One: The Forge Guns work as intended except for the Assault variants, as they produce far too much damage within a short span of time.

Two: The chances of killing with a Forge Gun with splash is abysmal if you don't have a height advantage (say, a tower). This is not a Mass Driver.

Three: I believe the "invisible swarms" is actually a rendering issue between the swarms and the game.

Four: The Forge Gun is limited by the rendering and by the user. This isn't something that is except from taking damage from everything but: grenades, installations, vehicles, Plasma Cannon, and Swarm Launchers. The heavy can die in one shot. An AR will cut down a heavy in seconds. A heavy will die by ANYTHING.

Five: I'm here to defend the Forge Gun, since it's one of the few things that are proper.

Get your game up.

This will never be a tanker game again. Those times are over. There will always be someone with AV ready to **** on your little easy boxes.

He fella, have you seen what they are doing to tanks? You clearly have not.

Tanks will have limited ammo for one.

Limited healing, with long cooldowns between.

Fewer slots to fit.

Fewer modules, as several have been removed, so less versatility.

Just to name a few.

So fella, forge gun does need its damage modified to reflect the new state of tanks coming up. As tanks are seeing a complete tear down and rebuild, AV stats HAVE to change. So don't view it as a nerf, but a re balancing.

You really believe that's enough for a board-wide reduction on a weapon that is properly preforming? (Once again, the Assault is the exception to this.)

You want to compare? Really?

For example, I'll use the Maddy.

Maddy now. Shield: 1125, armor 3625, 8 shield recharge, 2 highs, 5 lows, 1 large turret, 3 passengers, 2 small turrets. 210 CPU, 2690 PG.

Suggested Maddy. Shield 1200, 4000 armor, shield recharge 15, 2 highs, 3 lows, 1 turrets, 3 passengers, 2 small turrets. 475 CPU, 2480 PG.

You get more CPU, more health, a slower shield recharge (which is understandable given the nature of this particular tank), two less lows, and less PG. You can fit better modules now, though you can't take much heat if you want to maintain shields (lol, shields on the Maddy). Since the reppers can make tanks near immortal for a lone FGer like myself, what's the problem again?

You believe ammo is seriously a concern? By something that one-hit infantry depending on the turret type? Reeeeaaaallly? Against something that has sixteen shots and then it's spent unless restocked? By time the Maddy takes a second hit (in the more capable hands), it's already getting out of there or killing the threat.

Assault Forge Gun is the only FG needing to be altered.

Tanks will not become a dominate force again. We already deal with six at a time over in Ambush every now and then and they tuck their tails between their legs at the hint of FG.

You are missing the extremely long cooldowns for the heals.

And 3 lows. LOL

So you have a repper, which won't work as they currently do, currently they are broke, and heal more then my gunnlogi.
You put on a Plate.
And lastly your hardener.

High slots scanner and a nitro.

How does this not seem weakened to you?

Did you by chance check the Cooldowns on the Hardener, or the repper.

As it stands now, the hardener has a 15 second cd
The repper has a 15 to 30 second cooldown (I don't armor tank)

There will be times when the tank is extremely vulnerable, for a good long while. Yes numbers may seem initially higher, but you are missing other aspects.

How you fit a tank is all you. I used an armor tanked HAV as an example.

Tanks are not meant to be the end of all things, which calls for their downtimes.

Tanks are not meant to be the "do everything" vehicle, which is the limitation of slots.

You either fit to kill or to run. You will no longer do both. HAVs, as much as people will hate it, are coming to terms with being "balanced".

Also, this was all based off of the numbers CCP threw out. We both know they won't keep strictly to it, especially considering the game in question.

In a honest opinion, I'm seeing HAVs becoming "EVE formatted", if you know what that is.

Added note: If you don't know what it means, continue reading. If not, continue with whatever you was doing.

In EVE, we fit our ships to preform as well as it can in a field, but not in all fields. For example, PvE strong or PvP strong. We can't have both. We also are forced to choose if we want to be strong armor or strong shield tankers. Doing both is possible, but not recommended. Or we can be high tank, low damage. High damage, low tank. That is what is happening to HAVs. Forced into choice. Do you see all the aspects now?

On a tangential AV point....

I wonder if proximity mines are going to be reassessed. I can already imagine them being spammed around supply depots with people using multiple logistics fits.

If you don't tank or AV please get out...

Forge gun is fine... only a noob would say the word "nerf" only cos they've been killed by it. I have flied my assault dropship and i admit forge gunners are starting to bug me but assault dropships are leaving and i'm happy but remember this, no weapons are OP only damage modules, with a damage module tanking logi with duvolle and proficiency LVL 5 its supper deadly especially with the armor buff recently but i'm happy about that i only hate damage mod users.

Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing:

- Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 )
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

So grenades are taking a hit in damage

Swarm launcher damage is being reduced

RANGE will be cut by a great amount!

Forgeguns will be looked at as well, they mention.

Wow, just wow. From a tanking perspective, this is nice. Real nice!

Namely, I'm more interested in the range reduction. No more invisible swarms, no more tower swarming in unreachable places. So now tanks will have a fighting chance when it comes to swarmers.

Now, I wonder I wonder, what will they do with the forge gun. Maybe a reduction in range themselves, damage and no more infantry murdering splash.

We can only hope!

You say this now from the view off your OLD tanks. You have to keep in mind that all modules for vehicles getting nerfed, you loose 2 module slots on all standard tanks and you tell me you wont die as quick as you do now. You seem to forget that the only way to aquire passive resistance are coming from skillbooks. Active modules are short use and long cooldown. Oh and the AV changes will only happend hand in hand when vehicle changes are beeing deployed. Im really looking forward to your fancy tank with only 10% passive resistance. Oh and dont forget that buffer tank wont be vialble simply cause they reduced the HP gain on plates and shield extenders. I say you will still drive a rolling coffin.

One: The Forge Guns work as intended except for the Assault variants, as they produce far too much damage within a short span of time.

Two: The chances of killing with a Forge Gun with splash is abysmal if you don't have a height advantage (say, a tower). This is not a Mass Driver.

Three: I believe the "invisible swarms" is actually a rendering issue between the swarms and the game.

Four: The Forge Gun is limited by the rendering and by the user. This isn't something that is except from taking damage from everything but: grenades, installations, vehicles, Plasma Cannon, and Swarm Launchers. The heavy can die in one shot. An AR will cut down a heavy in seconds. A heavy will die by ANYTHING.

Five: I'm here to defend the Forge Gun, since it's one of the few things that are proper.

Get your game up.

This will never be a tanker game again. Those times are over. There will always be someone with AV ready to **** on your little easy boxes.

Armor tanks now have a 4k armor ceiling provided one slot is used for a rep, and you can manage to fit 2 180mm plates.

So, the Swarm Launcher and AV nades really aren't loosing anything, considering that even though the AV got a 33% nerf, and also considering that I saw a tank with 6k armor a few days ago, I think that it's going to be a even reduction

One: The Forge Guns work as intended except for the Assault variants, as they produce far too much damage within a short span of time.

Two: The chances of killing with a Forge Gun with splash is abysmal if you don't have a height advantage (say, a tower). This is not a Mass Driver.

Three: I believe the "invisible swarms" is actually a rendering issue between the swarms and the game.

Four: The Forge Gun is limited by the rendering and by the user. This isn't something that is except from taking damage from everything but: grenades, installations, vehicles, Plasma Cannon, and Swarm Launchers. The heavy can die in one shot. An AR will cut down a heavy in seconds. A heavy will die by ANYTHING.

Five: I'm here to defend the Forge Gun, since it's one of the few things that are proper.

Get your game up.

This will never be a tanker game again. Those times are over. There will always be someone with AV ready to **** on your little easy boxes.

Proto swarms will still deal over 1780 damage to armor plus damage mods. Still OP considering it will take a tank 16 or so seconds to recover from this.

Even though in a dev blog CCP stated how vehicles are an important part of dust, can't remember which one and assault variant fg does more damage than regular, assault variants are supposed to be less damage with the benefit of higher ROF, not working as intended hence being looked at.