DUST Search - Sustained Firefights will make this game great

Magpie Raven wrote:

For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land.

There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle.

Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective.

I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going.
I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually.

What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often.

Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there.

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Magpie Raven ZionTCD Public Disorder. 231	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:56:00 - [1] - Quote For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land. There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle. Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective. I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going. I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually. What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4143	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:02:00 - [2] - Quote I love those moments. They're genuinely my favourite in Dust - where the teams are roughly evenly matched, there's some cover but not too much, and gunfire is flying everywhere. Where logis brave the fire to revive and rep people, and where it's not a complete steamrolling, while vehicles crush each other on the field. That's the kind of Dust I want to see more often.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 838	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:25:00 - [3] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Strong group spawning causes this. The spawn system right after Uprising came out had what you're talking about happening almost every match, because players would be right back in the action close to the firing line. It was two walls of players slugging it out with a lot of ordinance flying overhead. Oddly enough, people complained. So CCP kept tweaking the spawn system until it was closer to what we had in Chromosome, but with stronger squad spawning.
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2138	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:26:00 - [4] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land. There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle. Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective. I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going. I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually. What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there. Here is what I took from this post: 1. ZionTCD is now part of Public Disorder 2. When I checked to see when this happened (as the last I saw you weren't in an alliance), I saw that Zion Shad is no longer CEO The rest is fluff. EDIT: by fluff, I mean i haven't read the rest yet.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2325	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:32:00 - [5] - Quote sustained fights are OP, Nerf them. QQ
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 407	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:38:00 - [6] - Quote I find it happens when you have good but not complete cover I.e. risk of being flanked, so there is some urgency. You also need a focal point like the 3 null cannon maps where each team holds one cannon securely. Can also happen in Ambush depending on the team spawn e.g. When both teams spawn in the same location.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2327	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:39:00 - [7] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Magpie Raven wrote: What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Strong group spawning causes this. The spawn system right after Uprising came out had what you're talking about happening almost every match, because players would be right back in the action close to the firing line. It was two walls of players slugging it out with a lot of ordinance flying overhead. Oddly enough, people complained. So CCP kept tweaking the spawn system until it was closer to what we had in Chromosome, but with stronger squad spawning. I find that I can generate some pretty active battles with good uplink placement, generally in Domination mode. Several uplinks placed in an arc around the objective defines the active front that players can spawn back into after being killed. It works if the teams are reasonably matched, but it won't work if my side is so outmatched that it is pushed back and the uplinks destroyed or if they give up and start sniping. It works on Skirmish to a lesser extent because there are fewer players contesting the objective and it's easier to head out to an uncontested site. Ambush used to work this way too before Uprising, but I haven't played much of that mode lately and when I do it's more for some simple Assault AR play than Logistics. Well, the one map I do Logi in Ambush is the one with the bridge over the dry canyon in the new map. That has such a clear divide that it cries out for uplinks and hives.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3541	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:44:00 - [8] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land. There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle. Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective. I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going. I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually. What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there. Its even more beautiful sitting in a tank when this happens. Sitting as a squat compact armoured bunker, barely moving just firing until you overheat. You see men on the other end of the line panic, then break, they run, reinforce, and bring AV, then fire works, you have swarms flying grenades being tossed, gunlines exchanging fire. And in one beautiful move if you tank happens to live you can tank shock them and drive straight through their central gun line and break it up entirely.
Cosgar ParagonX 6370	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:48:00 - [9] - Quote Bring back Replication's TTK.
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2138	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:49:00 - [10] - Quote Those are good times!

Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 175	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:51:00 - [11] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land. There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle. Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective. I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going. I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually. What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there. My suggestion would be for CCP to increase the time it takes to actually kill someone. It's hard to get the kind of battles that you're describing when players on either side can be cut down in a second or two. Increase the TTK, and you can have players popping in and out of cover to fire off some shots before returning to safety and repairing themselves.
Lv2spd2 Slow And Old 33	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:06:00 - [12] - Quote Ambush OMS happens this way fairly often when there is a single supply depot. The two maps that have the depots on the bridge virtually always break into this kind of fight. I call them Logi fights, as the team with the best logi support will usually win.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 598	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:10:00 - [13] - Quote What I'd like to see, which I think would bring more of this kind of thing, is self-balancing battles. A handicap system. Essentially, as one side loses more clones than the other, a "defence bonus" kicks in, giving the losing side bonuses to shield/armour resists, repair rates, damage, range, etc. The "defence bonus" level keeps rising until both sides are losing clones at about the same rate. The winner of the battle isn't determined by outright victory; the battle is won by whichever team pushes the other team's bonus level higher by the end of the match. The winners wouldn't brag about a 10:1 KDR, they'd brag about maintaining a 1:1 KDR when the other side had a 150% bonus to HP, damage, range, etc. This would only be one game mode, of course. I'm not suggesting all battles are like this.
Sarducar Kahn xCosmic Voidx Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 138	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:16:00 - [14] - Quote Decent uplink placement in ambush makes this happen. Preferably OMS so the beautiful moment lasts longer. About half of the ambushes I play have this for at least a minute before one line breaks.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:16:00 - [15] - Quote I have to laugh when mordu's trials level of game play are the answer. Oh if you only knew, the AR could't kill anyone before it ran out of ammo. Sure that is the right direction.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1547	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:18:00 - [16] - Quote I find a big problem with sustained fights is once one side realises the other side is getting entrenched, they'll just start bringing out grenades. Even with the basic locus grenades, throwing three half cooked into an enemy blob is guaranteed to get me at least two kills. This is partially due to the lack of any real grenade indicator when the nade isn't visible on your HUD, leading to unintentionally walking on top of the grenade. Also, grenade spam is made possible by a few prototype nanohives, which seem to be so much harder to clear with fluxes than it is to get kills with locus nades. Not to mention sustained fights between squads will eventually be disrupted depending on which side grabs an orbital first. It's definitely fun but either we remove all mechanics that instantly pop multiple units on each side of the fight or make it possible to reform that front line even after being devastated by an orbital. This includes changing (decreasing) the gap between prototype and basic gear, incresing WP requirement for orbitals, or remove WP from orbital kills, making grenades have longer fuse times and have better grenade indicators so nades force the enemy to reposition instead of tearing them to shreds with the least warning. I would also mention the power of a vehicle in disrupting enemy lines but taking into account that almost half the games I lay involve prototype AV...
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 862	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:41:00 - [17] - Quote Ive seen longer sustained firefights since .4, not sure where you been at. The fragility of the suits means people hang back and use cover more, proto suits can't rush across a no mans land, and no one wants to make a loss, weapons with secondary kr psychological effects are used more now. The only problem? The AR in comparison to everything else is unstoppable. Its not that long and diverse firefights don't happen, hell I have been in a few crackers myself, its just they don't happen when the AR gets involved!
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3148	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:05:00 - [18] - Quote There's almost guaranteed to be a sustained fire fight at Charlie at the beginning of a match on Manus Peak if both teams know what they are doing I've had some great battles there. Still, past three or so days I started picking up light frames again and have been having some of the most fun I've ever had in Dust. If I can get through the entire match without engaging a single enemy, just sneaking behind their backs and hacking stuff, then that was a good match.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1256	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:07:00 - [19] - Quote Just increase ehp for all suits.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3546	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:07:00 - [20] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: There's almost guaranteed to be a sustained fire fight at Charlie at the beginning of a match on Manus Peak if both teams know what they are doing I've had some great battles there. Still, past three or so days I started picking up light frames again and have been having some of the most fun I've ever had in Dust. If I can get through the entire match without engaging a single enemy, just sneaking behind their backs and hacking stuff, then that was a good match. NOT OUR WAR!

Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3154	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:08:00 - [21] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: There's almost guaranteed to be a sustained fire fight at Charlie at the beginning of a match on Manus Peak if both teams know what they are doing I've had some great battles there. Still, past three or so days I started picking up light frames again and have been having some of the most fun I've ever had in Dust. If I can get through the entire match without engaging a single enemy, just sneaking behind their backs and hacking stuff, then that was a good match. NOT OUR WAR! That's the name of my fit
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3548	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:31:00 - [22] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: True Adamance wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: There's almost guaranteed to be a sustained fire fight at Charlie at the beginning of a match on Manus Peak if both teams know what they are doing I've had some great battles there. Still, past three or so days I started picking up light frames again and have been having some of the most fun I've ever had in Dust. If I can get through the entire match without engaging a single enemy, just sneaking behind their backs and hacking stuff, then that was a good match. NOT OUR WAR! That's the name of my fit Its the same as mine as well.
Zion Shad ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1946	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:33:00 - [23] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land. There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle. Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective. I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going. I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually. What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there. During the Round Table with the DEVs, it was brought up that there are "Bottle Necks" in the works for some of the maps. With the newest Research Facility being a great map for CQC battles, the maps may be geared towards some really interesting stand off's. Lots for Gunfire and reping almost in a race for an OB.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1253	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:28:00 - [24] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I love those moments. They're genuinely my favourite in Dust - where the teams are roughly evenly matched, there's some cover but not too much, and gunfire is flying everywhere. Where logis brave the fire to revive and rep people, and where it's not a complete steamrolling, while vehicles crush each other on the field. That's the kind of Dust I want to see more often. Sounds like the 2011 E3 trailor.
Raz Warsaw Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 37	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:34:00 - [25] - Quote I hate to do it but firefights should look like planetside 2. What I mean is if I look are their should be **** flying everywhere
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Public Disorder. 243	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:41:00 - [26] - Quote Raz Warsaw wrote: I hate to do it but firefights should look like planetside 2. What I mean is if I look are their should be **** flying everywhere Yes in a way that's what I want. The chaos. The adrenaline. Battles that last longer than a few seconds. That's one thing that PS2 got perfect although they didn't offer much else
Cosgar ParagonX 6377	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:43:00 - [27] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Just increase ehp for all suits. Remove the 10% damage buff from 1.0 Uprising.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 652	Posted - 2013.10.24 12:36:00 - [28] - Quote Movement capability causes this. If you want better, longer (read: more realistic) fights then this whole jumping around like ballerinas needs to end. Light suits should be the only suit you can jump around in and even then only when not firing. If ppl were forced to simply walk/run with slower strafe and minimal if any jumping then we'd see more tactical movement around objectives. Make hip firing near useless. You have to ADS to hit well. You'd see a lot more ppl making deliberate, careful movement and consequently, longer firefights due to not being able to easily maneuver around enemy fire.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French CRONOS. 1937	Posted - 2013.10.24 13:29:00 - [29] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: For me the best part of a battle is when there is an "actual battle". Right now there seems to be two ways fights go in this game. One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds or its one v one fights between players. Neither are much fun in my opinion. The best fights are the ones involving whole squads lasting minutes over a patch of land. There are very few sustained firefights happening. Maybe once every 4 or 5 rounds is there an actual battle. Squads exchanging fire over a distance trying to kill each other off. A constant battle to hold the position. Taking ground and being pushed back. When you die your running back to try and reenforce your team. You take ground gradually not sprinting into the enemy. These fights often last a few minutes at least. and feature massed fire to the point where everyone is screaming for nanohives. They happen in the weirdest of place. In those hills between objectives. Even just in a hallway connecting two buildings. Sometimes not even near the objective. I dont know but when those skirmishes end, even if my squad lost the objective it still got my adrenaline going. Theres a real sense of desperation and struggle to hold on or take the objective and when it happens it feels great. You guys know what im talking about. That game that felt more real than the others. That really got you going. I dont know what causes it. Maybe its actual smart players got paired together that use cover. Right now most firefights involve one side being totally outnumbered and they only last seconds usually. What element do you think cause this? And is there anything we can suggest to CCP to change so that this more real kind of battle happens more often. Now that I think of it. Those of you that played MAG would know what im talking about. This kind of thing happened all the time there. Blame it on the game modes. Maps are too big because the current game modes we have show fights for a neutral ground. There aint a team that is actually defending and another one attacking. It's all shifting. Thus ppl can spawn far away from action and remain there, safe, if it's too painfull. Thus why we get so much boring fights. Also, there aint no penalty for losing except for your W\L ratio and the potential ISK deficit if you actually fought the battle. We'll have more sustained fighting areas when we'll have a game mode with actual attackers and defenders, a final objective that ends the fight and failsafe to avoid boring games to last because of scared players. Worst part being that such a game mode would make level design much easier.
Dachande Anasazi DUST University Ivy League 39	Posted - 2013.10.24 13:48:00 - [30] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: One group totally crushes the other group in a matter of seconds. Logis needto stop spamming uplinks and place them tactically right behind ur squad. (Not all his uplink but one of them...i keep one on a point to defend and one right behind my squad..and then LAY DOWN repper hives (dont use rep tool) If both sides do this...it will be sustained..especially on the map with the big bridge.



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