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Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 176	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:15:00 - [1] - Quote Just a quick question, how many profile dampeners (as well as the bonus from the skill itself) does it take to evade proto scans on a logi? I'll settle for advanced scans if it's more than 2, is there a way to tell for myself? Let me know!
knight guard fury the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 55	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:18:00 - [2] - Quote you will know when it says you have avoided a scan or something, but you can test it out with someone who has proto scanners in a different server
Idye Lotz xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 143	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:25:00 - [3] - Quote I think it depends on your suit type & your profile dampening skills.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 651	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:26:00 - [4] - Quote I believe it is 2 complex profile damps to evade proto scans with logi maybe(most likely) more those To evade adv scans it is just 1 complex profile dampener
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 271	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:29:00 - [5] - Quote For medium suits, to avoid proto scans (28dB) you need either three enhanced dampeners with Lvl 3 in the skill, or two complex dampeners with Lvl 5 in the skill. The 15dB scanner is impossible for any suit except the Gallente Proto Scout to avoid (using 4x complex dampeners). Have you used hydraSlav's Dust Fitting Tool? It has been updated and now correctly reflects dampening. I plan my skill progression around builds I make with this tool.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 176	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:29:00 - [6] - Quote Sweet, I can work with that :) A speedy invisibly logi with tons of uplinks...please ignore me if you see me running around the field as I will be squishy lol
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 176	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:34:00 - [7] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: For medium suits, to avoid proto scans (28dB) you need either three enhanced dampeners with Lvl 3 in the skill, or two complex dampeners with Lvl 5 in the skill. The 15dB scanner is impossible for any suit except the Gallente Proto Scout to avoid (using 4x complex dampeners). Have you used hydraSlav's Dust Fitting Tool? It has been updated and now correctly reflects dampening. I plan my skill progression around builds I make with this tool. Think I've glanced at it but my plans haven't lead me astray so far, happy with all of my choices :) but I am getting into a new field here, might need to check it out, but I'm hoping for a respec when all of the new weapons and vehicle stuff comes out, I picked my weapon based on what was out and what was the best for me, I'd like to do that again!...1.7 sounds big.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 967	Posted - 2013.10.25 19:00:00 - [8] - Quote Skill five brings med frame passive to a scouts 45db, complex gets you to 33.75, complex an enhanced gets you to 27. 3 complex an a enh will get you under 15 if you have a 4 low slot suit
Shotgun Sorry Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.10.25 19:04:00 - [9] - Quote I love my Gallente scout passivly avoids adv scanners and one dampener to avoid complex. (No one uses the 15db scanner)
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 272	Posted - 2013.10.25 19:36:00 - [10] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Skill five brings med frame passive to a scouts 45db, complex gets you to 33.75, complex an enhanced gets you to 27. 3 complex an a enh will get you under 15 if you have a 4 low slot suit Your math doesn't account for stacking penalties. From in-game experience and the Dust Fitting Tool, you need two complex profile dampeners to avoid 28dB scans and medium frames cannot avoid 15dB scans at all. Before you protest, stacking penalties DO apply for dampeners - it was confirmed to me by a GM through a ticket.

Gunmouse 0uter.Heaven 87	Posted - 2013.10.25 19:38:00 - [11] - Quote Are you sure there are stacking penalties on dampeners? Not going to turn on the game to find out but I didn't think they did.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3265	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:02:00 - [12] - Quote Logi profile is 50 dB Standard scanner precision is 46 dB Advanced scanner precision is 36 dB Proto scanner precision is 28 dB Duvolle Focused precision is 15 dB So let's start, shall we? Logi: 50 dB At this point, everything detects you Dampening 5: 25% reduction is 75% the value 50 dB * 0.75 = 37.5 dB At this point, you evade standard scanners Add one complex dampener: 25% reduction is 75% the value 37.5 dB * 0.75 = 28.125 dB At this point, you evade advanced scanners Add a second complex dampener: stacking penalty, 25% * .87 = 21.75% reduction, which is 78.25% of the value 28.125 dB * 0.7825 = 22.0078125 dB, or about 22 dB At this point, you evade proto scanners except the Duvolle focused Add a third complex dampener: stacking penalty, 25% * .57 = 14.25% reduction, which is 85.75% of the value 22 dB * 0.8575 = 18.865 dB Nothing is gained from this Add a fourth compelx dampener: stacking penalty, 25% * .28 = 7% reduction, which is 93% of the value 18.865 dB * 0.93 = 17.54445 dB Nothing is gained from this Add a fifth complex dampener, the most you can add. Stacking penalty, 25% * .106 = 2.65% reduction, which is 97.35% of the value 17.54445 dB * .9735 = 17.08 dB Nothing is gained So there you have it. With just the skill you can avoid standard, with one complex you can avoid advanced, with two complex you can avoid most proto, but no matter how many you add you cannot avoid the Duvolle Focused as a logi. If you want to avoid those, you need a scout suit with level 5 scout, level 5 dampening, and 2 complex dampeners.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3265	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:04:00 - [13] - Quote Gunmouse wrote: Are you sure there are stacking penalties on dampeners? Not going to turn on the game to find out but I didn't think they did. The game does not say they are they, but they do exist. Experiment on your own if you don't believe me.
Gunmouse 0uter.Heaven 88	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:04:00 - [14] - Quote sorry but dampening skill gives -2% not -5% per level so only -10% when maxed not -25%
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3265	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:06:00 - [15] - Quote Gunmouse wrote: sorry but dampening skill gives -2% not -5% per level so only -10% when maxed not -25% Derp, you're right. I'm going to edit my math above.
Gunmouse 0uter.Heaven 88	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:08:00 - [16] - Quote and you want me to take your word on there being stacking penalties . For realz tho, i'd test it, but as a proto gal scout i dont care either way =)
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 178	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:12:00 - [17] - Quote I can afford the 2 complexes, don't think I need to worry about someone running around the outskirts of the map with a focused scanner, I'll start working on profile dampening again after I get my level 5 upinks :) throw on a couple complex speed mods and a stamina booster and ill be doing laps and tossing down spawn points willie nillie, ugh if only I had defense..lol
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 273	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:12:00 - [18] - Quote Aero, as Gunmouse pointed out your skill buff numbers are wrong but oddly you still come to the same correct conclusions about how much dampening you need to avoid advanced/proto scans. As a medium frame: No dampeners - 50dB Lvl 5 Profile Dampening (no modules)- 45dB One Enhanced Dampener - 36dB (I think you still get scanned) One Complex Dampener - 33.75dB (evade advanced but not proto scanners) Two Complex Dampeners - 26.42dB (evade all proto except Duvolle Focused 15dB) Five Complex Dampeners - 20.49dB (still not low enough to evade Duvolle Focused)
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3265	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:13:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Gunmouse wrote: sorry but dampening skill gives -2% not -5% per level so only -10% when maxed not -25% Derp, you're right. I'm going to edit my math above. Math edited, and that's why I sometimes forget what the bonus for the skill is, because whether it's 2% per level or 5% per level it doesn't change which scanners you can evade if only using complex dampeners.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 273	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:14:00 - [20] - Quote Gunmouse wrote: and you want me to take your word on there being stacking penalties . For realz tho, i'd test it, but as a proto gal scout i dont care either way =) It may behoove you to get your dampener skills to Lvl 2 and throw on a militia or basic dampener to avoid 28dB Proto scans. Dodging the 15dB would require all four of your lows to use Complex Dampeners, so for most people it isn't worthwhile.

Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3265	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:19:00 - [21] - Quote Gunmouse wrote: and you want me to take your word on there being stacking penalties . For realz tho, i'd test it, but as a proto gal scout i dont care either way =) Yes, because it has been tested and proved impossible for a medium suit to avoid the duvolle focused, which means there has to be stacking penalties taking place. In fact, not even the light frame can avoid the duvolle focused. That is a luxury exclusive to the Gallente scout, and it requires you have the prototype scout with all 4 slots as complex dampeners. CCP should probably look to change that though, not that we see many Duvolle Focused scanners anyways.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 178	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:20:00 - [22] - Quote Eh, trying to max out everything in dropsuit upgrades anyway, don't have too much left and I'm set with weaponry
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3265	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:32:00 - [23] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Gunmouse wrote: and you want me to take your word on there being stacking penalties . For realz tho, i'd test it, but as a proto gal scout i dont care either way =) It may behoove you to get your dampener skills to Lvl 2 and throw on a militia or basic dampener to avoid 28dB Proto scans. Dodging the 15dB would require all four of your lows to use Complex Dampeners, so for most people it isn't worthwhile. I just came to this conclusion as well, which is really BS. Especially considering the Duvolle Focused has the least fitting requirements for a proto scanner, it's just a slight ISK premium. If scouts ever got to the point where they were viable, why would anyone carrying proto scanners not carry the Duvolle Focused? Thus it'd render the scouts bonus worthless, especially considering it is impossible for a scout with less than 4 lows, like the Minmatar scout, to evade it. They should look at tweaking the numbers for the scanner precisions and scout base profile signature (specifically the scout, not the light), such that everything remains the same as it is now for every suit in how to avoid scanners, but for the scout it would be: Avoid standard by default, as it does now Avoid advanced by max skills, as it does now Avoid proto by 1 complex module, as it does now Avoid Duvolle Focused with 2 complex modules, which currently would actually require 4. That is 3 whole extra mods just to gain the next benefit, and some scouts don't even have room for that.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 273	Posted - 2013.10.25 20:37:00 - [24] - Quote Duvolle Focused Scanner requires 38 CPU (not much) and 18 PG (huge). Not sure why you thought it had the least fitting requirements of the scanners when it has double the PG of the other types. The drawback to this scanner is the LONG cool down time between consecutive scans (33 seconds), compared to the fairly short illumination time of the target (10 seconds, 5 sec scan duration time + 5 sec light up time). If one person in the squad used this scanner, you would only have scan intel for 30% of the match due to the long cooldown.


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