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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
232
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Posted - 2013.11.03 07:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Do you mean -25% recharge rate or +25% recharge delay for heavy extenders? Because if they give that much ehp plus reduce the delay (ie shorten the time until your recharge starts) then woos those things are WAY OP.
Also I think increasing the delay by 25% per module is too much. With just 3 heavy extenders (Pro) you have nearly doubled the delay before recharge starts. Thinking one would still prefer armor because the movement speed loss means little.
But you could conceivably have more ehp than armor tankers as you would not need a repper but armor repping would probably surpass shields since it starts instantly plus has multiple ways to repair.
However it's a very good idea as shield regulators once again would have a use. Plus the Assault class bonus would rock as would the Caldari logi bonus both of which would mitigate the delay. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
233
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Posted - 2013.11.03 12:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
God I love shield vs armor debates, seriously these are the best threads. But to business.
To the guy above me (won't quote you as you're post is large).
Your forgetting that there are other mods out there that you are just casually casting off. Range amplifiers, precision enhancers are also high slots, dampeners in the lows. Hacking mods. I realize talking pure tank they are of little note, but as are kinetic catalyzers and less so cardiac regulators (speed tanking died with AA and scanners).
This really only leaves PG/CPU upgrades that shields have over armor, but damage mods kind of moot those. Both can dual tank, just means more to shields because shields suck (ehp per tier wise) so armor doesn't even waste a slot on 22 hp. With the OP changes one might consider it.
In your Assault comparison of course it's going to favor shields, the Assault suit bonus is shield oriented (needs fixed to like extra ammo or something). Thus the Caldari gets double bonus. Do the same with Logis, scouts, heavies and you will find a very different answer.
Plus you use complex shields vs enhanced plates (this may be for fitting reasons but take out a damage mod if you must.) You simply cast off the fact that an armor tanker is now dealing much more damage.
Also while you lump both shields and armor into ehp you do not consider shield regen for the armor tanker. In seems small but is at least 100 hp that will regenerate faster than a shield tankers shields. So it's not simply a regen rate of +12. Meaning from depletion it gets more advantage than what you post. In 11 seconds the armor tanker has regened 232 hp, i think Gal regen is 7 secs but may be wrong. All this before the shield guy has even started. To make that up you're talking an extra 11 secs until the shield assault surpasses armor assault. Way longer for Logis. 22 secs is an infinity for shield tankers to catch up.
There's more but this post is already huge. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
236
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
To Wyrmspire,
Shields are more versatile, however shield tankers would much rather have some tanking ability which they do not have now. Honestly some of the mods need put in highs like shields hacking mods, maybe range amplifiers or dampeners, plus PG or CPU mods. It's a very big opportunity cost with shields because you cannot equip all those things, and shield tankers would happily give some of these mods up.
While I do downplay biotics more than I probably should one must admit they do not have the weight that they once did. Finding a build where they actually make a difference in a fight is difficult.
You discount armor tankers 150 ehp from shields, I know it seems small but that accounts to nearly 5 secs of a shield tankers regen (assault). Plus for 6 seconds (Gal 25 pt shield regen) a Gal Assault is regening 37.5 hp per sec (25 shield + 12.5 armor). So they get a 7/10 head start where they are just regening armor, then an extra 6 secs where their regen is still higher than shield tankers. So that means it's 13/16 secs until the Cal can even START closing the gap. That's huge in a fight. Shields tankers do not have the inherent armor rep unless they are logi but then shield regen is much lower.
I did not forget the shield regulator, though I do not include the skill bonus. 3 heavy Extenders (+0.25+0.25+0.25 delay)=0.75. One Regulator only takes one of those away (actually it's -0.275 because of skill bonus). So that means if multiply 8*(1.25*1.25*1.25*0.725)=11.328secs. I was one second off (your number was accurate).
However, armor reps get 6.25 per (5*1.25 from skill) so their rep is actually 12.5. It's very small change I know but it does make a slight difference. And again armor gets multiple ways to heal (throw a triage hive into the equation and bam unrivaled regen rate at ALL times.) The extra mobility just isn't worth it.
The points about versatility are completely valid but versatility does not equal tanking ability. And right now tanking ability is king. And take today's shield mods vs armor mods and laugh at the huge disparity. Let's get some balance between versatility/tanking on both sides. |
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