DUST Search - A non mentioned DUST514 issue : BAD MAP DESIGN

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

I belive part of the imbalance that has Dust 514 in its current situation is because of faulty MAP DESIGN.

What do i even mean with this?
well while playing BF3 yesterday i realized even if i was with randoms we could hold an objective because here were different strategic points, with defendable chokepoints.
Lest see some images from Operation Metro Map in BF3:
CHOKEPOINT
CHOKEPOINT

CHOKEPOINT

Multiple location Chokepoint

Now this kind of maps have defendable areas that can be effectivley protected (Like double entrance buildings with multiple windows to effectivley defend an area without having to BE in that area).So your team can defend the said objective from a height advantage without having to be all cluttered near said objective , BUT the enemy does have a chance to take it while using cover fire OR taking the defensive position.

As it is in DUST most infantry battles go like this=
Im out in the open

SH*T im out in the open again!

what is this COVER you speak of?

LOL whats a Choke point?

So not only Blueberries are thrown out into the wolves but they are thrown out to VERY open maps, with little to no cover.
Say:
GÇó Line Harvest: There REALLY is not way to cover an objective effectivley.There are no choke points, the enemy can come in from ANY side in D and C and all it takes is for the enemy to assemble and outnumber the defensive units and voila, 100% sucess 100% of the time. B can be Snipe-Covered pretty effectivley but all it takes is 2-3 guys taking it at the same time and voila, you lost B. Also ,can come from any direction.And same with A.

There is no STRATEGIC positioning! sure you can place yourself in that TABLE structure in the middle of the map, only to get sniped. Or on top of D and C, but you CANT effectivley cover the objectives from up there,an again you might be sniped.
You can go snipe Camp on top of the 4 towers,yeah but you arent really doing anything but stat padding...and so on.

So its no wonder in a map like this blue dots USUALLY get redlined.AFTER the enemy reinforced say, C & D, the blue dots DO NOT have an entry way back into the map,without having to face the wrath of Thales snipers, Roof Forgegunners, LR users in the hills , tanks protected by the roofs of C & etc...
You got a sucesful sneak? Yeah,....no...You have been scanned. Have fun with 8 dudes following you around.with Proto gear

This maps provide NO safe route BACK into the map. They dont provide MULTIPLE routes back into the fight. Usually only 1-2 that after a sucesful redline become heavily defended.They provide no effective way to turn the tables around, and EVEN if a whole team is at one of the objectives, there is no way to effectivley hold it since the enemy will keep coming, from ALL directions...

CCP needs to adress these issues with the maps, not only matchmaking is broken to hell BUT on top of that the maps are (where infantry is meant to fight) extremly open. You are prone to Dropship attacks, orbital strikes are 100% effective on ALMOST every area of a map; Usually being able to cover with OBs up to 3+ objectives,Enemy entry points are at a massive 3+ per objective, with the lack of defendable choke points being common,etc...

LEtts think of that ONE map with 3 objectives, ANOTHER redline favourite. WHY is it common for this map to end in redline?
Well=
GÖª All objectives are acessible from ALL sides.
GÖª 99% of the time you will be in a snipers sight
GÖª AV is very effective in this map making use of Vehicles for transport or for a counter offensive completley ridiculous idea.
GÖª Once the enemy is redlined they have literally 3 options: 1- take the longest route to the most far away obj, pray you dont get sniped in the way or scanned. 2- Go straight through. LOL 3- Use the mountain area behind C. So you either suicide straight up. Go to C, where there will b at least 3-4 dudes protecting it, and if now while you are taking it they will run from B to C in 10 seconds, Or go take the long route and get sniped to death.

Not to mention maps are usually broken in favor of Vehicles (line Harvest ) or AV infantry (the 3 obj one, manus peak? )

Just saying this maps are NOT newberrie friendly...


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gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 3789	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:05:00 - [1] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I belive part of the imbalance that has Dust 514 in its current situation is because of faulty MAP DESIGN. What do i even mean with this? well while playing BF3 yesterday i realized even if i was with randoms we could hold an objective because here were different strategic points, with defendable chokepoints. Lest see some images from Operation Metro Map in BF3: CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT CHOKEPOINT Multiple location Chokepoint Now this kind of maps have defendable areas that can be effectivley protected (Like double entrance buildings with multiple windows to effectivley defend an area without having to BE in that area).So your team can defend the said objective from a height advantage without having to be all cluttered near said objective , BUT the enemy does have a chance to take it while using cover fire OR taking the defensive position. As it is in DUST most infantry battles go like this= Im out in the open SHT im out in the open again! what is this COVER you speak of? LOL whats a Choke point? So not only Blueberries are thrown out into the wolves but they are thrown out to VERY open maps, with little to no cover. Say: GÇó Line Harvest:* There REALLY is not way to cover an objective effectivley.There are no choke points, the enemy can come in from ANY side in D and C and all it takes is for the enemy to assemble and outnumber the defensive units and voila, 100% sucess 100% of the time. B can be Snipe-Covered pretty effectivley but all it takes is 2-3 guys taking it at the same time and voila, you lost B. Also ,can come from any direction.And same with A. There is no STRATEGIC positioning! sure you can place yourself in that TABLE structure in the middle of the map, only to get sniped. Or on top of D and C, but you CANT effectivley cover the objectives from up there,an again you might be sniped. You can go snipe Camp on top of the 4 towers,yeah but you arent really doing anything but stat padding...and so on. So its no wonder in a map like this blue dots USUALLY get redlined.AFTER the enemy reinforced say, C & D, the blue dots DO NOT have an entry way back into the map,without having to face the wrath of Thales snipers, Roof Forgegunners, LR users in the hills , tanks protected by the roofs of C & etc... You got a sucesful sneak? Yeah,....no...You have been scanned. Have fun with 8 dudes following you around.with Proto gear This maps provide NO safe route BACK into the map. They dont provide MULTIPLE routes back into the fight. Usually only 1-2 that after a sucesful redline become heavily defended.They provide no effective way to turn the tables around, and EVEN if a whole team is at one of the objectives, there is no way to effectivley hold it since the enemy will keep coming, from ALL directions... CCP needs to adress these issues with the maps, not only matchmaking is broken to hell BUT on top of that the maps are (where infantry is meant to fight) extremly open. You are prone to Dropship attacks, orbital strikes are 100% effective on ALMOST every area of a map; Usually being able to cover with OBs up to 3+ objectives,Enemy entry points are at a massive 3+ per objective, with the lack of defendable choke points being common,etc... LEtts think of that ONE map with 3 objectives, ANOTHER redline favourite. WHY is it common for this map to end in redline? Well= GÖª All objectives are acessible from ALL sides. GÖª 99% of the time you will be in a snipers sight GÖª AV is very effective in this map making use of Vehicles for transport or for a counter offensive completley ridiculous idea. GÖª Once the enemy is redlined they have literally 3 options: 1- take the longest route to the most far away obj, pray you dont get sniped in the way or scanned. 2- Go straight through. LOL 3- Use the mountain area behind C. So you either suicide straight up. Go to C, where there will b at least 3-4 dudes protecting it, and if now while you are taking it they will run from B to C in 10 seconds, Or go take the long route and get sniped to death. Not to mention maps are usually broken in favor of Vehicles (line Harvest ) or AV infantry (the 3 obj one, manus peak? ) Just saying this maps are NOT newberrie friendly...
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 3791	Posted - 2013.10.27 00:06:00 - [2] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: gbghg wrote: Thats the very essence of an unfair comparison. metro is one of the greatest infantry maps that i've ever played on, a match between 2 competent teams turns into one very big, very fun firefight. i would have loved to play that thing on pc its a blast even with the limited numbers on console. Well its not. MOST maps in BF have similar features. Most maps in dust except the few new ones coincide with my OP mentioned issues. XD and you'll notice that most of those maps are infantry centrc, with vehicles having either little or no effect on the match. vehicle centric maps such as operation firestorm or caspian border involve lots of wide open spaces with mixed to light cover, rather reminiscent of certain dust maps. dust maps could have been executed better agreed but overall old style dust maps have similarities with battlefield vehicle centric ones.