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![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6806
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Posted - 2013.10.30 07:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Defend orders on other players is just an easy way to get free extra WP, and you don't actually have to defend the player; in practice I've never seen anyone defending the player who has the defend order on them. If the ability to place defend orders on players was removed, then people will actually place orders on things like objectives and CRUs, and actually defend things. The dominant strategy is always to set the defend order on a squadmate, because it generates free WP, which then makes getting precision strikes easier.
The more favorable alternative is to make defend orders not give extra points to the player, but instead give bonus WP for actions to squadmates near the defend target; would incentivize the squad to actually defend the defend target, instead of getting free WP from the target's actions. This should not only apply to players as defend targets, but also for objectives and installations.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
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![Cosgar Cosgar](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Cosgar
ParagonX
6830
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Posted - 2013.10.30 07:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm +1ing this so hard right now.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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![DeathwindRising DeathwindRising](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
DeathwindRising
Rogue Spades EoN.
113
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Posted - 2013.10.30 08:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
agree 100% |
![Keri Starlight Keri Starlight](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_caldari_128.jpg)
Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1622
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Posted - 2013.10.30 08:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
This man speaks the truth!
-Caldari Achura - One with the Universe
-Tac AR Specialist
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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![Blake Kingston Blake Kingston](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
138
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Posted - 2013.10.30 09:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's probably a better way around for it. |
![Repe Susi Repe Susi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Repe Susi
Rautaleijona Top Men.
733
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Posted - 2013.10.30 09:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Agreed.
This would also help with the squad cohesion.
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![Levithunder Levithunder](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Levithunder
Butt Hurt Try Hards
121
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Posted - 2013.10.30 09:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'm +1ing this so hard right now. Agree
(-í° -£-û -í°) Nerf Me If You Dare.
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![CLONE117 CLONE117](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
438
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
good suggestion.
it means that the squad leader wouldnt have to put up with all the nagging for squad orders on their squad members. |
![Jadu Wen Jadu Wen](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
26
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Very good suggestion. You have my +1.
GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûäGûæGûÆGûê
GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê
GûÆGûêGûäGûÇGûäGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûäGûä GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÇGûê ? SoonGäó
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![Olomo Daygon Olomo Daygon](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Olomo Daygon
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
6
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
How could you make the "Defend" order more effective? -Placing a virtual ring around the defend target. this ring would increase the WP of team mates within the circle. ??
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![ALPHA DECRIPTER ALPHA DECRIPTER](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
ALPHA DECRIPTER
Dragon-Empire
600
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Replacing free points with tactics? Me likes ![Cool](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_cool.png)
Choose Your Difficulty
[Driver] - [Assault] - [Logistics] - [Tanker] - [Pilot] - [Heavy] >[Scout]<
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![Django Quik Django Quik](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1681
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah, I made a similar thread a while back but my fix was to stop squad orders being placed on people. I like your solution better.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6871
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Posted - 2013.11.02 04:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Still sucks
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
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![gbrngfol gbrngfol](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
gbrngfol
The12DragonsClan
2
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Posted - 2013.11.02 04:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Maybe we could even see someone using a capture or attack order for once.
Wait, so I'm the only one who prefers using these over defense orders? I feel weird now. |
![low genius low genius](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
811
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Posted - 2013.11.02 07:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
rally.
if there's no reward for a command it needs to be considered incomplete in concept. |
![Vyzion Eyri Vyzion Eyri](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1716
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Posted - 2013.11.02 07:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Only if they make it more intuitive to select targets for orders in-game.
It's not just that defend orders give the most WP, it's that selecting targets on the fly, half way across the map, or setting accurate rally points, is nigh on impossible.
> "I will show you fear in a handful of dust."
T.S. Eliot, The Wasteland
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![shady merc shady merc](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
shady merc
RisingSuns Public Disorder.
23
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Posted - 2013.11.03 18:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Currently for a squad with mic these orders are nothing more then free points. I say let's stop the the ability to target players and display these orders to the entire team.
Example lets say there are 3 squads on the one team. If I am looking at the map I would see my squads defend order in blue on obj A . Squad 2 has a yellow attack order on obj B squad 3 has a green rally point setup for flanking the cru near obj B.
I think this would give usefulness to the squad orders as well as bring more team play into the match
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![Yagihige Yagihige](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
393
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Posted - 2013.11.03 18:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
I agree with the solution, it would only make sense because it would finally make the order be about defending the player, which doesn't happen at all in the current state.
Btw, i would add that the orders placed on installations/objectives should be made more permanent so it would promote squad leaders to use those. As it stands, when you place a capture order or a defend order on an objective it just disappears after you do it and that doesn't promote people to place those orders.
I would suggest that orders placed on objectives could automatically change from capture to defend and viceversa.
em ta kool t'nod
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![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3599
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Posted - 2013.11.03 19:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Agree. I'd much prefer Squad Leads get commission from doing stuff near their own defend order than arbitrarily setting it to a tank and generating massive amounts of WP from killing installations with two gunners.
Really silly, imo
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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![SickJ SickJ](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
SickJ
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
113
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Posted - 2013.11.03 19:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
I try to use the defend order as shorthand for 'this guy has an expensive suit/vehicle, don't let him get killed', but more often I just put it on a random squadmate. |
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![I-Shayz-I I-Shayz-I](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_minmatar_128.jpg)
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1222
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Posted - 2013.11.03 19:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
I agree, but I feel that most people don't realize how effective the defend order is.
See, as long as you are x meters away from the defend order, you will get bonus wp. If your whole squad is nearby, everyone is getting that defend order bonus, not just the guy with the order.
The other thing that sucks is that the other orders don't give you the area of effect bonus that defend orders do. Attack orders only give you bonus if you kill that enemy, or hack that object. Even then, the bonus is still the same, so attack orders take more time and effort for the same thing that you can do more easily with defend orders.
Instead, orders should be able to work like rally points where you can put them anywhere and not have to have a lock on someone or something. However, these areas of effect won't give you as many points as when you put them on specific things that relate to both defending and attacking.
Finally, we need to differentiate between defending and attacking. An attack order should give you more points for destructions, hacking etc. A defend order should give more points for support actions. Both orders would give points for killing things within an area though, but not as much as the other two.
-For instance, a revive gives you 60 points, a revive with a defend order nearby gives you 78 points (30% bonus). A kill with a defend order nearby gives you 55 points (10% bonus), a kill nearby an objective/installation with a defend order ON IT gives you 60 points (20% bonus) -A tank destruction gives you 150 points, blowing it up with an attack order ON IT gives you 195 points (30% bonus) Destroying that same tank with the attack order nearby only gives 180 points (20% bonus). A kill with an attack order nearby gives you 60 points (20% bonus). Hacking an objective with the attack order ON IT gives 130 points (30% bonus), hacking with the attack order nearby gives 110 points (10% bonus).
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos! (Insert future link here)
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![Skihids Skihids](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2386
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Posted - 2013.11.03 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Defend orders generate more bonus points.
I put a capture order on the point in domination and received 20 points.
If it was a defend order and there was a battle I probably would have doubled that easily. |
![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6937
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Posted - 2013.11.07 04:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Still sucks
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads Gû¦Gû+
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![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6979
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Posted - 2013.11.09 05:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Still sucks What he said
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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![Thurak1 Thurak1](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
370
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Posted - 2013.11.09 05:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
I gotta admit the OP is correct. When i am lead i generally stick the defend order on a tank to try soaking up as many wp's as i can. |
![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
6986
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2013.11.10 00:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Do it
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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![Verek Locusti Verek Locusti](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Verek Locusti
Closed For Business For All Mankind
10
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Posted - 2013.11.10 00:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
+1 |
![KEROSIINI-TERO KEROSIINI-TERO](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
801
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Posted - 2013.11.10 05:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Defend orders on other players is just an easy way to get free extra WP, and you don't actually have to defend the player; in practice I've never seen anyone defending the player who has the defend order on them. If the ability to place defend orders on players was removed, then people will actually place orders on things like objectives and CRUs, and actually defend things. The dominant strategy is always to set the defend order on a squadmate, because it generates free WP, which then makes getting precision strikes easier.
The more favorable alternative is to make defend orders not give extra points to the player, but instead give bonus WP for actions to squadmates near the defend target; would incentivize the squad to actually defend the defend target, instead of getting free WP from the target's actions. This should not only apply to players as defend targets, but also for objectives and installations.
Maybe we could even see someone using a capture or attack order for once.
Hmm. There's no reason to get blinded by just the term 'defend'. I see the current defend order on player just the same as a 'Follow' order.
Introducing a new type of follow order to dust would be plain stupid. In fact, CCP should get rid of unnecessary ones.
For example, leader deems objective Alpha worthwile. He sets attack order on it. The team does it's job, and after long fight A is captured. Suddenly, the order and the value of Null cannon Alpha disappears: the attack order vanishes and is NOT replaced by a defend order.
It is, honestly, stupid to have the functionality to mark the object of interest as an order target, but to force the leader to pre-choose the type of order to set: In order set order on blue object, you have to select Defend, all others fail. In order to capture a red objective, you have to select Capture, all others fail. In order to flag a red target, you have to select Destroy, all others fail.
So that's why it is stupid as all of them have the same functionality, just choose a entity and order should be there. Now someone might say that there are different order types in order to set the right order on right target in case there are many in close proximity. That argument is invalid, because: trying to set an invalid target the game lets you but informs you about it and actually does nothing - but also resetting your order setting process!!!
Sorry CCP but that is bad design. |
![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7050
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Do it
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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![Draco Cerberus Draco Cerberus](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
497
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Posted - 2013.11.14 01:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
I suggest that we add additional functionality to the current system. When a general in an army gives orders he will normally give several. I see the ability to assign multiple orders, up to 3, as something that should be added. If we assign a target to attack and a merc to defend (the person hacking) and an incoming enemy tank/LAV to destroy why should one order replace the other? They shouldn't IMO, and could be stacked, one per type on one target for each type.
One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!
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![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7586
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Still a problem
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9445
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Posted - 2014.02.20 15:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Still sucks
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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![KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9976
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Posted - 2014.03.17 22:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Got 99 problems, many of which include the squad orders.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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![deepfried salad gilliam deepfried salad gilliam](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
531
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Posted - 2014.03.18 03:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
along with marking targets from the map
module poll
stuff for alts
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