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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.18 21:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
Fair enough.
In other news how would you work this system in the context of distributing Loyalty Points with harvesters in factional warfare matches? |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:55:00 -
[62] - Quote
Well, I was thinking about a five tier capacity system for that.
Depending on the amount of recycled biomass brought aboard the MCC (nominal, low, medium, high, and very high capacity) I could see 5 LPs being awarded to each member of the team per tier. If your team filled the MCC to 'very high' capacity each player would receive +25 LPs in addition to the proposed +75 from a district defended. A perfect match would earn 100 LPs. Pretty simple. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.18 21:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
Would you do anything about the suicide harvest bonus you talked about earlier? |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
153
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Posted - 2013.10.18 22:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
I might consider letting that go for factional warfare because percentages become a little more difficult to meaningfully disperse with single digit LP numbers.
I still wonder if your willingness to sacrifice your body could still impact your standing with a faction. |
Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
100
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Posted - 2013.10.18 22:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
I'm still not sure what you are trying to achieve by creating an entirely new hacking mechanic. I think using the existing mechanic would help keep things simple and familiar, and let you focus on the other aspects of your idea which are really cool. Its just that you have some solid gold in your idea, but some parts of it are more complex than i think they need to be.
I really like the idea of mid-battle clone harvesting, being able to effect clone reserves using this. Have you considered just focusing on that aspect (ignoring the isk for now). I think the additional dynamic of clone warfare sounds very appealing. They could decrease clone count in battles to account for biomass being recycled, and now we have a very interesting two aspect war, focusing on both control points and clones.
While the isk idea is nice, i think ultimately the play we could get from making clones a second front in battles would prove to be far more interesting in the long run. Plus from just a logistics standpoint, I don't think mercs would have a need to recycle biomass mid battle for isk when they could just do it afterwards.
As a thought to the aesthetics, instead of the Biomass Harvester just hoovering up the biomass, it should be more like a drone depot. Once deployed it builds and sends out drones to collect bodies and bring them back for harvesting. Bonus points if they have hitpoints and can be shot down . Higher meta levels have longer drone control range, more drones, more drone hitpoints, drones shooting back etc. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
153
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Posted - 2013.10.19 01:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
The driving thought process behind incorporating a suicide hacking mechanic with the harvester was to play up strategic move-making and limit how often a harvester would change hands. As stated before, a player can only hack each available harvester one time per game. Additionally, this also changes the dynamics of how squads and teams communicate and organize in order to maintain placement of the right people to hold control over harvesters throughout a battle. That would be a third aspect of war, with control points, clone counts, and squad organization. Agreeably, that might just be overload. I would still like to see it nonetheless.
As for anything with drones, I love it! However, it's going to be more difficult to create roaming AI that play nice with a game system and connection speeds that are already strapped for resources. The benefit of the system I've lain out is it only introduces minimal static art assets to the mix.
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Magpie Raven
ZionTCD
227
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Posted - 2013.10.19 03:41:00 -
[67] - Quote
Love this Idea!!! +1 I had some ideas to improve on it but just about all of it has already mentioned.
I hope CCP sees this and does something about it |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
155
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Posted - 2013.10.19 04:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:IWhile the isk idea is nice, i think ultimately the play we could get from making clones a second front in battles would prove to be far more interesting in the long run. Plus from just a logistics standpoint, I don't think mercs would have a need to recycle biomass mid battle for isk when they could just do it afterwards.
I was thinking that clones would be recycled for isk after the game. I'm on the same page with you there. As for the isk ticker counter in the bottom corner of your screen--I was borrowing that mechanic from GTA 5's heists. In the context of Dust, those ticker values would continue to rise or stop depending on how many harvesters you had pumping biomass back to your team's MCC. The visual indicator of an isk figure equivalent for your current cargo load would be a pressing reminder of what is on the line if you don't win this match. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
There's where that greed angle came from. Hey, it works for me. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
Azri Sarum wrote:I really like the idea of mid-battle clone harvesting, being able to effect clone reserves using this. Have you considered just focusing on that aspect (ignoring the isk for now). I think the additional dynamic of clone warfare sounds very appealing. They could decrease clone count in battles to account for biomass being recycled, and now we have a very interesting two aspect war, focusing on both control points and clones. If we are going to focus on mid-battle clone harvesting, the mechanic that clones can only be harvested while dying in range is essential. It makes the task of refilling clone reserves a real challenge and squad based venture. The transport courier needs the help of their team to defend them while restocking in the the midst of a heavy fire encounter that is necessary to completing the job. The more clones a squad or team can kill in that zone, the faster the courier can leave with a full tank.
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Normally biomass will be transported to the MCC, however when a vehicle or foot solider is in range with the correct transport module the Harvester's protocols change and divert incoming biomass to that player. The harvester does not hold reverse biomass, so a player must wait near the harvester while soldiers are dying within its range. This also benefits teams that become redlined, and actually encourages teams to lure opposing sides out of the redline into range of the harvester so they can continue to earn bonus money or resupply troop reserves. |
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Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.19 17:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:This also benefits teams that become redlined, and actually encourages teams to lure opposing sides out of the redline into range of the harvester so they can continue to earn bonus money or resupply troop reserves. I could see where that suicide mechanic could work out here sometimes in favor of a team being temporarily redlined. If the assaulting force has used up all their opportunities to hack harvester, the redlined team still has some uncontested footholds on the field to resupply clone numbers again if they can mount a counter strike. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:The additional 10 clone carrying capacity could be a skill tree investment benefit. You receive +2 clones to overall capacity per level. I would bundle this in with the current mobile CRU operation. Honestly, I don't think I'd go anymore than 12 total capacity. That creates and incentive for multiple supply runs with multiple players, and having a medium container size conditions player not to wait terribly long next to a harvester in order to try an fully supply the canister. The obvious goal players will have is to fill a container to capacity. That might not always be for the best. If they die while carrying such a load it becomes a sizable loss to their team in the form of isk bonus that was lost.. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jadu, do you think that every additional clones should encumber the players speed slightly more? That is if we are talking about foot solider speed and not vehicles. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.19 17:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
Certainly, the weight of additional biomass should slow a player down. I don't think it should slow vehicles down. With vehicles I am thinking that certain classes of vehicles have a certain number of attachment slots to which the containers are affixed to while in transport. Logistics based vehicles would obviously have more open slots.
Containers would be exposed for the most part and have decent level of hit points before being destroyed. With what I talked about with MySpaceTom, destroyed canisters would damage a vehicle over a period of time with corrosive based attributes. That means the more biomass that container the longer contents would leak out and corrode the vehicle's integrity. This could be a 1 to 1 sec relationship, meaning a full 12 clone can would provide a 12 second area burn.
The amount of damage the corrosive burn does is up from discussion. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:57:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jadu, with the corrosive area burn thing I could see that being used toward some unintended but clever purposes. If a canister can be set down or dropped if a player runs, like it does in Mass Effect's Multiplayer, I could see a squad setting it down on an enclosed domination objective with a remote explosive placed on top of it. If an enemy red dot picks it up to move it out of the way of the terminal or tries to deactivate the RE setting on top of the canister with a bullet, both items are destroyed and the objective is now temporarily encased in a cloud of corrosive gas. This would make a hack attempt briefly perilous as stepping into the cloud would immediately begin to eat away your health.
Oh this would be amazing! |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 18:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
Neat idea but seems like an extreme amount of coding Shouldn't be a priority till atleast all weapons are implemented |
Lanius Pulvis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.10.19 19:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Well ****, I read the title and thought I was going to read about an idea for a match played inside a Dyson Sphere, as in a sphere encompassing a sun. This is a well thought out idea, +1 for that...but **** you for getting my hopes up... |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 19:40:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lanius Pulvis wrote:Well ****, I read the title and thought I was going to read about an idea for a match played inside a Dyson Sphere, as in a sphere encompassing a sun. This is a well thought out idea, +1 for that...but **** you for getting my hopes up...
Hot damn, I want to see that too. Yes, that's what a Dyson sphere really is, but I just wanted to apply the energy absorption concept to a miniature installation. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 19:44:00 -
[79] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:Neat idea but seems like an extreme amount of coding Shouldn't be a priority till atleast all weapons are implemented
Agreed. The amount of programming voodoo involved with this idea is massive. The art asset of the harvester itself is a static mesh so that helps. However, branching out with the transportable biomass container cells gets a lot more tricky, especially if you can drop them off and pick them back up. |
MySpaceTom
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.19 19:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Certainly, the weight of additional biomass should slow a player down. I don't think it should slow vehicles down. With vehicles I am thinking that certain classes of vehicles have a certain number of attachment slots to which the containers are affixed to while in transport. Logistics based vehicles would obviously have more open slots.
Containers would be exposed for the most part and have decent level of hit points before being destroyed. With what I talked about with MySpaceTom, destroyed canisters would damage a vehicle over a period of time with corrosive based attributes. That means the more biomass that container the longer contents would leak out and corrode the vehicle's integrity. This could be a 1 to 1 sec relationship, meaning a full 12 clone can would provide a 12 second area burn.
The amount of damage the corrosive burn does is up from discussion.
Some maps already use damage hazards; think the green goo you can stand in or if you land on top of the research facility reactor core. Basically, just carry over those hazard damage figures to the gas cloud. |
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Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.19 19:51:00 -
[81] - Quote
MySpaceTom, do you know how much that damage is off hand? It seems standing on the reactor core was more damaging than standing in that goo. |
MySpaceTom
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.19 19:51:00 -
[82] - Quote
Give me some time to go check that. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1121
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 20:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
This is Ghost-Approved. I feel like it really add some tactical awareness and a reason to kill yourself.
I couldn't understand the OP very well, but I got the gist of it. When the person goes up and hack the thing, and starts the suicide process, what is the clones killed in the "harvest" were transferred to the friendly team?
Example: TeammateLover123 hacks the thingy. 6 people die. And now 6 clones are added to the friendly team. It would prolong battles, and if you're able to get in behind a team and activate one, it would be a game-changer in gamemodes like Ambush, and even Skirmish, it'd be quick to clear an objective.
Also, maybe afterwards, there'd be a "Radiation Period", where enemies that enter the area start losing a set amount of HP per second, and the HP/s decreases per second? |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
156
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 21:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:I couldn't understand the OP very well, but I got the gist of it. When the person goes up and hack the thing, and starts the suicide process, what is the clones killed in the "harvest" were transferred to the friendly team?
Example: TeammateLover123 hacks the thingy. 6 people die. And now 6 clones are added to the friendly team. It would prolong battles, and if you're able to get in behind a team and activate one, it would be a game-changer in gamemodes like Ambush, and even Skirmish, it'd be quick to clear an objective.
Also, maybe afterwards, there'd be a "Radiation Period", where enemies that enter the area start losing a set amount of HP per second, and the HP/s decreases per second?
Clones are not stored within the harvester themselves. Clones are either diverted to the MCC or if a transport container courier is within range (5m) then the clones are diverted there.
What I love about your idea is the radiation period tied to a hacked harvester. What I would love to see from that is an initial high intensity gamma burst of about 450hp damage that fires out about 10m from a harvester once a hack is complete. There would be an audible rising tone signal that lets players know in the immediate area of a harvester when a suicide hack is about to complete. Opposing players and friendly teammates have the indication to abandon the area or stay and fight. However, in doing so they are likely going to die from the blast and fallout (this fallout damage being equivalent to ~50hp/s damage in the 15m radius zone).
What works about that scenario is you can have a friendly high EHP tanked suit holding the transport container next to harvester scooping up players that die from the gamma burst and the immediate fallout. The reason this tanked suit has the ability to survive the fallout is with the help of a long beam repair tool person on the periphery of the fallout zone healing the courier of most radiation damage.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.19 21:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jadek, that's really complicated. There would definitely need to be some kind of visual indication to let you know exactly how far away you are from the various kill zones. Maybe if the HUD temporarily displayed a virtual projection of colored concentric circles on the ground letting you know how close you are to this sphere of death. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 22:42:00 -
[86] - Quote
Still, you have a 'controlled' aspect of greifing with the blast and radiation system on harvesters. A friendly squad moving in to secure an enemy harvester, or a null canon objective next to a harvester by could be wiped out or crippled by the inopportune timing of a random blueberry doing a suicide hack with a very low ehp suit. At the same time, that blueberry can hack that terminal once in the match. If there are five harvesters on the battlefield, a player can only hack five times if they spread their bodies around to all five terminals.
It could simply be a case of.... LLLEEEEEERRRROOOOOYYYYY JJJJEEEEENNNNKKKINNNNNSS!!!!!!
Damn it Leroy, stick to the plan. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
3
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Posted - 2013.10.19 22:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
Hey, how does a suicide hacks and their potential greifing play into a player team kill counter? That might end particularly badly in the new factional warfare if you kill a bunch of friendlies in the initial blast wave while trying to capture that harvester. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
156
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 22:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Hey, how does a suicide hacks and their potential greifing play into a player team kill counter? That might end particularly badly in the new factional warfare if you kill a bunch of friendlies in the initial blast wave while trying to capture that harvester.
Yeah, that could be an issue. You could draw a comparison to how friendlies killed in precision strikes count against your friendly fire count. An argument could be made that while both systems give you warning sound before their area of effect damage takes effect, harvesters are stationary objects that you approach at your own risk. You have a better sense of battlefield awareness with a harvester's when a gamma blast is likely to occur. The two main red flags are the solider approaching a terminal and the subsequent sound of a player in deconstruction phase building up to a gamma blast. That should give you enough warning if you are vigilant to get out of the blast area. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
156
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 22:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
So I am saying that harvester blasts should not count against you in factional warefare. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
4
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Posted - 2013.10.19 23:11:00 -
[90] - Quote
There's some good points there, but I guess I'm still torn about this license to TK in this context. Anyhow, going back to Ghost's post on the radiation period, I could see it being set anywhere between 20 and 30 seconds. Catching that theorycrafting bug from Jadek, I'd like to play around with the idea of radiation buildup. This means that if an enemy player rehacks a harvester while in the radiation period, and subsequently another friendly player rehacks the harvester the gamma blast and radiation fallout damage increases exponentially. Also each hack adds an additional 5m - 10m to the radiation fallout zone and 20 to 30 seconds while the radiation damage cools down to zero.
With this mechanic teams involved in a violent rally of switching control of a harvester would temporarily make a section of the map no mans land.
Lore wise it makes a bit of sense that you're getting all of this radiation when fluxing around with a micro wormhole generator. |
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