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Blaze Ashra
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.22 17:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright, so here's the issues at play. 1. Tankers feel it's overpowered. 2. Swarm users feel that easymode AV doesn't justify being defensless to infantry. 3. Infantry doesn't like getting owned by vehicles. 4. Vehicles are expensive to use continuously, one loss sets you back 4-16 games on a decently fit vehicle. 5. Infantry it is virtually impossible to go negative unless you are running strictly prototype. 6. All AV has an effect on all vehicles, but the uniqueness should be maintained.
So as you can see there's a double standard that should be addressed and the solution is simple. Get rid of the starter fits and let swarms lock onto infantry. This would get rid of the swarm users vulnerability, infantry can kill infantry without having to worry about vehicles, every shot at infantry is one a tank doesn't have to deal with, swarms would have to finally require the activation of a few neurons to sift through targets, and everyone can be broke.
It's not balancing for isk and if it's fair for vehicles to deal with then it should be fair for infantry. This is just to hold us over until we get the assault forgeswarm masslock, of course.
P.S. Haven't seen CCP Wolfman post in a while . |
Evolution-8
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.10.22 17:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Did you know that a cow only sleeps for about 3 hours a day?
You are now enlightened. |
Blaze Ashra
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.22 17:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Evolution-8 wrote:Did you know that a cow only sleeps for about 3 hours a day?
You are now enlightened.
They also have one stomach with four chambers. People eat 3 out of the 4.
You are now enlightened and grossed out. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
844
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 17:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Swarms 514. |
Xender17
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
832
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
I actually got hit by 2 swarms in a row and it they only did about 50-60 damage. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
426
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Posted - 2013.10.22 18:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
is this because u were using hardeners? |
Xender17
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
832
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Though a version of the SL would be better. Maybe 2-3 rockets that lock on to infantry and do a max of 200 total damage. 2 per clip, 3 sec reload, 1.5-2 sec lock on. Could be a minmatar sniper rifle! awesome variant of at least. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
426
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
id rather see a free fire swam launcher instead. |
Xender17
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
833
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:is this because u were using hardeners? I was infantry. -_- All 6 of them would have hit me and done at least 1000 damage if I was an HAV. |
Justice Prevails
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lol. It would be like a fireworks show. Cool. New year's eve, don't have to take kid outside. Just turn on ps3 and keep drinking:) |
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Blaze Ashra
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Justice Prevails wrote:Lol. It would be like a fireworks show. Cool. New year's eve, don't have to take kid outside. Just turn on ps3 and keep drinking:)
Also I'll be able to play Snake and go skywriting when I use my dropship more often. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7138
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
I despise swarm launchers.
Not only does it aim for you, it tracks around all terrain and even cloaks.
Wow, what a ******* pal |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1353
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 18:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Blaze Ashra wrote:Alright, so here's the issues at play. 1. Tankers feel it's overpowered. 2. Swarm users feel that easymode AV doesn't justify being defensless to infantry. 3. Infantry doesn't like getting owned by vehicles. 4. Vehicles are expensive to use continuously, one loss sets you back 4-16 games on a decently fit vehicle. 5. Infantry it is virtually impossible to go negative unless you are running strictly prototype. 6. All AV has an effect on all vehicles, but the uniqueness should be maintained. So as you can see there's a double standard that should be addressed and the solution is simple. Get rid of the starter fits and let swarms lock onto infantry. This would get rid of the swarm users vulnerability, infantry can kill infantry without having to worry about vehicles, every shot at infantry is one a tank doesn't have to deal with, swarms would have to finally require the activation of a few neurons to sift through targets, and everyone can be broke. It's not balancing for isk and if it's fair for vehicles to deal with then it should be fair for infantry. This is just to hold us over until we get the assault forgeswarm masslock, of course. P.S. Haven't seen CCP Wolfman post in a while . No.
You are going entirely in the wrong direction!
The way to balance it is to give Tanks more health, and give AV 10 WP for every 1000 damage, so that AV can get rewarded for simply driving the tank off, rather than having it a kill or nothing scenario as it is now.
A well fitted tank should require 3 AV to kill, unless it just sits there and lets one Proto AV pound on it. A Glass Cannon fit, or a really poor fit should die much more easily.
All vehicles should have lock-on warnings, and missile launch warnings. Then it would not really matter if the missiles rendered or not.
Dropships should have counter measures such as flares, or active hardeners, that can save them if their timing is good. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
151
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Posted - 2013.10.22 18:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
I can't tell if your just poking fun, but oh well. I like swarm stuff.
Swarms used to have a dumbfire mode and they used to kill infantry very well. It was the lol noobtube that everyone disliked. A lockon infantry swarm would be worse. I'd go back to using it as my main weapon again and there would be more av on the field.
The problem with swarms is that it is an explosive weapon meant for vehicles, so if it hits infantry and doesn't one shot them from splash (like a forge does with a direct hit) the weapon makes no sense, which we also experienced when we still had dumbfire, but the splash was reduced to it's current state. So new ppl would run around trying to shoot infantry while their targets would laugh and kill them.
History (if you weren't there) 1. dumbfire/lockon (large splash and kill infantry with ease) 2 dumbfire/lockon (splash made pointless, but new ppl would use it anyways to try and kill infantry) 3 lockon only (our current state) |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
657
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Blaze Ashra wrote:Alright, so here's the issues at play. 1. Tankers feel it's overpowered. 2. Swarm users feel that easymode AV doesn't justify being defensless to infantry. 3. Infantry doesn't like getting owned by vehicles. 4. Vehicles are expensive to use continuously, one loss sets you back 4-16 games on a decently fit vehicle. 5. Infantry it is virtually impossible to go negative unless you are running strictly prototype. 6. All AV has an effect on all vehicles, but the uniqueness should be maintained. So as you can see there's a double standard that should be addressed and the solution is simple. Get rid of the starter fits and let swarms lock onto infantry. This would get rid of the swarm users vulnerability, infantry can kill infantry without having to worry about vehicles, every shot at infantry is one a tank doesn't have to deal with, swarms would have to finally require the activation of a few neurons to sift through targets, and everyone can be broke. It's not balancing for isk and if it's fair for vehicles to deal with then it should be fair for infantry. This is just to hold us over until we get the assault forgeswarm masslock, of course. P.S. Haven't seen CCP Wolfman post in a while . I have thought about this as well.
You could make the lock-on time relative to the profile of the suit, so the more dampened the suit, the longer it takes to lock on. Also, infantry are so quick that I feel they could dodge swarms fairly easily. |
Justice Prevails
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
While we're on the subject, has there ever been talk of putting swarms on dropships?
Because that combined with flares and other countermeasures would lead to some awesome aerial battles.
As infantry, I would just sit and watch and get killed a bunch (happens anyway). |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
1155
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Blaze Ashra wrote:Alright, so here's the issues at play. 1. Tankers feel it's overpowered. 2. Swarm users feel that easymode AV doesn't justify being defensless to infantry. 3. Infantry doesn't like getting owned by vehicles. 4. Vehicles are expensive to use continuously, one loss sets you back 4-16 games on a decently fit vehicle. 5. Infantry it is virtually impossible to go negative unless you are running strictly prototype. 6. All AV has an effect on all vehicles, but the uniqueness should be maintained. So as you can see there's a double standard that should be addressed and the solution is simple. Get rid of the starter fits and let swarms lock onto infantry. This would get rid of the swarm users vulnerability, infantry can kill infantry without having to worry about vehicles, every shot at infantry is one a tank doesn't have to deal with, swarms would have to finally require the activation of a few neurons to sift through targets, and everyone can be broke. It's not balancing for isk and if it's fair for vehicles to deal with then it should be fair for infantry. This is just to hold us over until we get the assault forgeswarm masslock, of course. P.S. Haven't seen CCP Wolfman post in a while . No best solution is to let all AV stay the same then give tanks a turret that auto locks on to any AV and instantly fires 6 missiles that do 280 damage each |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7141
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Justice Prevails wrote:While we're on the subject, has there ever been talk of putting swarms on dropships?
Because that combined with flares and other countermeasures would lead to some awesome aerial battles.
As infantry, I would just sit and watch and get killed a bunch (happens anyway). Tanks would literally never live if you could put swarms inside a dropship. It would actually be impossible. |
Justice Prevails
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Justice Prevails wrote:While we're on the subject, has there ever been talk of putting swarms on dropships?
Because that combined with flares and other countermeasures would lead to some awesome aerial battles.
As infantry, I would just sit and watch and get killed a bunch (happens anyway). Tanks would literally never live if you could put swarms inside a dropship. It would actually be impossible.
Good point. Maybe aerial to aerial missiles. I know the navy has specialty missiles. ship to ship, ship to air, and ship to land. Don't know much about the planes though. |
Blaze Ashra
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote: No.
You are going entirely in the wrong direction!
The way to balance it is to give Tanks more health, and give AV 10 WP for every 1000 damage, so that AV can get rewarded for simply driving the tank off, rather than having it a kill or nothing scenario as it is now.
A well fitted tank should require 3 AV to kill, unless it just sits there and lets one Proto AV pound on it. A Glass Cannon fit, or a really poor fit should die much more easily.
All vehicles should have lock-on warnings, and missile launch warnings. Then it would not really matter if the missiles rendered or not.
Dropships should have counter measures such as flares, or active hardeners, that can save them if their timing is good.
Aww, come on. Despite the vast difference in isk, sp, time, practice, micro-management, and effort between using swarms and vehicles that balance is spot on. I mean, its like you don't know how much skill is involved to take out tanks, how vulnerable we are (so lonely up here on my tower top ), or how much isk we risk in our 9 - 15 seconds quest to fill the forums with QQ? And can you imagine the nerve of some of these tankers, using tactics, retreating, ACCEPTING DEFEAT AND RECALLING TO CUT THIER LOSSES? The nerve...
Also, I was reading this thread when I thought this up. |
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