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Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1674
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Posted - 2013.10.24 15:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tyjus Vacca wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't have trouble with logis? The logi suit should not be gimped so strongly that assaults are guaranteed a kill -the better player should come out on top in a fair fight between two suits of the same weight class. apparently u havent seen the active scanner in action. this can still happen but not with the current setup. logi with 3/2 is fine.
(you missed an [ /quote ])
You do know that assaults can use equipment, right? If not having an active scanner running is that much of a weakness then you can use one. Taking the nerf bat to an entire class shouldn't happen just because you don't want to use the tools available to you.
While some differentiation between classes is needed, the murderlogi is a perfectly valid style of play in my book.
My personal take on the subject is that the blanket 10% buff that was added when they took out the bonus from weaponry should be removed, and the assault class should get a 1% buff to weapon damage (excluding grenades) per level.
That way a logi who wants to compete with the damage output of an assault would have to use up a bunch of slots and cpu/pg.
It'd also raise the time to kill that's driving a bunch of people off. |
J'Hiera
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2013.10.24 16:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Give logos a triage repair module that goes into the weapon slot (or rather, remove the weapon slot and give it a new type of weapon slot), that when used, puts you stationary for X seconds, but does a radius based repair sweep. Two main variants, armour or shield.
Kind of like compact nano hive. Maybe puts up a bubble for 5 seconds, with a cooldown of 10 seconds, at 5 or so meters radius. Numbers just to give an idea of how it'd work.
I'd like to see the Logistics suit forced into the support role. As it is now, I prioritise support, but I still outperform my gallente assault suit.
My logistics has a little bit more armour, about the same armour repair, and 1 complex 1 enhanced, instead of 2 complex damage mods. And the lack of a sidearm, but that's rarely an issue. It still performs better, but I can also accomplish two different tasks. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2357
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
J'Hiera wrote:Give logos a triage repair module that goes into the weapon slot (or rather, remove the weapon slot and give it a new type of weapon slot), that when used, puts you stationary for X seconds, but does a radius based repair sweep. Two main variants, armour or shield.
Kind of like compact nano hive. Maybe puts up a bubble for 5 seconds, with a cooldown of 10 seconds, at 5 or so meters radius. Numbers just to give an idea of how it'd work.
I'd like to see the Logistics suit forced into the support role. As it is now, I prioritise support, but I still outperform my gallente assault suit.
My logistics has a little bit more armour, about the same armour repair, and 1 complex 1 enhanced, instead of 2 complex damage mods. And the lack of a sidearm, but that's rarely an issue. It still performs better, but I can also accomplish two different tasks. Cancer |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1201
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
J'Hiera wrote:Give logos a triage repair module that goes into the weapon slot (or rather, remove the weapon slot and give it a new type of weapon slot), that when used, puts you stationary for X seconds, but does a radius based repair sweep. Two main variants, armour or shield.
Kind of like compact nano hive. Maybe puts up a bubble for 5 seconds, with a cooldown of 10 seconds, at 5 or so meters radius. Numbers just to give an idea of how it'd work.
I'd like to see the Logistics suit forced into the support role. As it is now, I prioritise support, but I still outperform my gallente assault suit.
My logistics has a little bit more armour, about the same armour repair, and 1 complex 1 enhanced, instead of 2 complex damage mods. And the lack of a sidearm, but that's rarely an issue. It still performs better, but I can also accomplish two different tasks. Absolutely not! This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on the Forums. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1201
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:
Hehe. you're one of the most highly respected people on the forums so no worries.
I've never understood the whole "logis need all those slots" thing. Somebody has to explain to me why a Caldari Logi with 350 CPU and 78PG with 3 highs, 2 lows and 3 equip slots cant do its job.
Logis are given the amount of slots they have because, when fitted out with decent equipment, we do not have the fitting cost to equip all higher tier defensive modules. We are already forced to sacrifice some potential HP in order to play a supportive role.
If some "assault" players feel they need the crutch of extra HP in order to be any good, then so be it.
Taking away slots from the Logi Suits will do nothing but gimp true Logistic Players' defensive abilities to the point of destroying the class entirely. |
Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
490
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:one of those threads again... oh look all the credibility of anti logi supporters just went down the toilet, again! who would guess that happens funny how those anti logi threads are always wrong and with biased opinions, there are plenty of tradeoffs for being a logi. my logi and assault proto fits have the about same EHP. my assault on the other hand has higher strafe speed, more forward speed and more stamina. my amarr logi is almost as slow as a heavy. my logi is also more expensive because it has more slots to fill. that is a fair tradeoff actually. I repeat it again for all the kids that dont get it: -logi, assault and medium frames have all about the same EHP after fitting modules -assault is, after fitting, cheaper because it has less slots to fill -logi is slower, more expensive to fit in exchange for extra equipment. it also does not matter how you think logis should be played, deal with it. you want to nerf logis? how about this: remove equipment slot of assaults then, you are not meant to have supportive equipment, you are there to attack and die. after that happens you can slightly nerf the logi EHP. you dont like it? of course you dont, because that idea is stupid, just as yours. see what I did here?
ur logic here fails because no one wants to nerf anything they want it to be retuned 1) they did what you asked and took equipment slots from every other suit remember? 2) CCP have stated over and over strafe speeds are now similar. 3) most people agree that the logi should be the 2nd fastest suit 4) it cant have the same EHP or attacking power of an assault. the scout trades health for its bonuses, the heavy trades movement, the assault is a balanced suit, so what does the logi trade? oh wait....
no one wants you to attack and die, they simply want the suits to be slotted correctly. and you certainly have a right to a murderlogi, but a murderassault should be significantly better.
u still havent answered the real question, why cant a CA logi with 3/2 slots not fill its role? |
Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
480
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:anything that makes scouts better and stops logis from being the ultimate weapon. I did not know healing and scanning was considered an ultimate weapon |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
170
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Prius Vecht wrote:
Hehe. you're one of the most highly respected people on the forums so no worries.
I've never understood the whole "logis need all those slots" thing. Somebody has to explain to me why a Caldari Logi with 350 CPU and 78PG with 3 highs, 2 lows and 3 equip slots cant do its job.
Logis are given the amount of slots they have because, when fitted out with decent equipment, we do not have the fitting cost to equip all higher tier defensive modules. We are already forced to sacrifice some potential HP in order to play a supportive role. If some "assault" players feel they need the crutch of extra HP in order to be any good, then so be it. Taking away slots from the Logi Suits will do nothing but gimp true Logistic Players' defensive abilities to the point of destroying the class entirely.
did u just type this? math not ur strong suit eh? proto extenders are 54/11, proto armor is 30/12, dmg mods are 68/9, proto nanohives are 84/15, uplinks 71/14. proto injectors are 48/8. scanners are 38/18. You can still max out everything. Next excuse please! |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
736
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Last time I remember, medics arent meant to be at the front line, so why are they complaining if they cant tank like a heavy? If the attackers run out into the open and exposing their medic, they deserve to die and the medic has every right to retreat, but instead we have logis who want to run out into the open soaking more damage than an assault and dishing the same amount of damage.
My logi has no problem repping and reviving while laying down supporting fire and staying out of harms way. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote:anything that makes scouts better and stops logis from being the ultimate weapon. I did not know healing and scanning was considered an ultimate weapon
no that would be 3 dmg mods and two extenders which the caldari can do, or have 4 armor and a repper which the gallente can. even the minny has 4-4-4 when it should have 4-1-4. |
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Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2357
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Yeah it's a bit sad. How I come up against ADV Logistics and I'm honestly more wary of them than PRO Assaults.
Logistics is master class. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1201
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Last time I remember, medics arent meant to be at the front line, so why are they complaining if they cant tank like a heavy? If the attackers run out into the open and exposing their medic, they deserve to die and the medic has every right to retreat, but instead we have logis who want to run out into the open soaking more damage than an assault and dishing the same amount of damage. My logi has no problem repping and reviving while laying down supporting fire and staying out of harms way. Master Jaraiya wrote:Logis are given the amount of slots they have because, when fitted out with decent equipment, we do not have the fitting cost to equip all higher tier defensive modules. We are already forced to sacrifice some potential HP in order to play a supportive role.
If some "assault" players feel they need the crutch of extra HP in order to be any good, then so be it.
Taking away slots from the Logi Suits will do nothing but gimp true Logistic Players' defensive abilities to the point of destroying the class entirely. I have no problem fitting full complex shield extenders, enhanced armor plates, and complex armor reps while having a proto nanohive, basic or advanced nanite injector, and either an advanced rep gun or advanced scanner. As for my main gun, I usually go with GEK but I could easily drop one of my underused equipment for a proto duvolle. When building my logi, I start out with a very strong foundation, then work my way up to equipment. I dont need proto equipment and I do just fine. All the extra CPU/PG just makes it even easier. Exactly my point! As a true support logi you are sacrificing either damage output or defense or both if you want to run better equipment.
On my Standard MinLogi, I have a Gek, standard Locus Grenades, advanced hives, advanced rep, advanced nanite injector, 2 basic shield extenders, an enhanced repairer and basic plate.
Could I drop the equipment back a tier for more offense/defense capability, sure, but I would be sacrificing my ability to support my team.
I'll be able to stack a bit more defense once I get Elec. and Eng. to 5. I currently have Core Upgrades 5, Elec. and Eng. 3. Light Weapon Op. 3 and Explosives 3 to squeeze as much CPU as I can out.
These optimization skills are still low because I just began speccing into logistics and light weapons. I'm primarily specced in Heavies. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1201
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote:anything that makes scouts better and stops logis from being the ultimate weapon. I did not know healing and scanning was considered an ultimate weapon no that would be 3 dmg mods and two extenders which the caldari can do, or have 4 armor and a repper which the gallente can. even the minny has 4-4-4 when it should have 4-1-4. Ha ha ha 1 equipment on a Logi!
You really want the "slayer logi" to flourish! |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote:anything that makes scouts better and stops logis from being the ultimate weapon. I did not know healing and scanning was considered an ultimate weapon no that would be 3 dmg mods and two extenders which the caldari can do, or have 4 armor and a repper which the gallente can. even the minny has 4-4-4 when it should have 4-1-4. Ha ha ha 1 equipment on a Logi! You really want the "slayer logi" to flourish!
its one low slot. cmon! |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1201
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Reiki Jubo wrote:anything that makes scouts better and stops logis from being the ultimate weapon. I did not know healing and scanning was considered an ultimate weapon no that would be 3 dmg mods and two extenders which the caldari can do, or have 4 armor and a repper which the gallente can. even the minny has 4-4-4 when it should have 4-1-4. Ha ha ha 1 equipment on a Logi! You really want the "slayer logi" to flourish! its one low slot. cmon! ohhh
So you want to take away armor buffer/rep abilities of an armor tanked suit?
Gee thats so smart, idk why nobody has ever though of it! |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2358
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
What about a separate CPU/PG for equipment and the suit?
Two sets of CPU/PG to keep the Heavy < assault < Logi in check.
Abstract idea but something around that ballpark. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
focus on the details if you're trying to act smart Jaraiya. the minny is balanced but shield dominant. and the logi has an auto repper to boot. it can still get complex armor plates if it chooses to. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
736
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Exactly my point! As a true support logi you are sacrificing either damage output or defense or both if you want to run better equipment.
On my Standard MinLogi, I have a Gek, standard Locus Grenades, advanced hives, advanced rep, advanced nanite injector, 2 basic shield extenders, an enhanced repairer and basic plate.
Could I drop the equipment back a tier for more offense/defense capability, sure, but I would be sacrificing my ability to support my team.
I'll be able to stack a bit more defense once I get Elec. and Eng. to 5. I currently have Core Upgrades 5, Elec. and Eng. 3. Light Weapon Op. 3 and Explosives 3 to squeeze as much CPU as I can out.
These optimization skills are still low because I just began speccing into logistics and light weapons. I'm primarily specced in Heavies.
I dont think you understand what I'm saying, I'm not sacrificing anything, the build I listed is pretty much an upgraded version of what my assault can use, I'm not sacrificing defense because thats probably the best hybrid defense available, most armor tankers would agree that complex plates are just a waste of cpu/pg that is better used elsewhere. My assault would struggle just to fit a proto weapon whereas my logi can fit it no problem. As I said in my first paragraph, downsizing from proto equipment to adv isnt even that big a disadvantage in being a logibro when I can still carry 3+ equipment and still be as effective as a pure logibro. Of course I'm using gallente logi as an example but I could easily get more rep, more armor, and more equipment than my assault with a small sacrifice of a sidearm and negligible speed that isnt noticeable unless I'm running side by side with a medium/light over long distances. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1274
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ing brillant |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1555
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:Easy Fix - their specialty is no other suit has multiple equip slots anymore which is fair. They dont need a ridiculous amount of high/low slots anymore.
they should have one less of high/low than assault of the same class. This^ |
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
743
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
those suggestions are really dumb and can obviously only come from CoD kids. sure you can adjust logis that way if you give logis same base EHP & same movement speed like assaults have.
really the attempt to create crutches for yourself is too obvious, too bad CCP does not listen to dumb suggestions.
and btw, CCP already said they will look into logi and assault balance, esp. the suit bonus. but unlike you, they will bring an intelligent solution. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6458
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Tolen Rosas wrote:Easy Fix - their specialty is no other suit has multiple equip slots anymore which is fair. They dont need a ridiculous amount of high/low slots anymore.
they should have one less of high/low than assault of the same class. This^ Except that some people use those slots for things other than plates and extenders. Even with high CPU/PG, I still need at least one enhancer for my equipment. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6458
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't have trouble with logis? The logi suit should not be gimped so strongly that assaults are guaranteed a kill -the better player should come out on top in a fair fight between two suits of the same weight class.
What should happen is a buff to the Assault class's spec bonus. an extra 5% per level to regen isn't all that good, if they were to get one that could match the passive hp regen of the logi things would be fine. Even if a logi suit ignores their equipment to get a bigger tank, they're still nothing but a more expensive assault suit that doesn't have a sidearm. Sure, you can run a Duvolle to get past the sidearm issue, but with the ARs being re-balanced, it's only a matter of time before that lack of a sidearm catches up with them. The bigger issue is TTK and how it affects fittings and dropsuit stats. Shield delay, recharge, and armor repair were all scaled to longer lifespans, but since 1.4, regulators, rechargers, energizers, armor reppers and reactive plates are all but completely useless as buffer tanking seems to be the only way to survive for that extra fraction of a second. Faster deaths and kills mean less downtime between fights and with the shield/armor repair rates we have now, people that invested SP into those skills are being robbed. Either TTK needs to be increased or these modules/stats need to be buffed to keep up with the more faster paced gameplay. |
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