we soon now have the complaints of players driving around logi lavs while wearing heavy suits.
honestly most of the matches ive been coming across relate to the proto bears losing a proto suit.
and when those with mlt get a small tiny buff. so they can kill proto a little easier. which in turn made it to where proto bears rnt 100% invincible anymore via gunplay. we now see more whiney complaint threads.
and i guarantee that we will always see these whiney complaint nerf certain item threads forever.
as for the tiercide type things.
im not entirely sure how making a mlt suit the equivalent of an adv suits would work out.
i dont think id have any problem with it but i just dont see the end goal here. unless its to lessen the gap between mlt newberries and proto bears.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ i recognize the potential this game has. and i wish for it the game to use its full potential. dust has the ability to do what no other game could do. become something that ultimately wont become boring after beating the campaign. an ever changing game should most likely be the longest lasting one. |
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
1182
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Posted - 2013.11.07 19:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
tiercide sounds good, though i'd like to see viable suggestions on how to accomplish it.
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1871
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 20:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI, I suggest play to the times.
And the times are all about TTK right now.
Use this to our strength. People need to understand that specialisations over tiers WILL mean TTK goes up. Right now if CCP made crazy nerfs (like removing the 10% damage from Uprising), it will only come back to bite them when they implement new content that was probably locked in with Sony prior to the nerf, hence creating another issue when the new content is out.
Tiercide simplifies the process by making it much, much easier to balance things because, put simply, it's 3 times less work. Instead of proto, advanced and basic it's just one of those three tiers.
Furthermore, when everyone has the same gear which varies based on specialisations, the ONLY way CCP can show there is a difference as you progress and gain SP is through the modules you unlock. Therefore they'll have to make module effects more significant, hence more eHP. Not to mention balancing modules will become the focus if we keep module tiers, and this can only mean good. I was thinking shield extenders should go (44-66-99) and armour plates could go (90-115-140), and so much extra HP won't benefit protobears at all, because newbies don't have to put all that SP into suits that can handle complex modules.
Oh, here's another reason. If we actually persuade CCP to reassess the situation and make them see the viability of tiercide everyone who has speced into prototype gear will get refunded quite a bit of SP, UNLESS they keep the skills for variants. And that's the beauty of it! There doesn't need to be drastic change to the skill system either.
"..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed."
-Veigar
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1440
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Tiers aren't the cause of the pubstomping. If two full squads of good players Q-sync in a pub match, they will dominate the match regardless of gear. A squad of good STD players v. STD Bluedots
A squad of good players in PRO v. STD Bluedots
What is more fair?
There WILL be matches that are going to be tough, but completely onesided fights are completely killing any fun from the game
Think about it.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
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Eskel Bondfree
DUST University Ivy League
157
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Agreed, tiericide it must be!
It's bull crap, especially in an FPS, that higher level gear and skills simply mean "5% better at everything". Higher level should mean more options and more flexibility instead. Any advantage should come with a drawback of some kind.
Just look at the assault rifles. A prototype AR has better damage, range and accuracy than a basic one, not a single drawback. 10% damage bonus, plus 15% damage bonus from proficiency skill. Those two numbers are snowballing into a whooping 31.8% extra damage if you compare a basic and a protoype fitting that both use two complex damage mods. Who came up with this in an FPS?
A stacked team of clan players against a bunch of randoms will always result in loop sided match, but if each of the former has an extra 30% damage and health, it gets that much more frustrating. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6962
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 21:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Tiers aren't the cause of the pubstomping. If two full squads of good players Q-sync in a pub match, they will dominate the match regardless of gear. A squad of good STD players v. STD Bluedots A squad of good players in PRO v. STD Bluedots What is more fair? There WILL be matches that are going to be tough, but completely onesided fights are completely killing any fun from the game Think about it. Great examples
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
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Rallimaze Naka
S'S Wild Praetorian Directorate
0
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Excellent topic wording. It doesn't feel like I'm playing these days, I'm just dying. It has become tiresome buying suits that are now essentially just bullet catchers for protos. To be honest I haven't been playing these past two weeks due to this very issue. I'm an FPS-aholic and have no qualms having a crappy kdr, BUT it would nice to at least get a shot in once in a while...or blink. |
Templar 514
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:*snipped generally good ideas*
I rather like where this tiericide gig is going. In EVE it's a really cool thing, so I do agree we should bring it over to DUST. Also, if this means that suddenly my Amarr Logi is 3H/4L/3Equip all day erry day, well, then that's pretty awesome.
This being said, I do think that we might want to do a sort of hybrid approach for DUST; in EVE you have Tech 1 and Tech 2 (Faction and Tech 3 are a whole other can of worms). I'd say that you'd start with Tech 1 suits, but then as you advance your skill, you unlock the more expensive, more specialized, Tech 2 variant.
Using the Amarr Logi as an example, the Tech 1 variant would be 3H/3L/2Equip. The Tech 2 variant would gain a slight amount of fitting resources, an additional low slot, and a third equipment slot. The difference would be the unlock points- Lvl1 Amarr Logistics for the T1 suit, and Lvl3 (or perhaps 4?) Amarr Logistics for access to the Tech 2 variant. I'd also emphasize that any fitting increase would be a case more of "you get a little more PG/CPU, but you'll need to make some compromises to fill out all of your slots".
Meeko Fent wrote:All that need be done should thus occur is making every skill worthwhile.
The base frame skills, have the L/H/S weapon operation skills useful.
Pretty much make the skill worth training for a reason beyond "Well, I got all this SP", or "I need it to unlock this.
Just quoting this to point out that the weapon operation skills actually do have an effect, that being "-3% CPU Usage per level" of the respective weapon category. The actual "Weaponry" skill itself has no purpose other than unlocking things; while the weaponry operation skills are as I noted above.
Vyzion Eyri wrote:*snipped beatific tiericide proposal*
There is only one thing I dislike about your proposal, and that's that the shield extender progression seems... off. Like, it seems to be a little to close to how it currently is, in that it (currently) goes x->x+(1/2*x)->3x. In non-mathese, that's 22hp-33hp-66hp; going from basic to enhanced means a 50% increase in available EHP per module, while going from enhanced to complex doubles the amount of EHP you gain, and compared to basic you get 3x the amount of EHP for each complex extender.
Your proposal is 44-66-99, which is mathematically y->y+(1/2*y)->2y+(1/4*y); that is to say, the benefits of going from basic to enhanced are HUGE. It's not nearly as horrible as it currently stands, where you get 3x as much EHP from a complex extender as a basic, but still, going up by 225% is enormous. The only thing is, do we want shield extender progression to mirror armor plate progression, like how for each tier increase a plate offers +25hp, while for shields, currently going to enhanced is +11hp, while going to complex is +44hp; your proposal is +22hp for going up to enhanced, and +55hp for going up to complex.
Ironically, your proposal, despite being more balanced, has a greater raw EHP gain going from basic to complex, even though the differential EHP gain is quite a bit less.
All that to say that I think perhaps it extender progression should be modified to a 44-66-88 progression, gaining 22hp per level, much like plates gain 25hp per level. Incidentally, this also solidifies some differences between armor and shield- armor gives more EHP per module, and gains more EHP per tier, than shields, but also slows you down and doesn't naturally regenerate.
Otherwise, well. Your proposal is glorious. Especially the part about killing protostomping. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
356
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:Agreed, tiericide it must be!
It's bull crap, especially in an FPS, that higher level gear and skills simply mean "5% better at everything". Higher level should mean more options and more flexibility instead. Any advantage should come with a drawback of some kind.
They do. They take lots more power. Which makes sense.
It's silly to claim we need to make all weapons somehow equal (which is what your argument will eventually boil down to, attempting to give drawbacks to supposedly balance out the gains)
We rather need to have battles that disallow protostomping.
We've had "the matchmaker" for a long time now. Let's face it:
ITS A FAILURE.
We need something else.
Personally, I'd like to see explicit options for creating battles with no proto gear. No proto suits, no proto weapons, no proto vehicles, no proto mods.
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DeadlyAztec11
Gallente Federation
2405
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes. One sided battles are boring, hell I rather be on the loosing side then the winning side because the winning side is the most boring thing ever.
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1446
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Eskel Bondfree wrote:Agreed, tiericide it must be!
It's bull crap, especially in an FPS, that higher level gear and skills simply mean "5% better at everything". Higher level should mean more options and more flexibility instead. Any advantage should come with a drawback of some kind.
They do. They take lots more power. Which makes sense. It's silly to claim we need to make all weapons somehow equal (which is what your argument will eventually boil down to, attempting to give drawbacks to supposedly balance out the gains) We rather need to have battles that disallow protostomping. We've had "the matchmaker" for a long time now. Let's face it: ITS A FAILURE. We need something else. Personally, I'd like to see explicit options for creating battles with no proto gear. No proto suits, no proto weapons, no proto vehicles, no proto mods. While this would fix Pubstomps, another issue the Tiericide (not this mans version, it's a bit wierd, but KAGEHOSHIs version of Tiericide) would sve would be the newbies are WORTHLESS.
Who would you want on your PC team, A new guy with only STD gear, or a bitter vet who has all proto.
Your idea is a good one, but it is a bit of a band aid.
Removing the STD and MLT tiers, and renaming the ADV and PRO tier MLT and STD would not only make this glorified shooting gallery of STD gear much more balanced, with player skill being more useful then gear level, it also, due to the reduced gap in gear effectiveness makes good new players just as valuable as good old ones, instead of cannon fodder.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
|
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Thorgen Barr
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.11.08 13:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Assassin Of Virtue wrote:I feel you. This seems to be a common complaint, and I agree. What they actually need to do, is come up with an overall level like every other FPS, which is based on your skill levels. And then the matchmaker could more easily match up properly. (As far as public contracts go, but perhaps FW contracts could be left as is. You either get stomped or ya don't). As far as I'm concerned, the only way the matchmaker can match is by comparing all the skills a char has and then comparing levels...but then when trying to matchmake that can get quite troublesome.
One thing I have noticed too is bad tactics tend to contribute. Players need to stop dropping all their links right in the middle of the dang field of fire, serious. It's either spawn back at the MCC or where ever you are placed during spawning on Ambush missions, or spawn right in someone's line of fire. Links need to be placed strategically, maybe behind some cover at the very least, or in a place where players could spawn and flank the enemy. I don't expect players to get smart about dropping links anytime soon so I think to even things up CCP should perhaps find a way to mark combat zones on maps and you could only drop links where there isn't combat going on.
Problem is in Ambush when I'm the only person with uplinks and I put 1 down near the frontline and 1 further back in safety it always ends up with the blueberrys staying right next to the uplinks and when the 1st gets overrun they respawn at the other uplink and then proceed to stay there as well rather than using it as a start point to then go forward and get into a better position .. the frontline should always be at least 50m away from the uplink .. don;t spawn in and stand there .. yes it's in cover but it's in cover so you don;t get sniped when you spawn in and thus gives you a chance to go somewhere else in relative safety
PS PS Assaults have an equipment slot and seem to spam militia uplinks to farm WP rather than actually puttign them down somewhere useful |
Eskel Bondfree
DUST University Ivy League
157
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Posted - 2013.11.08 17:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Eskel Bondfree wrote:Agreed, tiericide it must be!
It's bull crap, especially in an FPS, that higher level gear and skills simply mean "5% better at everything". Higher level should mean more options and more flexibility instead. Any advantage should come with a drawback of some kind.
They do. They take lots more power. Which makes sense. It's silly to claim we need to make all weapons somehow equal (which is what your argument will eventually boil down to, attempting to give drawbacks to supposedly balance out the gains) My point is that the stacking of damage boni is what disrupts balance in an FPS the most. There's no reason why advancing in the skill tree has to unlock a gun with more damage, making the same gun of lower tier obsolete (unless you're broke and can't afford the higher tier). Advancing in skill should unlock a different variant of the weapon, one that has a comparable killing power, but a different use case. Like the burst, breach and tactical variants of the AR (provided they all would actually be useful). There is a lot of room for variety playing with ROF, accuracy, range, number of bullets per magazin, type of scope, fire mode and special attributes like the charge feature of the scrambler rifle.
Instead, we get basic and prototype weapons. So one half of the players in a match is running around with super high powered rifles, while the other half is not. This does not create fun game play in an FPS.
Multiplying every item in the game by 3 to create different tiers just inflates the amount of items artificially and makes it seem there is a lot to chose from. In reality, there are four different assault rifles, two different scrambler rifles, and soon we'll have two combat and two rail rifles. You could condense those 10 weapons into a single weapon class, unlock two of them on each skill level and we would be fine. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6978
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Posted - 2013.11.09 05:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'd prefer if weapons, modules, and equipment weren't tiercided. Lower tier stuff is good for reducing PG/CPU consumption.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Talos Vagheitan
156
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Posted - 2013.11.09 07:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
I've been beating this drum for a while now, but "Tiercide" would solve ... nothing
Take a look at these examples someone posted earlier. Big thanks to the poster!
http://postimg.org/image/5uox4u9av/ http://postimg.org/image/gt06n0xw7/
Now do you believe for a second that limiting player gear would make any difference in a game like this? It wouldn't. What needs to be sorted is SP, which would in turn also help balance gear available to teams. If teams have similar SP levels, then both teams should be a healthy mix of blueberries and proto-squads.
Besides, Tiers are one of the core foundations of this game. Matchmaking needs improvement, but gutting the core principals of the game isn't the answer.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6982
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Posted - 2013.11.09 07:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:I've been beating this drum for a while now, but "Tiercide" would solve ... nothingTake a look at these examples someone posted earlier. Big thanks to the poster! http://postimg.org/image/5uox4u9av/http://postimg.org/image/gt06n0xw7/Now do you believe for a second that limiting player gear would make any difference in a game like this? It wouldn't. What needs to be sorted is SP, which would in turn also help balance gear available to teams. If teams have similar SP levels, then both teams should be a healthy mix of blueberries and proto-squads. Besides, Tiers are one of the core foundations of this game. Matchmaking needs improvement, but gutting the core principals of the game isn't the answer. Stomping on randoms is a whooooole lot easier with prototype gear than with standard gear. It definitely won't make uneven battles disappear for good, but it most certainly would ameliorate the situation. Its a fat of life in most shooters that organized vets will most likely beat the blueberries, but at least in most shooters the blueberries have a fair chance; tiercide would accomplish that by leveling the playing field a bit.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Eskel Bondfree
DUST University Ivy League
161
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Posted - 2013.11.09 16:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I'd prefer if weapons, modules, and equipment weren't tiercided. Lower tier stuff is good for reducing PG/CPU consumption. Nothing would stop you from making a weapon variant with lower CPU/PG requirements and decreased performance, like lower range, smaller clip size, or reduced ROF. You don't need tiers for that. Also look at all the 'stable' variants of equipment we have right now: they have lower fitting requirements and a somewhat worse performance.
There is also the option to introduce a whole new weapon class based on this characteristic, like the carbine. It would perform not as good as an AR, but leave more room for fitting modules. If you think about it, comparing a basic AR to a Duvolle right now already feels like comparing a carbine to an assault rifle in any other shooter that follows the Battlefield formula. |
Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
579
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Posted - 2013.11.09 17:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
I vote in favor of EVE's system.
Tech I is the standard. It's versatile, and you can use it in many different ways. Tech II is specialized. It's more powerful, but also more expensive and less versatile.
Tech III is... well, in EVE, it's a little bit broken at the moment. But the basic idea is that it's very customizable, and can perform multiple roles effectively. It can't outperform the Tech II in it's particular role, but it can still do it effectively. For example, say you have a T2 Logistics Dropsuit and a T2 Crusader (Command) Dropsuit. A T3 Dropsuit could be customized in a way that lets it perform the roles of both, but not to the level that the T2 Dropsuits can, and it's more expensive.
As for weapons, T1 would be fairly generic, T2 would be highly specialized to perform in a specific role or environment, and T3 would be highly customizable and versatile.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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The-Errorist
348
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Posted - 2013.11.11 09:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
784
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Posted - 2013.11.11 10:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
The suit tiering is one of the most poorly implemented parts of the skill system and it drives away both new and veteran players in droves. I've said it before and will continue to say it until CCP takes a sincere look at the problem. The problem is so deeply ingrained that it's one of the truly key problems with Dust.
Of all the sinking feelings I get about CCP's design decisions, the one I get over suit tiering is the worst. It feels like CCP just want players to have to spend AUR on being even passingly competent in Dust. That really shouldn't be the way of things, nor should it be necessary.
Here's hoping it gets fixed. Heh, as much as hoping has gotten anything fixed in Dust in the past.
PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION
Have a pony
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Valmar Shadereaver
The Exemplars Top Men.
32
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Posted - 2013.11.11 23:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
ccp cuild add the optoin to pick games where proto item's are locked and only advanced or bellow can be used and have the second mode being games where evrything is useable the upside of this wuild be if you wanne run standard gear or advanced you have no wories of protostomping the downside to this wuild be those that join the all items avaible mode will most likly be fighting 16proto enemy's whit 15 proto alies . . . did i say downside? wuildend that actualy make it more fun cause realy killing standards in proto makes me sad and bad for my enemy's then again i get my ass handed to me in my proto logi bye standard enemy's long live militia gear whit profiecency bonus i vote no more pasive bonus for militia items its frustrating my lvl3 weapon does less damage then a militia freebie from a veteran player so the way to fix proto stomping is 1) give optoin to go in prototype locked battle's (militia-standard-advanced only battle's public mode only) 2) make so matchmaking puts you whit ppl around your total sp (as it schuild be but isent atm) 3) make events that promote standard/advanced item usage's for rewards in wich 1 proto item wuild negate the counting of the event markers |
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