DUST Search - Pilot suit - Sidearm only, Extra Equipment Slot

Samuel Zelik wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Samuel Zelik wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Samuel Zelik wrote:

A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too.

That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one.
But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included.

The way I interpret the Pilot role is being dedicated to using vehicles. The point at which a Pilot can both drop uplinks and rep or drop uplinks and active scan detracts from the uniqueness of how the Scout role should function.

So, just because another suit of the same frame can do the exact same thing you can, that's a bad thing? That's like a logistics complaining about an assault that carries equipment.

I never said it was a bad thing, I'm merely stating that it takes away from another role and to an extent, steps outside the boundaries of what the Pilot role should be.

Logis can do the job of about every other Dropsuit. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. Does it detract from the value of having those other roles? Yes. What's the benefit of being a Scout if I can just use a Logi? What's the benefit of being a Scout if a Pilot can use the same equipment (something very important to Scouts) AND gives bonuses to the vehicles? The Pilot suit would essentially take away half of the Scout's unique function and role on the battlefield.

I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

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Sargon Akkadi Ordus Trismegistus 9	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:37:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not sure this has been discussed before, but rather than making a pilot suit "weapon optional" make it a sidearm only suit. I would also vote for the 2nd equipment slot on such a suit. Or racial variants (e.b. Minnie with 2 sidearms, Gal. with extra equipment). Pilots could still arm with SMGs, Scrambler Pistols, Nova Knives, and Flaylocks. What can I say, I miss my Scout IIs and I'm a scrambler pistol guy at heart. Also finally getting the hang of the ADS. Just in time, huh?
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 75	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:01:00 - [2] - Quote A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too.
Cosgar ParagonX 6817	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:04:00 - [3] - Quote Samuel Zelik wrote: A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too. That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one. But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Jadu Wen Xer Cloud Consortium 17	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:12:00 - [4] - Quote Well if you want to talk about Pilot Weapons, CCP had once discussed the possibility of an Basic Auto-Detonator 'At the moment of death this unit triggers a small explosive powerful enough to kill any infantry unit nearby.' If you're going to die regardless if exiting the vehicle why on go out with a bang, GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûäGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûÇGûäGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûäGûä GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÇGûê ? SoonGäó
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 455	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:22:00 - [5] - Quote Sargon Akkadi wrote: I'm not sure this has been discussed before, but rather than making a pilot suit "weapon optional" make it a sidearm only suit. In RL, pilots only carry pistols. +1 "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 75	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:24:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too. That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one. But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included. The way I interpret the Pilot role is being dedicated to using vehicles. The point at which a Pilot can both drop uplinks and rep or drop uplinks and active scan detracts from the uniqueness of how the Scout role should function.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 365	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:35:00 - [7] - Quote as someone else mentioned, vehicles already can scan, can spawn units, ect I don't think the pilot needs more than one equipment slot for a repper and that is about it. Below db 28
Cosgar ParagonX 6818	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:38:00 - [8] - Quote Samuel Zelik wrote: Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too. That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one. But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included. The way I interpret the Pilot role is being dedicated to using vehicles. The point at which a Pilot can both drop uplinks and rep or drop uplinks and active scan detracts from the uniqueness of how the Scout role should function. So, just because another suit of the same frame can do the exact same thing you can, that's a bad thing? That's like a logistics complaining about an assault that carries equipment. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 77	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:56:00 - [9] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too. That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one. But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included. The way I interpret the Pilot role is being dedicated to using vehicles. The point at which a Pilot can both drop uplinks and rep or drop uplinks and active scan detracts from the uniqueness of how the Scout role should function. So, just because another suit of the same frame can do the exact same thing you can, that's a bad thing? That's like a logistics complaining about an assault that carries equipment. I never said it was a bad thing, I'm merely stating that it takes away from another role and to an extent, steps outside the boundaries of what the Pilot role should be. Logis can do the job of about every other Dropsuit. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. Does it detract from the value of having those other roles? Yes. What's the benefit of being a Scout if I can just use a Logi? What's the benefit of being a Scout if a Pilot can use the same equipment (something very important to Scouts) AND gives bonuses to the vehicles? The Pilot suit would essentially take away half of the Scout's unique function and role on the battlefield.
Cosgar ParagonX 6822	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:00:00 - [10] - Quote Samuel Zelik wrote: Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too. That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one. But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included. The way I interpret the Pilot role is being dedicated to using vehicles. The point at which a Pilot can both drop uplinks and rep or drop uplinks and active scan detracts from the uniqueness of how the Scout role should function. So, just because another suit of the same frame can do the exact same thing you can, that's a bad thing? That's like a logistics complaining about an assault that carries equipment. I never said it was a bad thing, I'm merely stating that it takes away from another role and to an extent, steps outside the boundaries of what the Pilot role should be. Logis can do the job of about every other Dropsuit. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. Does it detract from the value of having those other roles? Yes. What's the benefit of being a Scout if I can just use a Logi? What's the benefit of being a Scout if a Pilot can use the same equipment (something very important to Scouts) AND gives bonuses to the vehicles? The Pilot suit would essentially take away half of the Scout's unique function and role on the battlefield. It's just a second slot. What if a dropship pilot wants to help a sniper out by laying an uplink and ammo for him on a building? I'm just saying that all light suits should get a second equipment slot and if a pilot suit (which is probably going to be squishier than a scout) is going to be limited to sidearms, he should at least get that extra utility that all the other light frames should get. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 367	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:01:00 - [11] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: Cosgar wrote: Samuel Zelik wrote: A racial Scout (or preferably all of them) rightfully deserves that extra equipment slot; Pilots have no business getting an extra equipment slot. I'm betting that one of the new racial Scouts will be like the old type-IIs; that also seems consensus among some others (I've heard some say the Amarr Scout will get the extra slot), too. That extra equipment slot could help an LAV driver with dropping uplinks while carrying a repper for their vehicle if they can't fit one. But I agree, all light frames should come with a second equipment slot, pilots included. The way I interpret the Pilot role is being dedicated to using vehicles. The point at which a Pilot can both drop uplinks and rep or drop uplinks and active scan detracts from the uniqueness of how the Scout role should function. So, just because another suit of the same frame can do the exact same thing you can, that's a bad thing? That's like a logistics complaining about an assault that carries equipment. Coming from the logi who can play the lite version of every role, niche functions do serve its purpose if everything was made versatile then the most versatile suit is literally the best suit, where as niche functions make multiple suits necessary. Racials alone aren't enough to differentiated, that is literally just one free mod or bonus, suit slot layouts matter as well. Edit: Also the only two real scout light weapons are shotguns and snipers, if the pilot suit is just a sidearm scout then even I would make the jump because it is a scout plus a lot more. The transition to the pilots scout lite to vehicles is a lot better than a pilot plus shotgun/sniper. Also you can't get much squishier than a scout. Below db 28
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 78	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:16:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: It's just a second slot. What if a dropship pilot wants to help a sniper out by laying an uplink and ammo for him on a building? I'm just saying that all light suits should get a second equipment slot and if a pilot suit (which is probably going to be squishier than a scout) is going to be limited to sidearms, he should at least get that extra utility that all the other light frames should get. The thing is, it's not just a second slot; slots define Dropsuits. The Heavy weapon slot and lack of the equipment slot for the Sentinal defines its role; the two Light weapon slots and equipment slot on a Commando define its role. I'm not sure of any Sniper who carries something other than a Drop Uplink or Ammo as equipment... maybe the occasional Scanner. Either way, if there's anyone in the Dropship besides Heavies, they'll probably have something. Otherwise, snipers tend to carry their own ammo, so the Pilot would only need the uplinks. All light frames should not get an extra equipment slot; that's similar to saying all medium frames should get the same number of equipment slots, or all heavy frames should get the same number of equipment slots. There are factors which define roles with each frame category, equipment slots being one of them (as mentioned before). The Pilot's extra utility is he gives bonuses to vehicles. There's very little reason for a Pilot doing his job to leave his vehicle, but if he does, his role should be to support his own or another's vehicle, not step into the shoes of a Scout or psuedo-Logi.
Sargon Akkadi Ordus Trismegistus 10	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:21:00 - [13] - Quote Regarding Pilot vs. Scout roles. I would expect this Pilot suit to make a good "wheelman". Particularly a Minnie suit with 2 sidearm slots, able to jump out and harass, or provide quick support to an exposed fireteam. In the described version, the Gal. pilot could serve a small logistics role as others have cited. Presumably bonuses would be different (e.g. no profile dampening) but I am not ready to comment on what those would be. My main point is a sidearm only Light suit for the Pilots.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 79	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:28:00 - [14] - Quote Sargon Akkadi wrote: Regarding Pilot vs. Scout roles. I would expect this Pilot suit to make a good "wheelman". Particularly a Minnie suit with 2 sidearm slots, able to jump out and harass, or provide quick support to an exposed fireteam. In the described version, the Gal. pilot could serve a small logistics role as others have cited. Presumably bonuses would be different (e.g. no profile dampening) but I am not ready to comment on what those would be. My main point is a sidearm only Light suit for the Pilots. Yeah, I agree to the sidearm only for Pilots. Wouldn't be against a dual-wielding sidearm Pilot, but it'd either have to sac the equipment slot or some modules for it (as compared to the other racial Pilots, which presumably get a base of 1 sidearm and 1 equipment slot).
Sargon Akkadi Ordus Trismegistus 12	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:02:00 - [15] - Quote Other racial Pilots are hard to plan without understanding for sure how the other racial Lights would be. In and of itself, 2 sidearms and 1 equipment is not OP vs. the existing Light frames, as they currently have 1 Light + 1 Sidearm + 1 Equipment. However, it obviously needs to take in to account the other variables (HP, Fitting, Modules, Speed) and the Pilot suit and Racial bonuses. They have tuned that part of the Medium suits relatively well at this point. (That point may be arguable!) I doubt we will see the Pilot suit until the 1.7 Vehicle changes have seen the light of day. I bring this up as I think that making a sidearm only suit makes sense to me for the Pilot and helps to differentiate it from the Scout and the Basic Light frames beyond just the Suit and Racial bonus. I haven't seen any who hate the idea yet. I was expecting to defend how I thought sidearm-only would be at all capable on the field. I guess those SMG-only Lights and Scouts have paved the way on basic effectiveness, and that we generally expect that the Pilot suit should be neither completely incapable nor optimal for most roles outside of the vehicle role.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3562	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:25:00 - [16] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Sargon Akkadi wrote: I'm not sure this has been discussed before, but rather than making a pilot suit "weapon optional" make it a sidearm only suit. In RL, pilots only carry pistols. +1 That's so they can 'opt out' of being a PoW. /sarcasm ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Lanius Pulvis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:58:00 - [17] - Quote Yeshua Saliot has some good suggestions for pilot dropsuits, I think the direction he goes with it is on the right track. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=935374#post935374 Not new, just new to you.
Sargon Akkadi Ordus Trismegistus 13	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:30:00 - [18] - Quote Well he agrees with the sidearm slot, so it has been brought up before. I think the changes needed for that version of the Pilot suit are significant due to the need for all new specialized modules. While not necessarily against it, I would think that would inherently be a longer term feature. Use of equipment, regular modules, grenades and the equipped sidearm would mean that the suit can still operate outside of the vehicle (to drop equipment, support fireteams, repair vehicle damage... even calling in the vehicle and boarding it are field actions), but do not significantly outdo the Light or Scout suits due to no Light weapon slot. I have thought before that it would be cool if the suit passive scan modules and skills affected the vehicle passive scan. That is when you "plug-in" it uses the suits or modules advanced electronics. I have also thought that the Pilot suit or one of the racial bonuses could be related to passive scan on the vehicles. I haven't fleshed that out, yet, so I don't have real suggestions to make on bonuses.


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