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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
257
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 08:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Allmost every armor tanked suit in the game has no chance to survive a core locus grenade. Why? Because grenades deal 30% more damage against armor. So a core locus grenade effectively deals 780HP against armor. Which means if you dont put 4 complex plates on your low slots you will allways be 1 hit killed regardless what you do. And on the other hand they do 30% less damage against shield which means they deal effectivley 420HP. In my opinion grenades should do the same damage against shields and armor. What this means is it should do 600HP damage against shields AND armor. |
Tectonious Falcon
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
747
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
257
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tectonious Falcon wrote:No. Mad shield tanker right there to defend his crutch. |
Tectonious Falcon
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
747
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Actually I'm a heavy and therefore have plenty of armour. Your suggestion is just bad. |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1268
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not entirely accurate. Grenades do way more damage than that. How many times have I killed a fully tanked heavy with a single nade? Well, many.
It might be that the game gives a direct+splash damage if you hit close enough, or it can be a matter of headshot bonus, I dunno. I even took out Trackys fancy pants assault suit at max health with a single M1 nade, it exploded virtually on his nosetip.
Nades should get a nerf across the board IMO, nade spam has been the norm in Dust for far too long now. Amount carried should be reduced to 2 and there shouldn't be anything stronger than the M1s IMO.
When it goes to giving different damage to different armor types I don't agree. Perhaps tone it down a little to maybe 20% or something. I would like to keep the variable damage in Dust as it makes it harder to choose between armor and shield tanking = a more diverse game is a more fun game.
(Dindn't see you post the same sort of suggestion when you were king of the hill with the old laser destroyig all thre shield tanked suits with the OP Viziam...) |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1540
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I just played DUST, my tank got ripped to shreds by a Wiyrkomi SL which I couldn't see, he dealt 20k damage, keep firing even as I was seeking cover, until my repper was down, still he was firing, boom, I was gone.
There was also a blueberry sitting in my front turret firing at every object he could, including friendly NULL cannons, the road in front of us, hills, those big circular (water storage?) structures, the MCC, enemy NULL cannons, trucks, pipelines, etc. and generally making a huge ruckus and alerting every enemy in a 100m radius to my presence.
After the game I felt like making a thread suggesting we change SLs, introduce countermeasures, buff tanks, buff shields, and implement an eject button for vehicle passengers.
I typed it up, and I felt like rereading what I had written, and realised something: What if half the suggestions on this forum were made in the aftermath of a disgusting, annoying game?
I mashed backspace and that thread was never born.
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Tectonious Falcon
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
748
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I just played DUST, my tank got ripped to shreds by a Wiyrkomi SL which I couldn't see, he dealt 20k damage, keep firing even as I was seeking cover, until my repper was down, still he was firing, boom, I was gone. There was also a blueberry sitting in my front turret firing at every object he could, including friendly NULL cannons, the road in front of us, hills, those big circular (water storage?) structures, the MCC, enemy NULL cannons, trucks, pipelines, etc. and generally making a huge ruckus and alerting every enemy in a 100m radius to my presence. After the game I felt like making a thread suggesting we change SLs, introduce countermeasures, buff tanks, buff shields, and implement an eject button for vehicle passengers. I typed it up, and I felt like rereading what I had written, and realised something: What if half the suggestions on this forum were made in the aftermath of a disgusting, annoying game? I mashed backspace and that thread was never born.
/thread |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
733
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Posted - 2013.10.23 08:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
i must say that it is a little tiresome to get OHK whenever someone decides he doesnt want his grenade anymore and throws it towards my Armor Tanked Assault suit, especially when it is raining grenades from someone ontop of a hive.
Also not being able to use grenades properly since open beta as a KBM user also adds to the beef i got with em. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
122
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Posted - 2013.10.23 09:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Simple, grenades should not get a multiplier for damage to the head. I think part of the problem with grenades is that when the do hit you in the head, you get double whammy'd. I have had a grenade do well over 1k damage to me. |
BrownEye1129
Death In Xcess Corporation
100
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Posted - 2013.10.23 09:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shield tank so I can melt your faces quicker with my Lazer. Different damage types are are more affect against shield or armor. It has been this way since well as long as Dust has existed. It is one of the things that seperate Dust from other FPS. You have to make a choice what your strenghts and what your weakness are. Yet this *Noob* wants to come in and complain about it. Not going to change it is a Core Mechanic of the gameplay. |
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Protocake JR
Ancient Exiles
810
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Posted - 2013.10.23 10:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
BrownEye1129 wrote:Shield tank so I can melt your faces quicker with my Lazer. Different damage types are are more affect against shield or armor. It has been this way since well as long as Dust has existed. It is one of the things that seperate Dust from other FPS. You have to make a choice what your strenghts and what your weakness are. Yet this *Noob* wants to come in and complain about it. Not going to change it is a Core Mechanic of the gameplay.
Except you are forgetting that Dust is incomplete. If there is a grenade that rips through armor but has difficulty going through shields, then there should also be a grenade available that does the opposite (strong against shields, weaker vs armor).
This is something they probably tried doing with flux grenades, however fluxes do not balance out locus grenades because their mechanics differ entirely and thus, have different roles on the battlefield.
So the choices available are not balanced which ends up screwing people over for unknowingly making the wrong decision. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
4125
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Posted - 2013.10.23 10:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
I would rather see the explosive damage in line with what it's supposed to be. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2209
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Posted - 2013.10.23 10:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Its not the grenades fault you're not smart enough to dual tank and instead put all your defense into one thing |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
304
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Posted - 2013.10.23 10:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I would rather see the explosive damage in line with what it's supposed to be.
^this, sometimes i think grenades triple hit me, heashot damage, close range damange, and then the far out damage all hit me at once. They do crazy high amounts of damage sometimes. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
304
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Posted - 2013.10.23 10:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Its not the grenades fault you're not smart enough to dual tank and instead put all your defense into one thing
You do know that every precident in new eden has dual tanking being the worst possible choice for every situation. Hell there is an space on reddit that is full of dual tank fittings for eve, its called r/shitfits. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
257
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 10:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Its not the grenades fault you're not smart enough to dual tank and instead put all your defense into one thing Yeah right shield extenders on gallente suits. What are you smoking? Dogcrap? And your comment indicates that shield is supposed to be better then armor. You would probs cry all day if flux grenades where aible to 1 hit kill you. |
Tectonious Falcon
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
751
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Posted - 2013.10.23 11:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Its not the grenades fault you're not smart enough to dual tank and instead put all your defense into one thing Yeah right shield extenders on gallente suits. What are you smoking? Dogcrap? And your comment indicates that shield is supposed to be better then armor. You would probs cry all day if flux grenades where aible to 1 hit kill you.
If a caldari suit is hit by a flux grenade then they will either have to run away or die incredibly fast. But since you want explosive damage to have the same effectiveness in both shields and armour then I guess laser rifles, scrambler rifles and scrambler pistols should also be able to rip through armour the way they do to shields? |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
738
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Posted - 2013.10.23 11:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tectonious Falcon wrote:Bright Cloud wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Its not the grenades fault you're not smart enough to dual tank and instead put all your defense into one thing Yeah right shield extenders on gallente suits. What are you smoking? Dogcrap? And your comment indicates that shield is supposed to be better then armor. You would probs cry all day if flux grenades where aible to 1 hit kill you. If a caldari suit is hit by a flux grenade then they will either have to run away or die incredibly fast. But since you want explosive damage to have the same effectiveness in both shields and armour then I guess laser rifles, scrambler rifles and scrambler pistols should also be able to rip through armour the way they do to shields?
not even true, caldari suits also have basic plates in their slots.
and not even a fair comparison. if an armor tanked suits gets hit be a proto grenade he is dead. if a caldari suit gets hit by a flux or proto grenade he is still alive and can fight back.
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I just played DUST, my tank got ripped to shreds by a Wiyrkomi SL which I couldn't see, he dealt 20k damage, keep firing even as I was seeking cover, until my repper was down, still he was firing, boom, I was gone.
in short, you finally know how to fit tank properly but you still lack awareness and driving skills.
you overextended and allowed him to hit you with 7 swarm volleys. thats over 15 seconds of continous shooting from the swarm guy, plenty of time to get out into cover unless you were right in the middle of an open field in which case you failed and deserve the loss |
Tectonious Falcon
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
751
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 11:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:I just played DUST, my tank got ripped to shreds by a Wiyrkomi SL which I couldn't see, he dealt 20k damage, keep firing even as I was seeking cover, until my repper was down, still he was firing, boom, I was gone.
in short, you finally know how to fit tank properly but you still lack awareness and driving skills. you overextended and allowed him to hit you with 7 swarm volleys. thats over 15 seconds of continous shooting from the swarm guy, plenty of time to get out into cover unless you were right in the middle of an open field in which case you failed and deserve the loss
I think you've misunderstood the entire point of his post. |
Sleepy Shadow
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
69
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Posted - 2013.10.23 12:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is an old thread, but it raises a good point. I didn't play in closed beta, so I cannot say what grenades were like, but if they have remained unchanged (damage wise) CCP should look at grenades at some point.
I don't think grenades should do equal damage to shields and armour but the armour bonus needs to be dialed down to the normal levels (+-20%) and the damage reduced overall. Say what you will, but I think itGÇÖs pretty ridiculous you can carry three OHK nades with you that also resupply from hives.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
1269
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Posted - 2013.10.23 13:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Its not the grenades fault you're not smart enough to dual tank and instead put all your defense into one thing You do know that every precident in new eden has dual tanking being the worst possible choice for every situation. Hell there is an space on reddit that is full of dual tank fittings for eve, its called r/shitfits.
LOL at the evetards thinking that the "point and click" game's mechanics are relevant in Dust....
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
258
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aight how would you guys then react if CCP would drop all off a sudden something like a Ion grenade or plasma grenade which does 130% damage against shields and only 70% vs. armor but has the same damage stats like the regular grandes (400-500-600HP)? I think we need a 3rd grenade or revamp flux to be lethal. |
Dexter307
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
462
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Decrease blast radius by 1m Decrease damage by 100 except for sleek grenades Only 2 grenades, 1 with militia Mabey not all at once, but a mix of 2 or even just 1 of these would help. |
Ayures II
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
306
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Posted - 2013.10.23 13:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
.Racial grenades are planned for sometime in the future, IIRC. You're probably just gonna have to deal with getting blown up until the damage types spread out then. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
258
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Posted - 2013.10.23 13:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Decrease blast radius by 1m Decrease damage by 100 except for sleek grenades Only 2 grenades, 1 with militia Mabey not all at once, but a mix of 2 or even just 1 of these would help. Wouldnt work cause core locus would still deal 500hp base damage which is inreality 650HP against armor and merly 350HP against shields. Your proposed "fix" would benefit shield tankers much more cause a caldari militia suit with 2 complex extenders could survive then a core locus grenade. While my gallente gk.0 with over 600HP on armor still gets 1 hit killed. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
97
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Posted - 2013.10.23 13:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Tectonious Falcon wrote:No. Mad shield tanker right there to defend his crutch.
I'm not a shield tanker but I think the resistances that both shield and armor have are fine as they are. After the armor buff I've thought that things are pretty balanced. Taking away another major advantage to shields wouldn't be necessary. They would then only be resistant to SMG and MD and weak to everything else. I think? Someone correct me if I'm forgetting something haha. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
258
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Toby Flenderson wrote:Bright Cloud wrote:Tectonious Falcon wrote:No. Mad shield tanker right there to defend his crutch. I'm not a shield tanker but I think the resistances that both shield and armor have are fine as they are. After the armor buff I've thought that things are pretty balanced. Taking away another major advantage to shields wouldn't be necessary. They would then only be resistant to SMG and MD and weak to everything else. I think? Someone correct me if I'm forgetting something haha. Oh yeah shields are so bad the much better mobility and shield regen are not enough to compensate. And most shield users do put armor plates on to get additional HP. |
Michael Cratar
Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Tectonious Falcon wrote:No. Mad shield tanker right there to defend his crutch.
LELELE. A crutch you say? Please tell me more on how your flux grenades are more balanced? |
Dexter307
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
462
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Decrease blast radius by 1m Decrease damage by 100 except for sleek grenades Only 2 grenades, 1 with militia Mabey not all at once, but a mix of 2 or even just 1 of these would help. Wouldnt work cause core locus would still deal 500hp base damage which is inreality 650HP against armor and merly 350HP against shields. Your proposed "fix" would benefit shield tankers much more cause a caldari militia suit with 2 complex extenders could survive then a core locus grenade. While my gallente gk.0 with over 600HP on armor still gets 1 hit killed. But the explosion would be smaller and they would only have 2. Grenades should be powerful but limited. Maybe also make it so you can't get more grenades from nanohives. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
309
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Posted - 2013.10.23 13:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:BrownEye1129 wrote:Shield tank so I can melt your faces quicker with my Lazer. Different damage types are are more affect against shield or armor. It has been this way since well as long as Dust has existed. It is one of the things that seperate Dust from other FPS. You have to make a choice what your strenghts and what your weakness are. Yet this *Noob* wants to come in and complain about it. Not going to change it is a Core Mechanic of the gameplay. Except you are forgetting that Dust is incomplete. If there is a grenade that rips through armor but has difficulty going through shields, then there should also be a grenade available that does the opposite (strong against shields, weaker vs armor). This is something they probably tried doing with flux grenades, however fluxes do not balance out locus grenades because their mechanics differ entirely and thus, have different roles on the battlefield. So the choices available are not balanced which ends up screwing people over for unknowingly making the wrong decision. There is. It's a Flux Grenade. The basic ones do 1200 HP and completely wipes shields, as well as any equipment that might be on the ground at the time. (Including Remote Explosives)
A basic flux grenade & MDs can effectively wipe the enemies out completely, as well as any uplinks they have left |
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