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Ulysses Knapse
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
545
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Posted - 2013.10.29 10:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, I love Dust 514, but some parts of it are just insane. The slot count of dropsuits happens to be one of those parts. First, I'm going to show you the numbers. The problem should speak for itself.
Prototype Gallente Assault Slots: -3 High -4 Low
Prototype Amarr Assault Slots: -3 High -3 Low
Prototype Amarr Sentinel Slots: -1 High -4 Low
Prototype Amarr Commando Slots: -2 High -1 Low
...Yeah. Gallente Assault gets 7 general-purpose slots, Amarr Assault gets 6, Amarr Sentinel gets 5 (and loses an equipment slot) and Amarr Commando gets 3. That kind of discrepancy is pretty bad.
The Amarr Commando gets 130 more base HP than the Gallente Assault, and can carry a second Light Weapon, but it's also 20% slower (3.95m/s compared to 5.00m/s), presents a much larger target, has four fewer module slots, and the Gallente Assault still has the same number of weapons available, even if the weapon in question is a sidearm. It's not just the Commando that's hurt by this, but it certainly is the most affected by the problem. Something needs to be done about this. For the love of all that is holy, something needs to be done about this.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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dogmanpig
black market bank
25
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Posted - 2013.10.29 10:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
*looks at update 1.6* right....
*laughs and walks away*
You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way.
Level 7 1/3 Forum alt.
"Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
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Ulysses Knapse
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
545
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Posted - 2013.10.29 11:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
dogmanpig wrote:*looks at update 1.6* right....
*laughs and walks away* Yeah, sure. 150 more HP. That's a good start. I'll be waiting for them to realize that it isn't enough.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
543
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Posted - 2013.10.29 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
It is not about the number of slots...but how you use them ;) |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6774
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nerf the assaults, they're better slayers because they have more slots.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Ulysses Knapse
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
546
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Posted - 2013.10.29 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
RydogV wrote:It is not about the number of slots...but how you use them ;) The way you say it makes it sound like it's possible to effectively use such a low number. Standard Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot alone. Advanced Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot and 1 Low Slot. Prototype Commando dropsuits get 2 High Slots and 1 Low Slot. That's most definitely not enough to use effectively.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2013.10.29 22:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:RydogV wrote:It is not about the number of slots...but how you use them ;) The way you say it makes it sound like it's possible to effectively use such a low number. Standard Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot alone. Advanced Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot and 1 Low Slot. Prototype Commando dropsuits get 2 High Slots and 1 Low Slot. That's most definitely not enough to use effectively.
What you say makes since and it's something that I have ALWAYS wondered . When I think of a commando , I go back to the movie with ARNOLD , when he was carrying basically everything in a arsenal that could be carried . So I always figured along with those two weapon slots that they would have an side arm and a grenade slot to go along with the equipment slot . And they should have at least two high slots and two low slots because if anyone should be able to cop a squat and recharge , like people do when I'm sniping them , it should be them . They should be some of the toughest to encounter on the game .
" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1146
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Posted - 2013.10.29 22:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
-Hopping in real quick to point out that the bonus to the only (Current) Commando suit is a 5% bonus to Shield + Armor Module effectiveness. Not a lot, but at least it's helping you milk the most out of your few modules.
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
672
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Posted - 2013.10.29 22:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
High slot amounts usually comes with bad base stats. So really all that a lot of slots does is increase versatility. I'm not sure that heavies are supposed to be too versatile, and commandos get versatility in the form of two light weapons.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
672
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Posted - 2013.10.29 22:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:RydogV wrote:It is not about the number of slots...but how you use them ;) The way you say it makes it sound like it's possible to effectively use such a low number. Standard Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot alone. Advanced Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot and 1 Low Slot. Prototype Commando dropsuits get 2 High Slots and 1 Low Slot. That's most definitely not enough to use effectively. What you say makes since and it's something that I have ALWAYS wondered . When I think of a commando , I go back to the movie with ARNOLD , when he was carrying basically everything in a arsenal that could be carried . So I always figured along with those two weapon slots that they would have an side arm and a grenade slot to go along with the equipment slot . And they should have at least two high slots and two low slots because if anyone should be able to cop a squat and recharge , like people do when I'm sniping them , it should be them . They should be some of the toughest to encounter on the game . "Commandos should be OP, because Arnold Schwarzenegger was a commando in that one movie one time". That's your argument? Really?
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
545
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Posted - 2013.10.29 23:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:RydogV wrote:It is not about the number of slots...but how you use them ;) The way you say it makes it sound like it's possible to effectively use such a low number. Standard Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot alone. Advanced Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot and 1 Low Slot. Prototype Commando dropsuits get 2 High Slots and 1 Low Slot. That's most definitely not enough to use effectively.
Well I will agree that the Commando needed a little help, and it is getting it with the Armor/Shield buff. So now you are looking at a base HP of 650, not including any additional HP from the inherent bonus in Armor and Shield core skills.
In my eyes, the Commando suit is offensive in nature with a focus on weapon diversity. So it is basically a beefed up Assault role with a speed handicap. Most Assault players use their high/low slots for tanking, something the Commando should not have to focus on early on. Instead you can enhance weapon performance, add speed/stamina or incorporate armor repair. If you feel the need to be beefier then higher tier suits can use the slots for added defense.
Everything looks pretty viable to me. Not sure what you really expect to do with more slots besides make the thing a juggernaut. What is the fun in that?
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
184
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Posted - 2013.10.30 00:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
OP should look at logi slot counts. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6808
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Posted - 2013.10.30 00:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:OP should look at logi slot counts. You should look at logi base HP and stats compared to their assault counterparts.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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abarkrishna
The Elysian Knights
27
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Posted - 2013.10.30 02:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
If all the suits were the same there would be no incentive to play as other races/ or classes.
Don't like the stats your suits have?
Maybe you should have thought about that when deciding what race and class to skill into.
So basically your complaining because you didn't read all options thoroughly and in turn made an uninformed decision based on the acquired information.
It's like none of you have brains.
Oh that guys suit is better than mine IT must be nerfed!!!!
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Ulysses Knapse
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
548
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Posted - 2013.10.30 07:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:And, reading an earlier post, I see that you've never seen the Commando. At Standard, it has 0, I'll repeat, ZERO modules whatsoever besides 2 light weapons and an equipment. Eh? Seriously? My memory is getting bad, then, since I've used the Standard Commando myself quite often, and even specced into the Proto Commando.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1628
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Posted - 2013.10.30 07:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Never underestimate the double light weapon combo. A big reason people die on logistics suits or assault suits is because they get themselves in a situation where their light weapon is ineffective (CQC with a mass driver, downhill with a mass driver, long range with an AR, CQC with a sniper) and where their sidearm simply cannot outperform the light weapon of their attacker.
The commando has no such problems. Example: CQC is one of the most chaotic situations where both sides are hopping around like mad, and if you're stuck with an AR or an MD, most likely you will take more damage than if you could simply switch to a shotgun and blow the other party's face off. If you kill someone with that shotgun before they can deal another 66 damage to you, that's saving yourself from needing a complex shield extender.
Not to mention that the biggest problem people have with modules is that TTK doesn't really change much with or without them. I've seen the threads everywhere about TTK being too low. This is from people in prototype suits complaining they're melted by Exile ARs and the like too quickly.
So what IS the problem with commandos? I really doubt its HP, and module slots are mainly for upping HP. Also, it is unwise to underestimate the HP buff; it's a significant increase and combined with the logistics, I can see the commando/logibro combo becoming a very deadly, very mobile duo.
Commando runs a SG + AR, logibro runs a laser rifle, repair tool (which are also being buffed), nanohives and a scanner. Laser rifle + AR will demolish anything at medium range, and if enemies get too close whip out the shotgun.
Or the MD + AR, with the logibro running an MD too. Ridiculous.
Where the Sentinel is geared towards point defense, I can see the Commandobro duo becoming point assault. People are just not aware of its potential yet.
> "I will show you fear in a handful of dust."
T.S. Eliot, The Wasteland
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Ulysses Knapse
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
548
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Posted - 2013.10.30 07:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Never underestimate the double light weapon combo. A big reason people die on logistics suits or assault suits is because they get themselves in a situation where their light weapon is ineffective (CQC with a mass driver, downhill with a mass driver, long range with an AR, CQC with a sniper) and where their sidearm simply cannot outperform the light weapon of their attacker.
The commando has no such problems. Example: CQC is one of the most chaotic situations where both sides are hopping around like mad, and if you're stuck with an AR or an MD, most likely you will take more damage than if you could simply switch to a shotgun and blow the other party's face off. If you kill someone with that shotgun before they can deal another 66 damage to you, that's saving yourself from needing a complex shield extender.
Not to mention that the biggest problem people have with modules is that TTK doesn't really change much with or without them. I've seen the threads everywhere about TTK being too low. This is from people in prototype suits complaining they're melted by Exile ARs and the like too quickly.
So what IS the problem with commandos? I really doubt its HP, and module slots are mainly for upping HP. Also, it is unwise to underestimate the HP buff; it's a significant increase and combined with the logistics, I can see the commando/logibro combo becoming a very deadly, very mobile duo.
Commando runs a SG + AR, logibro runs a laser rifle, repair tool (which are also being buffed), nanohives and a scanner. Laser rifle + AR will demolish anything at medium range, and if enemies get too close whip out the shotgun.
Or the MD + AR, with the logibro running an MD too. Ridiculous.
Where the Sentinel is geared towards point defense, I can see the Commandobro duo becoming point assault. People are just not aware of its potential yet. I still think that the slot discrepancy is bad. Why the difference in slots, anyway? All that does is make certain dropsuits less versatile.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
548
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Posted - 2013.10.30 11:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:If all the suits were the same there would be no incentive to play as other races/ or classes. I expect suits to be unique, of course, but they should still be equivalent. That's called balance.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Frost Kitty
Immortal Retribution
29
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:RydogV wrote:It is not about the number of slots...but how you use them ;) The way you say it makes it sound like it's possible to effectively use such a low number. Standard Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot alone. Advanced Commando dropsuits get 1 High Slot and 1 Low Slot. Prototype Commando dropsuits get 2 High Slots and 1 Low Slot. That's most definitely not enough to use effectively. The reason you Heavies don't get more Slots is because if you had more Slots, you would be almost as strong as a Vehicle. :P I already see Heavies having 1000+ Ehp. Isn't that enough? I do think Heavies need a Buff but not an Armor or Shield Buff. Maybe increase their Speed? Add a little Damage Resistance Per a Level? How about 3% or 5% Damage Resistance Per Level? Oh and I also don't think the Hmg needs a Damage Buff. A Range Buff would be reasonable but that thing in CQC can shred my Dropsuit in one second... Which is how it should be as it is meant for that.
"If youGÇÖre not remembered, then you never existed."
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1152
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Posted - 2013.10.30 20:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Earlier someone noted that the Commando is a highly offensive role, I didn't feel like quoting him to tell him that it is defensive. It's meant to take and hold positions, create choke points, and basically keep itself safe. While IT CAN be offensive, and IT CAN support it's squad, it's a suit focused more on area defense. And that isn't the same as squad defense. As long as you are keeping yourself alive and your area secure you're fine. Even when sniping, a Shotgun on your back can keep the area clear of anyone who wants to sneak up on your sniping spot.
Like in my earlier post, I held a position BY MYSELF, despite having to watch 3 different directions and having a tank and 5-6 other enemies focused on me. I was able to rain down bullets even on an enemy location by making sure no one made it to my position. If they did, they died instantly thanks to my Shotgun. And I can't count the number of times I kept my squad safe by not letting anything through a doorway without dying.
Defense is how the Commando works. While it lacks in health compared to other heavies, it makes up for in versatility on the field and the ability to hold an objective MUCH longer than a heavy. Read my signature, I know what I'm talking about. :)
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2013.10.30 21:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:-Hopping in real quick to point out that the bonus to the only (Current) Commando suit is a 5% bonus to Shield + Armor Module effectiveness. Not a lot, but at least it's helping you milk the most out of your few modules.
And, reading an earlier post, I see that you've never seen the Commando. At Standard, it has 0, I'll repeat, ZERO modules whatsoever besides 2 light weapons and an equipment. That doesn't stop me from killing everything. If you need confirmation of how good I am with it, ask xXWarlordXx96. We were playing together one time while I was running Commando.
Match 1: 17/1. I was backed into an area alone where I had to defend myself against pretty much a squad's worth of people. I killed them with my AR, and then if one somehow managed to get past me and got closer, I shotgunned them. But, none made it past me. My only death was a sniper at the VERY end of the match, after I had escaped the corner I was in and was in a defensive firefight.
Match 2: 20/5 (A rough estimate. At least 20 kills, at most 6 deaths). I had gotten myself to the top of a building that only had one entrance. I stood on top of it defending my position and saving teammate's lives while (At the same time) keeping an eye on the ladder up. If anyone got up, Shotgun to the chest. Actually stole a couple kills from Warlord on this match, at which point he continued to say "That's it, I'm petitioning CCP to nerf you".
Match 3: 6/0. Was actually a pretty quiet match. Not much to say about this one. :P
So yea. Pretty much the entire time, Warlord was saying to me, "Dude, stop killing people. You're probably the reason people are quitting the game. You're making people think it's good!". Before we got into the first match, he was pretty angry at me that I skilled into it at all. After, he was mad I stole his precious WP. >:)
(Match 1 also had a Gunnlogi with a blaster focused on me. If you need the exact area: Ring map, near Bravo under the rings, in the boxy place.)
I just wanted to chime in with a comment on that bonus;
2% per level to shield/armor module effectiveness
This means at MAX on a proto suit with 2 complex shield and 1 complex armor you get 29.37 HP....
Wasted bonus? Wasted bonus.
EDIT: Lets assume that it WAS 5% per level.... that would mean with a proto like above you would recieve an extra 73.425 HP. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1153
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ah, I had thought it was 5%.
2% is much worse.
You're also forgetting the fact that Armor Plating and Shield Extender bonuses DO give you a +5%, so that's even more extra. It's to all suits, but you know, survivability is survivability. And then the Armor Upgrades + Shield Upgrades skills give you +5% to base Armor and Shield, so that's even more. So yea.
Besides, even 3 HP is sometimes a lifesaver. After a firefight, you could have 29 armor left. That, mixed with the fact that to preserve your shield, you duck into cover after dealing a bit of damage, AND packing Compact Nanohives (Or Triage, depending on what you can fit), it increases survivability in a firefight even more. My Commando that ISN'T AV is as follows:
Assault Rifle (Standard) Shotgun (Standard) Compact Nanohive (50 HP/s)
Now looking at how well I do at defending positions and keeping myself alive, I'd say the survivability is fine. The problem is, people are comparing it to a Heavy. Compare it to a medium suit, because that's what it is. The only reason it's a Heavy is to add another role (Giving each frame 2 roles now), and logic. How could a Medium carry 2 Light Weapons? They can't. That's why we're using the Heavy's strength to do it. So yea. Also why is has 240 melee damage instead of the standard 150 for Heavies.
Also, could you please cut that quote a bit so you're not taking up so much space for no reason? I'm sure they've read that entire post, just quote the part that matters.
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
550
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:How could a Medium carry 2 Light Weapons? They can't. The Black Eagles suit could do it, and it was a scout!
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Negris Albedo
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
32
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Posted - 2013.11.23 13:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
+1. |
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