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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
This tank i have created is a response to the current change in AV. Rather than trying to outHP the enemy, sticking with 2 hardener, plate rep and pg upgrade, i have take a different step, which allows for geurilla tactics, however this tank will never win against a HP stacked maddy using blasters adv and up. Gunnlogis lose near instantly though.
1 large efficient repair 2 10% large hybrid damage mods 1 local PG 1 120 MM polycrystalline
2nd level nitrous 1 scanner of choice- i use the wavelength because of Cpu shortage.
80gj scattered neutron blaster 20gj neutron up top At-1 accelerated up front
Large blaster stats: 178.77 damage per shot 470 rpm- 7.6 rps dps is as folows: 1400 median, 1300 against armor, 1490 against shield. anything std and above AV will kill you if you don't kill them. Which won't be difficult because even a maxed HP heavy lasts 2 seconds. (Typical forge attack distance is around 130+ meters, which js 42% efficiency.) any attack from farther than 80m will kill you faster than you can kill back. Suggested reaction is nitrous and retreat.
This tank will only work with this skillset too. I've tried this before and none are dependable. Minimum requirements are maxed damage mods, lv3 armor repair ,lv2 maneuverability and lv3/4 plates. At lower Sp levels this tank will NOT work. It would be more beneficial to use the typical maddy fit. |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
be better running a vayu with maxed turret skills, proto turret and maxed vayu skill. thats 30% damage(before stacking penalty) extra on a proto turret on a tank with 74% resists, heat sink II, active scanner, NOS, heavy efficient rep and proto small turrets. Tanks about 3.2kk but evil as ****.
you can run the same on a maddy, but loose out on dmg/range and a high slot |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7174
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:be better running a vayu with maxed turret skills, proto turret and maxed vayu skill. thats 30% damage(before stacking penalty) extra on a proto turret on a tank with 74.02% resists, heat sink II, active scanner, NOS, heavy efficient rep and proto small turrets. Tanks about 3.2kk but evil as ****.
you can run the same on a maddy, but loose out on dmg/range and a high slot Does the Vayu have native resists? Otherwise, how are you getting such a high resist? |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7174
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that.
Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've been thinking about grabbing an enforcer, but i've yet to decide which one. The falchion i could do pg, and double damge mods, but i'd have near ewuivelant hp to my ganky gunnlogi, Or a vayu with a 3rd high slot that i might not use. Currently my maddy hasn't needed to overheat against a tank. Currently my tactics are ' get behind and spam tracks' if i can't do tht, such as direct head on attack, i run away and try to reposition myself. Heavily leaning towards Vayu since that 3rd high slot can be used for a 2nd nitrous to use when on cooldown, or a shield booster to keep from dying to mlt swarms, but that's a ways off
Edit: sorry if i make little sense, typing on phone. |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary.
If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes
25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02%
base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = m my74.02% murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out.
edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link |
Cy Clone1
Cy CL0Ne 1
290
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:I've been thinking about grabbing an enforcer, but i've yet to decide which one. The falchion i could do pg, and double damge mods, but i'd have near ewuivelant hp to my ganky gunnlogi, Or a vayu with a 3rd high slot that i might not use. Currently my maddy hasn't needed to overheat against a tank. Currently my tactics are ' get behind and spam tracks' if i can't do tht, such as direct head on attack, i run away and try to reposition myself. Heavily leaning towards Vayu since that 3rd high slot can be used for a 2nd nitrous to use when on cooldown, or a shield booster to keep from dying to mlt swarms, but that's a ways off
Edit: sorry if i make little sense, typing on phone.
you cannot fit two nitrous!!!!!!!! It wont allow it regardless of the amount of space you have.
I would say go falchion. I have yet to see a build that is in anyway useable for vayu's |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
oh alright, forgot about that restriction. About the my Dps being nullified, thats almost what i'm aiming for: cause you to activate rep while i run away, then in 30 seconds reattack while you're on cooldown. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7176
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = m my74.02% murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link I'm going to go burn the rest of the ISK that I don't have testing a sub par version of that (took the respec so no max vehicle skills anymore)
I'm trying just a Maddy with 2 voltaics, 2 22% resists, and only 4% base resist.
This is gonna go bad but I'm just curious.
Ahh just spawned into two tanks a proto forge AV grenades and swarms
Ahhhhhh 800k down the toilet ^_^ |
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also, why falchion? Shield tanks are near useless in comparison to armor, thanks to restrictive repairs. I used to run blaster gunnlogis with 1 dmg mod and a pg, with scanner, azeo heavy extender, light clarity boostrr, surge hardener, and nitrous. Thing died to mlt blaster sicas in straight up fights, and if i win, plasma cannons would kill me. I'm leaning towards vayu still, as i can use the same fit as now, but with damage bonuses native. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. I'm ********, don't mind me. I can't math today. (I still feel like the stacking penalty would make it way less than 74%)
It would. It's 87% (and then 87% of 87 and so on), so that fit is useless. |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = m my74.02% murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link I'm going to go burn the rest of the ISK that I don't have testing a sub par version of that (took the respec so no max vehicle skills anymore) I'm trying just a Maddy with 2 voltaics, 2 22% resists, and only 4% base resist. This is gonna go bad but I'm just curious. Ahh just spawned into two tanks a proto forge AV grenades and swarms Ahhhhhh 800k down the toilet ^_^
My maddy costs 1.6kk running this build, ONLY when i have a capable squad, if not I run a 800k 5100 build. If your on later i'll try get you squaded with us via the tank channel there. Show you how to use it. When I have my choice squad we keep a vayu driver top of scoreboard and alive throughout match. That tank costs 3.2kk
you should see the mail when i get out the front turret and gun their asses down with a balacs loool |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3536
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:This tank i have created is a response to the current change in AV. Rather than trying to outHP the enemy, sticking with 2 hardener, plate rep and pg upgrade, i have take a different step, which allows for geurilla tactics, however this tank will never win against a HP stacked maddy using blasters adv and up. Gunnlogis lose near instantly though.
1 large efficient repair 2 10% large hybrid damage mods 1 local PG 1 120 MM polycrystalline
2nd level nitrous 1 scanner of choice- i use the wavelength because of Cpu shortage.
80gj scattered neutron blaster 20gj neutron up top At-1 accelerated up front
Large blaster stats: 178.77 damage per shot 470 rpm- 7.6 rps dps is as folows: 1400 median, 1300 against armor, 1490 against shield. anything std and above AV will kill you if you don't kill them. Which won't be difficult because even a maxed HP heavy lasts 2 seconds. (Typical forge attack distance is around 130+ meters, which js 42% efficiency.) any attack from farther than 80m will kill you faster than you can kill back. Suggested reaction is nitrous and retreat.
This tank will only work with this skillset too. I've tried this before and none are dependable. Minimum requirements are maxed damage mods, lv3 armor repair ,lv2 maneuverability and lv3/4 plates. At lower Sp levels this tank will NOT work. It would be more beneficial to use the typical maddy fit. Looks like the Maddy Scout Tank I sometimes like to run. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1176
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link Yeah resistance doesn't work out that way.
Using the numbers you provided you will get around 50% resistance:
100 * 0.9 (armor skill) * 0.75 (first mod) * 0.78 (second mod) * 0.95 (third mod) * 0.99 (fourth mod) = around 50% damage taken (yes I know I didn't use exact numbers).
Do note that the game might be applying the stacking penalty in the opposite order (so starting with the passive mods going through the active ones, which will reduce your resistance further). Also note that the two passive mods add almost no extra resistance as you would still have around 47% without those two.
So the short version is stick with only two active mods and use something else instead of the passive ones, as they're then worthless. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
How do stacking penalties work? Is it a % reduction to the effect per stack, or is it just the effect of diminishing returns(like double 5% reductions in damage taken, such as 95% at first, then 5% off of 95%, which would yield a number higher than 90%?) Just realised, i'm conversing withthe one tanker that i remember killing me! (Partly because of the name, i just don't care most of the time.) i'd love to squad with you though, either send an invite or mail me the name. My tanker's name is Cantankerous Giant. |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link Yeah resistance doesn't work out that way. Using the numbers you provided you will get around 50% resistance: 100 * 0.9 (armor skill) * 0.75 (first mod) * 0.78 (second mod) * 0.95 (third mod) * 0.99 (fourth mod) = around 50% damage taken (yes I know I didn't use exact numbers). Do note that the game might be applying the stacking penalty in the opposite order (so starting with the passive mods going through the active ones, which will reduce your resistance further). Also note that the two passive mods add almost no extra resistance as you would still have around 47% without those two. So the short version is stick with only two active mods and use something else instead of the passive ones, as they're then worthless.
you probably do know more, but I've been hit by hit by swarmers and received well under half the damage I should do, somethings goofy I now its getting more than 50% resists for sure tho.
As for stick with 2 active hardeners...no, out kill those tanks left right and center, this tank easily survives a lot better than 5100 and 6700 tanks I've used. I'll stick to my evil ****** tank |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7176
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
I really hope they hand out another respec so I can just drive vehicles, I have an insane amount of SP in infantry skills that I literally only use to grind out ISK for my next vehicle.
::crosses fingers::
Sad part is is that I had most vehicle upgrade skills maxed but was so zoned in on being a dropship specialist that I raged something fierce and took the respec when it was offered. |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I really hope they hand out another respec so I can just drive vehicles, I have an insane amount of SP in infantry skills that I literally only use to grind out ISK for my next vehicle.
::crosses fingers::
Sad part is is that I had most vehicle upgrade skills maxed but was so zoned in on being a dropship specialist that I raged something fierce and took the respec when it was offered.
If they do a partial with the vehicle redo, I'll probably wait a while to see how other tankers fair before I put anything back in. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
161
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 21:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
I saw a vayu and a madrugar in an ambush once both with Scattered Ion cannons they must have lost like 4-5 mil between them they both died to AV. The Vayu only had base armor so I'm thinking he went for low armor ultra resist. |
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Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
927
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
I wouldnt ever use a vayu in ambush, unless I knew for certain the other team was useless |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
3734
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:How do stacking penalties work? Is it a % reduction to the effect per stack, or is it just the effect of diminishing returns(like double 5% reductions in damage taken, such as 95% at first, then 5% off of 95%, which would yield a number higher than 90%?) Just realised, i'm conversing withthe one tanker that i remember killing me! (Partly because of the name, i just don't care most of the time.) i'd love to squad with you though, either send an invite or mail me the name. My tanker's name is Cantankerous Giant. there are two things that affect module stacking, the first is stacking penalties, 1st module is 100% effective, the second one is 87% effective and so on. the other factor is that the percentages are kinda cumulative in reverse. if you apply a 10% resist you get 10% of 100 damage reduction, if you apply another 10% resist you get 10% of 90 damage reduction. basically every time you add a resist (or damage mod etc) you have to take away the value of the module you just added from the total of 100% then apply stacking penalties.
and to the person who said that you can't fit two modules to a vehicle you're wrong, you can, just make sure they have different names. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
801
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 23:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link Stacking penalty is bugged curently, so you have to add a stacking penalty on the first module |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 00:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link Stacking penalty is bugged curently, so you have to add a stacking penalty on the first module
I don't know if the stacking is bugged on the first one, if you are looking at the resistance numbers it will look like the first one stacks, it's actually the skill that adds resistance. I may be wrong, it's difficult to test the other stats because if it is on damage mods as well you can only use enemy installations as a controlled test. And if the stacking is applied to the first module, you have to add three dmg mods to get good results so I haven't bothered trying to test it. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 00:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:2 carapace, 2 voltiac, lvl 5 armor skill, 25,25,15,15,10 They have stacking penalties though, there's no way it works out to that. Plus, then you're relying on just your base HP....scary. If i run those numbers through the stacking calculator(hoping that thing works lol) it goes 25,25,15,15,10=90 25.00%, 21.73%, 8.56%, 4.24%, 1.06%, = 74.02% base HP is low, no plates on vayu leaves only its native speed penalty, on maddy = murder taxi. Also if the 74.02 is right then the OP's tank doing 1300dps versus armor will actually be reduced to 338dps whilst my heavy efficient reps over 400/s, his tank has next to no resists to hold out against what I'm handing out. edit: the stacking calculator is used -- link
That seems a little off; numbers look right though, and I added them up it's 60.59%.
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